G
gilliam
Guest
After the Synod, Pope Francis returns home, alone and on foot
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Loved it. I also understand Cardinal Erdo will lead the direction of the talks. He’s a key player.Here is the full text of Card. Erdo’s opening speech for the Synod:
zenit.org/en/articles/synod14-full-text-of-cardinal-erdo-s-report-prior-to-discussion
I loved it too.Loved it. I also understand Cardinal Erdo will lead the direction of the talks. He’s a key player.
This IMO seems to be the central point of the statement. I presume it’s been translated correctly. It implies the Church should be a follower rather than a moral leader. Just because the world couldn’t accept the Church’s position on ABC, for example, should that mean the Church should abandon its position on that? And we can go down the list. This is not what is meant by pastoral.If the Church does not listen to the world, the world will not listen to the Church.
I agree, Jesus had no problem calling people “vipers” and “Satan” right to their faces.This IMO seems to be the central point of the statement. I presume it’s been translated correctly. It implies the Church should be a follower rather than a moral leader. Just because the world couldn’t accept the Church’s position on ABC, for example, should that mean the Church should abandon its position on that? And we can go down the list. This is not what is meant by pastoral.
Personally, I can’t see this as the Gospel of Christ we should be preaching. Christ wasn’t that kind to moneychangers, scandalists, and the like.
If you look at the context, I don’t think that’s what they are going for. It’s not about listening to the world as though the world can help the Church correct and change what has been divinely revealed.This IMO seems to be the central point of the statement. I presume it’s been translated correctly. It implies the Church should be a follower rather than a moral leader. Just because the world couldn’t accept the Church’s position on ABC, for example, should that mean the Church should abandon its position on that? And we can go down the list. This is not what is meant by pastoral.
Personally, I can’t see this as the Gospel of Christ we should be preaching. Christ wasn’t that kind to moneychangers, scandalists, and the like.
Agree. And what always unnerves and irritates me about this new “openness” and “tolerance” is that it is, in fact, so old. I have heard these arguments from liberals **ALL MY LIFE. **I agree, Jesus had no problem calling people “vipers” and “Satan” right to their faces.
Also, how does this jive with all the calls for open discussion? It looks like:
“Speak your mind, being open, honest and frank… using only this specific, pre-approved language”.
Okay. Pope Paul had two-way conversations with moral theologists on the subject of ABC. In fact there was more than one vote taken on (and for) the measure. But what good did that do in the end except to harden the pro-ABC’s position against the Pope? We must be careful when we do things for the sake of being “pastoral” about them. They can have extreme unintended consequences.If you look at the context, I don’t think that’s what they are going for. It’s not about listening to the world as though the world can help the Church correct and change what has been divinely revealed.
But that doesn’t mean there is not room for a two-way conversation. Listening doesn’t mean the Church listens indiscriminately to the loudest talking heads on the furthest edges of the spectrum. It means listening to where people are at, how they are thinking, which will enable us to better articulate revelation to that audience.
I don’t know that that is the best comparison. He wasn’t dialoguing with “the world”, he was asking for moral theologians to reflect on the issue and give him (name removed by moderator)ut.Okay. Pope Paul had two-way conversations with moral theologists on the subject of ABC. In fact there was more than one vote taken on (and for) the measure. But what good did that do in the end except to harden the pro-ABC’s position against the Pope? We must be careful when we do things for the sake of being “pastoral” about them. They can have extreme unintended consequences.
I sincerely hope you are right. But I feel like this is the guy saying “calm down” while the flames engulf the theater and your popcorn starts melting…I found this article about the Synod that I think is a great perspective:
Let’s Be Realistic About the Synod
The basic premise is we would all be better off ignoring the rumor mill that has arisen in the media around the Synod.![]()
Well, to borrow and modify your metaphor (I sincerely hope you are right. But I feel like this is the guy saying “calm down” while the flames engulf the theater and your popcorn starts melting…I’ve only really been engaged in the Catholic Church for about 15 years - I’ve never seen anything like this. Or heard the Pope and various bishops take such public stances about re-interpreting the Gospel. I would urge caution against too much complacency. I would be surprised if any changes occur now; they will occur in 2016. This is the start of a long project. Just my opinion. How long will the conservative bishops last? (To be clear, conservative to me here is not a political term, it implies adherence to the truth of the Gospel and the doctrine of the Church; it is a compliment.) Who will replace them? This isn’t panicking; it’s a serious, responsible assessment of the situation.