Open Thread for the Synod on the Family

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Eternal_One said:
This Synod has been nothing but debates on remarried divorcees receiving communion, homosexuality, and cohabitating couples – things which many posters on here kept assuring would only be a small part of this Synod. Turns out thats all this Synod was about.
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The disappointment runs high, but let’s wait until Saturday after the voting of the final version. On another thread a poster succinctly pointed out the fact that sin had been mentioned no where in the working document, only alluded to. Since this poster was in an irregular situation and besieged with much temptation, the absence of any depth of spiritual encouragement, along with the struggle to understand the controversy, was very disheartening.
 
More thoughts on the ambiguity and misinterpretation:
IR (Interim Report) seems to be suggesting—amazingly enough—that cohabitation, and other irregular situations are part of the historically unfolding path of marriage, albeit in an “incomplete and imperfect way” (IR §20). Analogously, IR suggests that the path to marriage in an individual’s life may similarly unfold. But how can cohabitation be a “path to marriage” when it is itself not a good relationship, but merely a sinful one—when viewed from the order of God’s normative intent for marriage—albeit that it also includes some good values? Don’t polygamy and same-sex relationships also often include kindness and sacrifice? But they are not ordered to the good of marriage.
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crisismagazine.com/2014/synods-interim-report-ambiguity-misinterpretation
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Tigg said:
More thoughts on the ambiguity and misinterpretation:
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Seems like the liberal abusers of Vatican II are still hard at work.

Oh, how I hope that the apparent re-awakening of fervent orthodoxy in many areas of the Church can transform it soon! If not, I think we will find that Liberalism is the new Arian Heresy, something the Church had to fight for hundreds of years before it was stamped out.

It hurts me to see the damage such liberalism does. Western culture has fallen so far, become so depraved, that for even some of the Church hierarchy to be so willing to cave to it is extremely disheartening. They would make the Church complicit in the destruction of humanity and faith, rather than the saving beacon of hope that it is meant to be, the sure light in the storm of cultural chaos.

Unfortunately, I am seeing more and more the wisdom of Pope Benedict’s statements that the Church may become smaller yet–but more faithful. THAT would be more desirable than a larger Church filled with more confusion, more faithlessness, more obstinacy in sin calling what is evil good and ignoring what is true.

While we should all want more people in the Church, getting treatment from the “hospital for sinners,” what good is that treatment if it is too often dispensing the same poison, spreading the same disease found outside its walls? Better to exercise some triage, have the “doctors and nurses” (clergy and laity) get the treatment right so as to be able to aid those who come and serve as a beacon of hope for those outside who are truly willing to accept the cure. More souls are saved in the latter case.
 
Ed Morrissey’s report this morning:

Cardinal Marx responded to one question about the apparent rejection of Kasper’s proposal by saying there was no proposal — just a need to raise the question. German bishops heard plenty of feedback on the remarried and the Eucharist, Marx argued, which they raised in the synod in good faith. Marx seemed satisfied that the discussion took place, and that the church has to get away from a black-and-white approach to the issue. At one point, referring to remarried Catholics and the Eucharist, Marx said that treating them like “second-class Christians” is unthinkable. “Exclusion is not the language of the Church,” Marx insisted. Marx also argued that doctrine develops, that it is not fixed, and the synodal process is one way in which it advances.

He took the same approach with same-sex relationships. Marx went into a discussion about a particular couple whose experience he knew, where one longtime partner was caring for another during a long illness, and said that demonstrated the complexity of human relations that the church has to at least address in its nuances. That’s a different situation than with someone who has a different partner every day, regardless of the orientation, and the church should have different approaches that recognizes the distinctions. He is “convinced” that the church needs “new moral language.”

If the signals over the last couple of days pan out as they appear, Marx may end up disappointed. According to one source, the synod is leaning more toward Pell than Marx and Kasper, although still looking for ways to express the welcoming embrace of the Catholic Church while applying its current teachings more effectively. They seem — at least for now — to be looking for ways to emphasize current teaching as the ideal of beauty and truth in family life to which all should aspire and to which the Catholic Church needs to guide people, rather than to innovate on doctrine and practice in those regards. But we won’t really know how they will turn until they produce the final relatio, which is itself a transitional guidepost for the next year as bishops around the world apply it and prepare for the ordinary synod in 2015 that will finalize this effort.

hotair.com/archives/2014/10/17/synod-diary-home-stretch-the-german-defense-and-wheres-waldo/
 
Michael1978 said:
:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:
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Why is that shocking? Doctrine does develop. Look at the Marian dogmas. The Immaculate Conception is not explicitly found in Scripture. It developed over time. Of course, this doesn’t mean the deposit of faith changes. Doctrine develops but does not change.

I note the article there does not directly quote Cardinal Marx but have only paraphrased him. I wonder what his actual words were.
 
How can Doctrine develop if public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle?

Even if it can somehow develop, it can only do so without contradicting past developments.
 
Genesis315 said:
See Chapter 23 here from St. Vincent:

newadvent.org/fathers/3506.htm
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Wonderful reference. Thank you for posting the link. I particularly like this section of Chapter 23:
For if once this license of impious fraud be admitted, I dread to say in how great danger religion will be of being utterly destroyed and annihilated. For if any one part of Catholic truth be given up, another, and another, and another will thenceforward be given up as a matter of course, and the several individual portions having been rejected, what will follow in the end but the rejection of the whole? On the other hand, if what is new begins to be mingled with what is old, foreign with domestic, profane with sacred, the custom will of necessity creep on universally, till at last the Church will have nothing left untampered with, nothing unadulterated, nothing sound, nothing pure; but where formerly there was a sanctuary of chaste and undefiled truth, thenceforward there will be a brothel of impious and base errors. May God’s mercy avert this wickedness from the minds of his servants; be it rather the frenzy of the ungodly.
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Joe_5859 said:
Why is that shocking? Doctrine does develop. Look at the Marian dogmas. The Immaculate Conception is not explicitly found in Scripture. It developed over time. Of course, this doesn’t mean the deposit of faith changes. Doctrine develops but does not change.

I note the article there does not directly quote Cardinal Marx but have only paraphrased him. I wonder what his actual words were.
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Correct, Joe, but **those who continually post that “teaching can change” **do not understand this. Authentic development of doctrine can ONLY give a fuller “vision” to what has previously and unerringly been taught. It always proceeds along consistent lines. It never means abandonment of doctrine, or the substitution of new doctrine for the old, and it never means that what the Church once taught, can ever be denied. (From the Catechism, The Teachings of Christ)

This is why the radical nature of what has been proposed, (if reports are true) is so alarming to those who have the mind of the Church. She has always taught that Sacred *Tradition *is inseparably linked with the Scriptures themselves - that they form one sacred deposit of the word of God. It is being said in certain circles that if the Church wants to accept Kaspar’s proposal (communion for remarried/divorced) it will depart from much of what has always been understood about sacramental theology and further, they have a problem if they term it *discipline *since much of discipline expresses the doctrine itself.
 
I apologize beforehand if this was brought up already, but what would it take for the decision of the Synod to develop into infallibility?

From an outside point of view, it seems like the Church can’t even decide what is “correct”, and the “liberal” side will pick and choose whichever translation/version that best fits their agenda to be like, “See, the Church is changing! We are slowly winning!”

From another thread, it was mentioned that the Synod will not be infallible.

So who/what is to stop the Magisterium (or whoever is in charge of this sort of thing) to make a dogmatic decision that is final and binding?

Can the pope assert his infallibility with the final decision?

I trust that the Church will not be led astray…but there have been instances in history where some religious leaders were in error…
 
Don’t get carried away with all the hype the press is putting out. What they are discussing is pastoral practices, not dogmatic teachings of the Church. It would take either a council (like the Second Vatican Council) or a decree from the Pope to make anything they are talking about a dogma. It isn’t likely to happen because what they are talking about isn’t changing anything in faith or morals, just the methods the Church uses as we teach our faith and morals. Again, they are not talking about changing any dogmas.
 
Dear friends: As the Synod votes this afternoon on the final “relatio,” pray hard for the guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 
The bishops are voting on the final Rialto now. There will be a press conference to announce it in about two and a half hours. Please pray to the Holy Spirit to guide them.

I am sure it will be fine. Remember it is meant to start a year of discussion which will result in recommendations to the Holy Father after the next synod in October 2015. Nothing in this is final.

I heard that the drafting committee was unanimous in agreeing with what they came up with.
 
EIF5A said:
I apologize beforehand if this was brought up already, but what would it take for the decision of the Synod to develop into infallibility?

From an outside point of view, it seems like the Church can’t even decide what is “correct”, and the “liberal” side will pick and choose whichever translation/version that best fits their agenda to be like, “See, the Church is changing! We are slowly winning!”

From another thread, it was mentioned that the Synod will not be infallible.

So who/what is to stop the Magisterium (or whoever is in charge of this sort of thing) to make a dogmatic decision that is final and binding?

Can the pope assert his infallibility with the final decision?

I trust that the Church will not be led astray…but there have been instances in history where some religious leaders were in error…
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The Pope is protected by the Holy Spirit from teaching error in regards to faith and morals issues. As for the synod, it is different to a council. It is more of a brainstorming session with the view of formulating better pastoral approaches to current situations happening within parish communities and families.

These issues are being especially addressed against the canvas of the ‘law of graduality’. This is actually a natural truth which has been lost to our culture of ‘disposable’ and ‘replaceable’. Graduality appreciates the growth of a soul over time and with encouragement and charity rather than what has come to be seen as ‘stop sinning and we’ll let you in our group’ type of mentality.

So that is what the synod is examining. How can we accommodate this gradual incremental growth in the soul, without tacitly condoning sin. There is a way and by the light of the Holy Spirit and if the white noise of Chicken Littlers can be kept at bay… an inspired pastoral solution will come into the light.
 
.@pontifex called for publishing vote count for each section of #Synod14 fina
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523525337028644864
Highest number of negative votes for sections 52, 53, 55 and 41 in #Synod14 final report
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523525699185823744
Least-voted sections in #Synod14 final report about Communion question, homosexuality, civil marriage and cohabitation
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523526141559070721
.@FatherRosica says @pontifex’s closing #Synod14 speech denounced rigidity among traditionalists among others
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523526426293596161
.@FatherRosica says @pontifex also denounced coming down from the cross just to please people
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523526607302963200
#Synod14 final report quotes 2003 document stating "absolutely no grounds” for calling same-sex unions "even remotely analogous” to marriage
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523527247899017216
Three sections of #Synod14 report — on Communion for divorced and civilly remarried, and on homosexuality — not approved by 2/3 majority
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523528026219241472
Vatican spokesman says that, since #Synod14 final report has no doctrinal authority, vote counts just indicators of “maturity” discussion
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523528276627574785
Sec. 52 says Communion issue requires further study, with consideration of mitigating psychic and social factors in particular cases
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523530302237310976
Vatican spokesman says 2/3 majority usual measure of consensus of synod
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twitter.com/CatholicNewsSvc/status/523530693666553857
 
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