Open Thread on Zimmerman Trial

[dmelosi]

So you all seem to think race is out of the question here. Don’t think so.
If Tray were a white teen and Zimm were the black shooter, you must convict Zimmerman.
Ponder it!

Race should be out of the question, but it appears that you are basing your decision of guilt on race.

 

[qui_est_ce]

carlab:

So you all seem to think race is out of the question here. Don’t think so.
If Tray were a white teen and Zimm were the black shooter, you must convict Zimmerman.
Ponder it!

Sadly, if it were a black on black crime, it would be a small blurb on page 10.

I think this trial has opened our eyes to the failure of our our policies and educational systems to enfranchise minorities, especially those of the black community.

Obama and his wife had a great opportunity, but did nothing.

 

[estesbob]

So you all seem to think race is out of the question here. Don’t think so.
If Tray were a white teen and Zimm were the black shooter, you must convict Zimmerman.
Ponder it!

I heard the prosecutor say that to the jury-and of course he stole it from the defense attorneys closing argument in Grishams :A Time To kill"

 

[Carlan]

Race should be out of the question, but it appears that you are basing your decision of guilt on race.

Yes, it should be Dmelosi, however I have the impression that is not exactly the case with some.

dmelosi

 

[St_Francis]

So you all seem to think race is out of the question here. Don’t think so.
If Tray were a white teen and Zimm were the black shooter, you must convict Zimmerman.
Ponder it!

The first thing is that Zimmerman did not appear to be racist. As an example, he started the outcry regarding the lack of arrest when a Sanford police officer’s son beat up a man who was homeless and black.

The second thing is that there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything wrong. Instead, he found himself in a situation where someone was beating his head against a sidewalk.

If someone were beating your head against a sidewalk, would you not be in fear of serious bodily harm or maybe even death?

Why is it that the fact that Zimmerman was definitely beaten and Martin was definitely not has no bearing on your ideas about the guilt or lack thereof of Zimmerman?

 

[dmelosi]

Yes, it should be Dmelosi, however I have the impression that is not exactly the case with some.

.
dmelosi

Yes, I pointed that out earlier by the accepted comment that Trayvon made about Zimmerman and the assumptions that Zimmerman is a racist when facts point the opposite

 

[Carlan]

The first thing is that Zimmerman did not appear to be racist. As an example, he started the outcry regarding the lack of arrest when a Sanford police officer’s son beat up a man who was homeless and black.

The second thing is that there is no evidence that Zimmerman did anything wrong. Instead, he found himself in a situation where someone was beating his head against a sidewalk.

If someone were beating your head against a sidewalk, would you not be in fear of serious bodily harm or maybe even death?

Why is it that the fact that Zimmerman was definitely beaten and Martin was definitely not has no bearing on your ideas about the guilt or lack thereof of Zimmerman?

Trayvon, is unfortunately dead. Did he not have a right to defend himself against a 200 pound man. Of course he did. what would you have done Francis?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Trayvon, is unfortunately dead. Did he not have a right to defend himself against a 200 pound man. Of course he did. what would you have done Francis?

I know you were asking Francis. But what did the 200 pound man do to the other 200 pound man to make him start beating him?

Yes, it is a tragedy that Trayvon is dead.

 

[Carlan]

I have my opinion just you all do.
I am waiting for the Jury’s verdict , and that is what I will accept.

 

[St_Francis]

Trayvon, is unfortunately dead. Did he not have a right to defend himself against a 200 pound man.

What evidence do you have that Martin needed to defend himself against Zimmerman? And why didn’t you give that information to the police?

Of course he did.

Only if he had been attacked by Zimmerman. One does not have the right to self-defense at this level if one does not have a reasonable fear of imminient serious bodily damage or death.

what would you have done Francis?

On the couple of occasions I have been followed by creepy people, I have gotten the heck outta there. I did not hang around as Martin seems to have, given his location.

.

 

[JamesCaruso]

I have my opinion just you all do.
I am waiting for the Jury’s verdict , and that is what I will accept.

I will accept it like I did the OJ Simpson verdict. That is, if they convict GZ, I will continue to believe that there was a miscarriage of justice. Even if GZ was guilty, which only God knows, the evidence did not support a guilty verdict. If he’s found guilty, it won’t be based on the facts presented in the case, but on some wrongful motive such as sympathy for the parents of TM or race. The jury has to live with that, and also the governmental authorities who brought pressure to bear to prosecute a case that the police wanted to drop, the media that made a race circus out of it, and all the racially motivated people who contributed to the unfair atmosphere surrounding the trial. And of course GZ will have to live with it for 15 or 20 years in jail. If I were innocent (only God knows if GZ was), I would have a difficult time I think bringing myself to grips with bearing such a heavy cross.

 

[qui_est_ce]

What evidence do you have that Martin needed to defend himself against Zimmerman? And why didn’t you give that information to the police?

Only if he had been attacked by Zimmerman. One does not have the right to self-defense at this level if one does not have a reasonable fear of imminient serious bodily damage or death.

On the couple of occasions I have been followed by creepy people, I have gotten the heck outta there. I did not hang around as Martin seems to have, given his location.

As someone who has been robbed at gunpoint, I can tell you that I got out of there as fast as I could. Some stranger tried to stop me and said he saw the whole thing, and that I should get in the car with him to “get those guys.” I ran away as fast as I could from him too.

 

[St_Francis]

To Carlen: originally an addition to my previous post:

ETA: the original prosecuter declined to prosecute for lack of evidence. They had to bring in a special prosecutor to file the charges.

To me, the point is that Martin was beating Zimmerman’s head against the sidewalk, putting a reasonable fear of imminent harm or death. Zimmerman was crying out for help–at that point, Martin should have stopped and simply held Zimmerman’s arms or something.

If you read the SYG law, it even says if the original threatener is met with disproportionate force, self-defense can fall to the other person.

 

[styrgwillidar]

So you all seem to think race is out of the question here. Don’t think so.
If Tray were a white teen and Zimm were the black shooter, you must convict Zimmerman.
Ponder it!

Sorry, why must I treat Zimmerman or Trayvon differently if their races were different?

(You do realize, Zimmerman is part African-American via his great grandparents?)

 

[maryjk]

Sadly, if it were a black on black crime, it would be a small blurb on page 10.

**I think this trial has opened our eyes to the failure of our our policies and educational systems to enfranchise minorities, especially those of the black community.
**
Obama and his wife had a great opportunity, but did nothing.

And it is about to get worse.

According to this article by Jamon Smith, “Beginning this fall, Alabama public schools will be under a new state-created** academic accountability system that sets different goals for students in math and reading based on their race, economic status, ability to speak English and disabilities.**” Alabama’s Plan 2020 “sets a different standard for students in each of several subgroups – American Indian, Asian/Pacific islander, black, English language learners, Hispanic, multirace, poverty, special education and white.”

online.wsj.com/article/PR-CO-20130702-913533.html

 

[kelvinf]

So no quick verdict. Not good for the defense?

 

[styrgwillidar]

So no quick verdict. Not good for the defense?

Define quick. I wouldn’t think the jury would even get through reviewing the evidence, much less organizing it by each element of the possible offenses in less than a couple of days.

ETA: The fact that there are segments of the population and media which are going to respond to a not guilty verdict by accusing the jurors of racism I think would tend to make them more diligent and thorough in their deliberations. Hopefully not intimidated.

 

[Cider]

LOL it was 3 hours of deliberations. They have basic housekeeping like electing a jury foreman to do before they start discussing the case.

 

[kelvinf]

Define quick. I wouldn’t think the jury would even get through reviewing the evidence, much less organizing it by each element of the possible offenses in less than a couple of days.

Well, the 4 analysts on Fox 35 were saying that this wouldn’t last more than 2 hours. They were all really surprised (including the 2 anchors) to hear this “news”.

 

[styrgwillidar]

Well, the 4 analysts on Fox 35 were saying that this wouldn’t last more than 2 hours. They were all really surprised (including the 2 anchors) to hear this “news”.

Well, I’d never bet on how a jury goes. The fact there are only 6 jurors vice 12 might make things quicker. However, if I were on that jury, regardless of which way I ended up voting I would want to review everything and not rush it. Give it proper diligence.

I don’t think I could look either Zimmerman or the Martins in the eye (again, whatever the verdict) or myself in the mirror doing some kind of rushed job.