Open Marriage Friends

  • Thread starter Thread starter silentfactor80
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

silentfactor80

Guest
Hey everyone,
I had a rather traumatic experience this weekend. I have 2 friends (married couple) who live a very active faith life and I have known them both for about 10 years. They are both heavily involved at Church. Both run the youth programs and serve in mass. They also are involved with parish council. They adopted 3 kids from China instead of having their own which probably saved those kids lives. They are also the kind of couple you would find praying at an abortion clinic and protesting the horrors of abortion. They also staunchly defend religious freedom and started a letter writing campaign protesting the HHS mandate.

Well, they sound like the type of people any person of faith would want to be around. The problem is this past weekend they thought airing a particular aspect of their personal life to me was a just something they had to do. They are…well…“intimate with other couples.” I couldn’t believe it and thought they were joking. They definitely are not. In a frenzy I started quoting anything I could think of about marriage but they were well prepared.

Both of them have the attitude that God made sex to be enjoyed freely by any and all. They said in the Old Testament there was no issue of polygamy / concubines. They also said Jacob’s wife gave him her servant and there was no issue of that. They also take the stance that in heaven our love for each other will mirror what it is like to be intimate with each other in this life. WEIRD! They said that if people weren’t prideful and selfish, jealousy wouldn’t be an issue. They feel that no one truly “owns another” because God ransomed all of us. They use Jesus’ words about not marrying in heaven as a case for not getting so attached to one person. They think being attached to one person is borderline idolatry and that we should be willing to render our loved ones to God freely and joyfully confident others have their intimate needs covered. They said they are joyful knowing that if something happened to either of them the several couples they are intimate with take care of the surviving spouse.

I quoted them the “what God has joined let no man put asunder” line. They said I don’t understand what it is saying. They claim that they never “put each other asunder” and that their prime commitment is and always will be to the other. Needless to say there was nothing I could say that even stumped them. I don’t really care to bring the issue up with them again but if this was one of you how would you handle this?

The only thing I got them on is the pregnancy issue. They are both sterilized which is obviously against Church teaching. Their only counter was that the Church does not require people who got sterilized to reverse it and that is a double standard in their opinion. I have to say I am really shocked at them but these days maybe not.
 
silentfactor80 said:
Hey everyone,
I had a rather traumatic experience this weekend. I have 2 friends (married couple) who live a very active faith life and I have known them both for about 10 years. They are both heavily involved at Church. Both run the youth programs and serve in mass. They also are involved with parish council. They adopted 3 kids from China instead of having their own which probably saved those kids lives. They are also the kind of couple you would find praying at an abortion clinic and protesting the horrors of abortion. They also staunchly defend religious freedom and started a letter writing campaign protesting the HHS mandate.

Well, they sound like the type of people any person of faith would want to be around. The problem is this past weekend they thought airing a particular aspect of their personal life to me was a just something they had to do. They are…well…“intimate with other couples.” I couldn’t believe it and thought they were joking. They definitely are not. In a frenzy I started quoting anything I could think of about marriage but they were well prepared.

Both of them have the attitude that God made sex to be enjoyed freely by any and all. They said in the Old Testament there was no issue of polygamy / concubines. They also said Jacob’s wife gave him her servant and there was no issue of that. They also take the stance that in heaven our love for each other will mirror what it is like to be intimate with each other in this life. WEIRD! They said that if people weren’t prideful and selfish, jealousy wouldn’t be an issue. They feel that no one truly “owns another” because God ransomed all of us. They use Jesus’ words about not marrying in heaven as a case for not getting so attached to one person. They think being attached to one person is borderline idolatry and that we should be willing to render our loved ones to God freely and joyfully confident others have their intimate needs covered. They said they are joyful knowing that if something happened to either of them the several couples they are intimate with take care of the surviving spouse.

I quoted them the “what God has joined let no man put asunder” line. They said I don’t understand what it is saying. They claim that they never “put each other asunder” and that their prime commitment is and always will be to the other. Needless to say there was nothing I could say that even stumped them. I don’t really care to bring the issue up with them again but if this was one of you how would you handle this?

The only thing I got them on is the pregnancy issue. They are both sterilized which is obviously against Church teaching. Their only counter was that the Church does not require people who got sterilized to reverse it and that is a double standard in their opinion. I have to say I am really shocked at them but these days maybe not.
Click to expand...
Oh. my. heck. I am speechless. :eek:

I would email Dr. Ray Guarendi (he has a show on ewtn and on Catholic radio) and ask his advice.

I am going to say a prayer for you right now! I bet you are shaking inside and out. I would be.

btw - good for you for using the bible to refute their actions! I probably would have run away (and I don’t scare easily!)
 
They’re telling you that nothing they are doing is contrary to the teaching of the Church? :hmmm: :eek: :banghead:

Show them this. (Emphasis mine.)

The Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I approved 25 June last and the publication of which I today order by virtue of my Apostolic Authority, is a statement of the Church’s faith and of catholic doctrine, attested to or illumined by Sacred Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church’s Magisterium. I declare it to be a sure norm for teaching the faith and thus a valid and legitimate instrument for ecclesial communion.
    • Apostolic Constitution, Fidei Depositum, On The Publication Of The Catechism Of The Catholic Church; Prepared Following The Second Vatican Ecumenical Council. John Paul, Bishop, Servant Of The Servants Of God, For Everlasting Memory
2380 **Adultery **refers to marital infidelity. When two partners, of whom at least one is married to another party, have sexual relations - even transient ones - they commit adultery. Christ condemns even adultery of mere desire.171 The sixth commandment and the New Testament forbid adultery absolutely.172 The prophets denounce the gravity of adultery; they see it as an image of the sin of idolatry.173

And, I agree, this should be reported to the priest.
 
Talk about hypocrites. Yes, you should definetly talk to your pastor. They have no business working with youth.
 
silentfactor80 said:
Hey everyone,
I had a rather traumatic experience this weekend. I have 2 friends (married couple) who live a very active faith life and I have known them both for about 10 years. They are both heavily involved at Church. Both run the youth programs and serve in mass. They also are involved with parish council. They adopted 3 kids from China instead of having their own which probably saved those kids lives. They are also the kind of couple you would find praying at an abortion clinic and protesting the horrors of abortion. They also staunchly defend religious freedom and started a letter writing campaign protesting the HHS mandate.

Well, they sound like the type of people any person of faith would want to be around. The problem is this past weekend they thought airing a particular aspect of their personal life to me was a just something they had to do. They are…well…“intimate with other couples.” I couldn’t believe it and thought they were joking. They definitely are not. In a frenzy I started quoting anything I could think of about marriage but they were well prepared.

Both of them have the attitude that God made sex to be enjoyed freely by any and all. They said in the Old Testament there was no issue of polygamy / concubines. They also said Jacob’s wife gave him her servant and there was no issue of that. They also take the stance that in heaven our love for each other will mirror what it is like to be intimate with each other in this life. WEIRD! They said that if people weren’t prideful and selfish, jealousy wouldn’t be an issue. They feel that no one truly “owns another” because God ransomed all of us. They use Jesus’ words about not marrying in heaven as a case for not getting so attached to one person. They think being attached to one person is borderline idolatry and that we should be willing to render our loved ones to God freely and joyfully confident others have their intimate needs covered. They said they are joyful knowing that if something happened to either of them the several couples they are intimate with take care of the surviving spouse.

I quoted them the “what God has joined let no man put asunder” line. They said I don’t understand what it is saying. They claim that they never “put each other asunder” and that their prime commitment is and always will be to the other. Needless to say there was nothing I could say that even stumped them. I don’t really care to bring the issue up with them again but if this was one of you how would you handle this?

The only thing I got them on is the pregnancy issue. They are both sterilized which is obviously against Church teaching. Their only counter was that the Church does not require people who got sterilized to reverse it and that is a double standard in their opinion. I have to say I am really shocked at them but these days maybe not.
Click to expand...
Your friends are hypocrites.
Their involvement in parish councils and youth movements is hypocrisy.

In fact I would go as far to say that they should be removed from involvement with the parish on every level unless and until they rectify their views and behaviour regarding “open marriages”.
 
They’re not just hypocrits. They’re also 100% SICK.

The fact that they do all this “Parish Stuff” just goes to show all of us how deeply Satan, and his lies, can infuse those around us.

In addition, be careful. Morality is a seemless web…where someone is this perverted (and they are perverted, no matter what they say), they will likely also lie or commit other misdeeds. What are you going to say when the Pastor confronts them…and they lie and say you’ve made this up?
 
Steinway said:
Make sure you count the kids when they leave the youth group.
Click to expand...
That’s disgusting. Just because this couple may enjoy being sexual with other adult couples doesn’t mean they’re in to pedophilia.

No, I don’t agree with couples that swing. I don’t see how it doesn’t cause issues within their own marriage and frankly, it’s just yuck. I also don’t think that they should be leading the youth group if they’re so open with their alternative lifestyle. That said…I wouldn’t just yank them out of their leadership role; finding replacements first would be a requirement. I’d also talk to your parish priest to get guidance on what you, if anything, should be doing.
 
I’m sorry, takers, I disagree with your comment about the need to find replacements for their leadership role before “yanking them.”

Although it’s not up to OP to “yank them,” and the OP likely lacks the authority to do so even if OP could, sometimes “no leadership,” temporarily, is better than bad leadership.
 
This is one of those threads that I’d normally read and question the veracity of the OP. However, I knew a couple like this when I was younger. They were very active at our parish, involved in every group and committee possible, were boy/girl scout troop leaders, led their daughter’s youth group and hosted regular Bible studies in their home. As it turned out, once the non-regulars left, the Bible studies turned into fish bowl/car key parties. I didn’t know this about them until years later, but it’s something I would definitely bring to the attention of my priest if I knew were going on now.
 
I’m also curious why they decided to tell you at this time.

I’m not sure I would bother trying to convince them. They’ll believe what they want to believe. The story of the prodigal son, however, jumps to my mind. I can see someone equally using that story to say, See, there’s no problem with partying away your father’s inheritance! When you finish, just go on home and your father will throw another party for you. Likewise, I don’t really see the point of the story of Leah and Jacob as saying, “No problem, have sex with anyone you like!” Notice Leah and Jacob are not out…uh…*partying *with another couple. :ehh: And if they really want to take it seriously, notice it’s only the man who gets to have sex outside his marriage, and only then, to bear children, sort of surrogate children for his wife by her servants. I take it your friends are not limiting their extra-marital sex to the husband, nor doing it in order to have more children.

And I have to agree with whoever said: regardless of what they think the Bible says, it is clearly not within the teachings of the Catholic Church to have sex with other couples.
 
Monicad said:
I would seek pastoral advice on whether or not a couple actively engaged in open adultery without regret should be running the youth program. Granted, everyone is a sinner but living an open active lifestyle like this is horrible and calls into question their devotion to the church and her teachings. Having them teaching vulnerable youth when they flatly disregard the church’s most basic teachings on marriage fidelity is a problem.

Something confusing to me is why they confided this to you in the first place. Most people I know don’t reveal something so personal unless they beleive the person that they are telling is receptive or open to what they are telling them. A couple that is practicing open adultery is unlikely to reveal that to a devout Catholic that would freak out about hearing the news…but then again maybe I am way off base, this just sounds so bizarre to me. God bless you please be assured of my prayers.
Click to expand...
Not just the youth group, the parish council as well and any other ministry in the parish ASAP.

I’m curious too, why the need to disclose the information? Shock value? Recruiting more people in their group? Do they want to be found out?
 
takers said:
That’s disgusting. Just because this couple may enjoy being sexual with other adult couples doesn’t mean they’re in to pedophilia.
Click to expand...
Actually, I would not trust them with youth. If they already have a perverse view of sexuality (and they do), then how do you know their misconstrue does not extend to condoning sex out side of marriage for “consenting” youth (e.g. teens)? If it does, then all other arguments they were using could be applied.

I would contact your pastor ASAP and not give up on this until something is done.
 
I agree with the poster who wouldn’t trust them with the youth. It is very likely - or it SHOULD be likely - that the topic of sexual morality would occasionally come up in a Catholic youth group. I can’t imagine trusting the guidance that these people would give to the kids. Whether they are innocently setting boundaries that are inappropriate, or intentionally sharing their distorted interpretations of the Bible with the kids, it is dangerous. Furthermore, if they have found a way to justify the swingers lifestyle in the Bible, what are the odds that they also justify including youth in their exploits? After all, teens in Biblical times were married and sexually active, weren’t they? I would be very concerned that they have another perversion in their closet that they haven’t told you about, and I would not want them involved with kids at all. I would definitely speak to the pastor about this, but in the back of my mind, I’d be thinking that this is serious enough of an issue for me to want actual evidence (like a taped conversation) so it’s not just he-said, she-said.
 
Gordon_Sims said:
This is one of those threads that I’d normally read and question the veracity of the OP. However, I knew a couple like this when I was younger. They were very active at our parish, involved in every group and committee possible, were boy/girl scout troop leaders, led their daughter’s youth group and hosted regular Bible studies in their home. As it turned out, once the non-regulars left, the Bible studies turned into fish bowl/car key parties. I didn’t know this about them until years later, but it’s something I would definitely bring to the attention of my priest if I knew were going on now.
Click to expand...
Thanks everyone for your advice here. I think what this guy said pretty much sums up my experience. Wolves in sheep clothing???

Why would they tell me? I honestly don’t know why they decided to say something. I have been close friends with them for years and introduced them to each other. They didn’t really drop this bomb randomly either. We were talking about a post to one of those Dear Abby columns that was similar to what to they told me. I said I didn’t believe people actually do that for a number of reason (i.e. disease, pregnancy, emotional attachment, etc). That is when they gave me the “welllll…you know” look and got a “we do that.” Everything went down hill from there. Perhaps they are just too comfortable to be airing their personal lives with me. Like kids say these days, TMI (too much info).

I don’t know if I should say something. Accusing someone of something without proof is not a good thing. The only “proof” I have is a he said she said thing. This would be a pretty serious accusation.
 
silentfactor80 said:
I don’t know if I should say something. Accusing someone of something without proof is not a good thing. The only “proof” I have is a he said she said thing. This would be a pretty serious accusation.
Click to expand...
No, I’m sorry… they’re involved with parish life and with youth groups. At the very least they are causing scandal to those who know about their lifestyle and know they are involved in church. Among those who know, there is an understanding that it’s all okay. That scandalizes the church and the faith.

Something needs to be said.
 
silentfactor80 said:
Thanks everyone for your advice here. I think what this guy said pretty much sums up my experience. Wolves in sheep clothing???

Why would they tell me? I honestly don’t know why they decided to say something. I have been close friends with them for years and introduced them to each other. They didn’t really drop this bomb randomly either. We were talking about a post to one of those Dear Abby columns that was similar to what to they told me. I said I didn’t believe people actually do that for a number of reason (i.e. disease, pregnancy, emotional attachment, etc). That is when they gave me the “welllll…you know” look and got a “we do that.” Everything went down hill from there. Perhaps they are just too comfortable to be airing their personal lives with me. Like kids say these days, TMI (too much info).

I don’t know if I should say something. Accusing someone of something without proof is not a good thing. The only “proof” I have is a he said she said thing. This would be a pretty serious accusation.
Click to expand...
This is the column we were talking about BTW…GROSSSSSSS!!! news.yahoo.com/sister-open-marriage-takes-sharing-too-far-050021131.html
 
Em_in_FL said:
No, I’m sorry… they’re involved with parish life and with youth groups. At the very least they are causing scandal to those who know about their lifestyle and know they are involved in church. Among those who know, there is an understanding that it’s all okay. That scandalizes the church and the faith.

Something needs to be said.
Click to expand...
OK, but how does one go about this issue without creating a “he/said she/said” thing? I saw someone suggested secretly taping them but that feels wrong. Or is it? Eugh…why me!!
 
silentfactor80 said:
OK, but how does one go about this issue without creating a “he/said she/said” thing? I saw someone suggested secretly taping them but that feels wrong. Or is it? Eugh…why me!!
Click to expand...
That’s why you need to talk to your priest ASAP.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top