Open Thread on Zimmerman Trial

[MaryT777]

I didn’t say he was a police officer. But, he was trying to watch out for his neighbors and noticed someone behaving in a suspicious manner and called that in. He was told to stop following said person. He said he was doing that when he was attacked. If what he said is true, I don’t see his actions as unreasonable, though the outcome is horrific. Will his claims be proven in court? I don’t know.

It seems most experts believe there’s enough reasonable doubt he will be acquitted.
The sad fact is his life will be forever changed no matter what the outcome.
Look at Casey Anthony. She’s innocent but lives in hiding.

Some people don’t care what the courts say.

 

[MaryT777]

Jonathan Good.

But I did not say he witnessed the whole fight. You just brought that part up in this post.
Are we trying to move the goal posts? If so, you should know that it indicative of a weak argument.
You went from a witness to the beating to a witness that “witnessed the whole thing”.

Pretty slick if no one is paying attention.
Perhaps you inadvertently omitted the “whole fight” earlier…

Thanks, I will read his testimony, I may have missed his.

 

[MaryT777]

Jonathan Good.

But I did not say he witnessed the whole fight. You just brought that part up in this post.
Are we trying to move the goal posts? If so, you should know that it indicative of a weak argument.
You went from a witness to the beating to a witness that “witnessed the whole thing”.

Pretty slick if no one is paying attention.
Perhaps you inadvertently omitted the “whole fight” earlier…

Jonathan Good said he saw Martin straddling Zimmerman but never saw ANYONE’s head being slammed into the sidewalk.

 

[vz71]

Jonathan Good said he saw Martin straddling Zimmerman but never saw ANYONE’s head being slammed into the sidewalk.

Moving the goal posts again.

Good did not mention this. The physician assistant that treated Zimmerman indicated the head was pounded into concrete multiple times.

 

[MaryT777]

Moving the goal posts again.

Good did not mention this. The physician assistant that treated Zimmerman indicated the head was pounded into concrete multiple times.

Right. She wasn’t there though to see what transpired beginning to end. She noted as well that had treated Zimmerman before and he said he’s been involved with mixed martial arts several times a week.

You might wonder how afraid he could have been given he had been following Martin and had to note he wasn’t a big guy to begin with.

 

[Dawnia]

Dawnia,
Was it not you who said "is it too much trouble or work " or something like that if you are being followed to call…

I find it bizarre people following people around in the neighborhood. How strange.

When you call the police to report being followed, it is rather strange to give them irrelevant information such as “I’ve got ice tea and skittles”. They want to know where you are and if you can get to safety. Answering that you’re walking in the rain as the reason behind someone following you is likely to get you not taken seriously.

I don’t think it’s unusual at all for people to follow strangers in their neighborhood (from a safe distance) to make sure they aren’t up to no good. Especially after there had been a number of break-ins in the area.

 

[MaryT777]

When you call the police to report being followed, it is rather strange to give them irrelevant information such as “I’ve got ice tea and skittles”. They want to know where you are and if you can get to safety. Answering that you’re walking in the rain as the reason behind someone following you is likely to get you not taken seriously.

I don’t think it’s unusual at all for people to follow strangers in their neighborhood (from a safe distance) to make sure they aren’t up to no good. Especially after there had been a number of break-ins in the area.

Have you called the police before because you were followed. I haven’t so I have no clue what the dispatcher would ask me. Probably ask for a description of myself.

What’s no good? Walking in the rain slowly. That’s the problem when people take the law into their own hands. They get hyped up for the robberies that have happened and they are not trained to deal with this type of emotion and situation. That’s why police officers are trained. Unless people believe anyone can do the job of one without training.
I don’t think so myself.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Right. She wasn’t there though to see what transpired beginning to end. She noted as well that had treated Zimmerman before and he said he’s been involved with mixed martial arts several times a week. …

Agreed. That is what she testified.

…You might wonder how afraid he could have been given he had been following Martin and had to note he wasn’t a big guy to begin with.

Martin was 6’3" 160 pounds and Zimmerman was 5’9" and I’m guessing ~170. I’ve read that since Martin’s death, Zimmerman has gained about 100 pounds. He had been heavy, then he had gotten to a healthier weight by 2-26-12, now he is heavier again.

 

[vz71]

You might wonder how afraid he could have been given he had been following Martin and had to note he wasn’t a big guy to begin with.

Why would I wonder that?
The gunshot did not happen until after the beating started. It would be reasonable to conclude the beating made him afraid for his life.
Otherwise the gun would have been introduced much earlier in the story.

 

[estesbob]

Are you kidding me? Anyone unknown to Zimmerman is suspicious and can be followed to “see what they were doing?” Good grief.

No further dialogue needed now.

Your view is well known on more than one thread.

Why do you believe Zimmerman shot Martin?

 

[Honorius]

In my opinion it doesn’t really matter what happened. At best it is a he said he said situation, except that one of the parties is dead. Sure, Zimmerman was probably wrong for following Martin, but you can’t be put in jail for following someone you think is suspicious when you are in the neighborhood watch. No matter what is said, there is still no real way of knowing beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman attacked Martin, and in America that equals not guilty.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Hard to say. I might think personally that if one was so injured they had to kill someone they might need to be evaluated in a hospital. This really wasn’t an athlete. This was an
injury so bad that someone feared for their life.

My second thought is you might be not just injured but shaken up by the entire issue.

Those are personal opinions of course.

Again, it was not the seriousness of the injuries that would be a justification for self-defense. It is the fear of imminent serious bodily harm that could be suffered in the immediate future.

If someone is about to swing an axe at you, you do not have to wait for it to hit and actually have life threatening injuries before you can defend yourself. You act on the fear of the injuries your are liable to sustain.

As I stated before-- it is possible that Zimmerman rushed Martin, Martin did not have to wait to suffer serious injuries to justify self-defense. The fact that he managed to get on top of Zimmerman without suffering injuries is not an indication he wasn’t acting in self-defense.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Agreed. That is what she testified.

Martin was 6’3" 160 pounds and Zimmerman was 5’9" and I’m guessing ~170. I’ve read that since Martin’s death, Zimmerman has gained about 100 pounds. He had been heavy, then he had gotten to a healthier weight by 2-26-12, now he is heavier again.

Actually, according to the autopsy report Martin was 5’ 11" and 158. The police officer noted that Zimmerman was 5’ 9" and 200 lbs that night. At his arraignment he was down to 185.

 

[MaryT777]

In my opinion it doesn’t really matter what happened. At best it is a he said he said situation, except that one of the parties is dead. Sure, Zimmerman was probably wrong for following Martin, but you can’t be put in jail for following someone you think is suspicious when you are in the neighborhood watch. No matter what is said, there is still no real way of knowing beyond a reasonable doubt that Zimmerman attacked Martin, and in America that equals not guilty.

There’s plenty of reasonable doubt because no one saw the entire situation.
I agree with that.

 

[iamrefreshed]

Are you kidding me? Anyone unknown to Zimmerman is suspicious and can be followed to “see what they were doing?” Good grief.

No further dialogue needed now.

Your view is well known on more than one thread.

You can follow anyone you want. One person here broke the law. Martin when he attacked Zimmermen.

 

[MaryT777]

You can follow anyone you want. One person here broke the law. Martin when he attacked Zimmermen.

The 911 dispatcher didn’t say. ok good, Now keep following him.

 

[SwizzleStick]

Actually, according to the autopsy report Martin was 5’ 11" and 158. The police officer noted that Zimmerman was 5’ 9" and 200 lbs that night. At his arraignment he was down to 185.

Okay, I stand corrected. Martin was taller and lighter. Zimmerman was shorter and heavier. Thank you for the information.

 

[iamrefreshed]

The 911 dispatcher didn’t say. ok good, Now keep following him.

No, he was told to stop which he did. Then Martin attacked him.

 

[MaryT777]

No, he was told to stop which he did. Then Martin attacked him.

How do you know he stopped?

 

[styrgwillidar]

How do you know he stopped?

We can’t know.

However, Zimmerman stated that he stopped, his response to the dispatcher telling him “We don’t need you to do that” was “OK” and then “They always get away”, then he and the dispatcher discuss where Zimmerman will meet the police. This is why the dispatcher ended the call, Zimmerman was no longer providing real-time updates. It was at about this time that Martin told Jeantel that he no longer saw Zimmerman.

So, there are some indications, although not definitive, that Zimmerman stopped following when requested. Particularly arranging a spot to meet the police- how can he continue to follow or attempt to re-locate Martin and meet the police at the arranged location?