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Mirdath
Guest
It is only a corporal work of mercy if the person in question is in fact sinning, which the OP has already said he doesn’t know for sure; and Catholics are called to assume the best about others, not the worst.
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rpp
Guest
Mirdath, I am afraid I have to disagree. The man cannot know if, in fact, sin is taking place and this woman is receiving the Holy Eucharist in an improper state. However, he can, because he has some personal knowledge that the woman appears to be sinning publicly, bring to the attention of his parish priest. In fact, a reasonable argument could be made that for the sake of the soul of this woman he should has a discreet conversation wit his priest and identify this woman. It would also be reasonable, since he works with this woman, to ask the priest to remain anonymous.
That is one possible way to handle this. Another alternative is for him to speak with her directly since he knows this woman. However, I would discourage this as it may create problems in the workplace.
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rpp
Guest
This man is not (or should not be) making a determination as to her worthiness. Nor is he gossiping. He is bringing a matter of public sin to the attention of the priest. It then becomes an issue for the priest to deal with.
We are our brother’s (and sister’s) keeper.
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rpp
Guest
It is public sin because she is open gay and living with her lover.
As for the “God’s police force” comment, that is uncharacteristically pejorative of you to say. You are usually, in fact virtually always, quite charitable and kind in your responses. I am rather taken aback by the seeming hostility here. Or perhaps I have misread this.
I am not coming from the perspective of “enforcement” but of love of neighbor. To ignore the fact that someone is sinning very seriously and then bringing serious guilt and condemnation on themselves by receiving Holy Communion improperly is most hateful. It is like seeing a drowning person and holding a rope, but not throwing it.
To do what you suggest may imperil the soul of the person and is not an expression of love of a neighbor. Neither, by the way, is to self-righteously confront the person, declare her evil and order her to “repent or else”. Neither is correct to do. To lovingly point out Church teachings and invite the person to return to a state of grace is the correct course of action. A priest is the ideal person to help with this.
We are all called upon to instruct the ignorant and admonish the sinner.
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Jart
Guest
For my graduation mass there were a few lesbians there. At school they are open about it and were practicing. A few actually went with their girlfriends to the mass and received communion. I think they were just ignorant on the Church’s teachings.
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whatevergirl
Guest
She needs to come to terms with this herself. And like others stated, we don’t know what state her soul is truly in…although, appearances would dictate otherwise…we need to not judge others’ states of souls because we just don’t know for sure. But, God knows.
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1ke
Guest
The OP did not state that the person is “open gay” nor did the OP state that she was “living with her lover”.
You’ve assumed two things that are not FACTS and nowhere stated in the OP.
The OP only states that she is a lesbian and “in a relationship” with someone. And, we don’t know where the OP got those facts, or how accurate they are, or that this person is “openly” gay, or that they “live with” anyone.
YOUR facts are totally inaccurate, and the exact reason many of us are counseling that this is NOT anyone else’s business-- because they do not KNOW any such things to be true.
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1ke
Guest
Yes, you are correct. I actually didn’t look that closely at the title! I read the text of the OP, which states only that this person is someone she knows from work, is “lesbian” and “in a relationship”. Nowhere does it say she lives with a lover.Actually the title states that the OP knows the parishioner to be openly gay? Am I reading that wrong?
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LilyM
Guest
Exactly - remember the Salem witchhunts began by girls mischeivously accusing others of sins with no concrete evidence (since witchcraft is usually impossible TO provide evidence of, unless the person freely admits it themselves).
The difference with seeing someone about to physically profane the Blessed Sacrament is just that - that you can physically see someone pocket or walk away with the Host or what have you. You can’t physically see the state of someone’s soul.
Priests and bishops must take charity as their starting point and not refuse communion except for those who are openly and unrepentantly advocating a sinful lifestyle not in accord with Catholic teaching.
For example, if your friend wore a Rainbow Sash (the Rainbow Sash group being a bunch advocating the homosexual lifestyle) or was a politician known to vote pro-abortion or something like that.
The only thing to do in such circumstances is urge your friend, if she admits to engaging in homosexual activity, not to receive Communion out of respect for the fact that it symbolises a full assent to Church teaching which she lacks.
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whatevergirl
Guest
lol–that’s true.
I think that we often look at outward appearances…and frankly, if she is living with a woman, and openly has come out as a gay woman, then one can add two and two and logically conclude…or surmise rather, that this person is living ‘in sin.’ But, how many heterosexuals are living in sin, too? I am not sure it would be wrongful to bring this to the attention of one’s priest? But, it might make one feel very …I dunno…guilty in doing so? I don’t know if that’s the right word, but as a sinner, I don’t feel I’m entitled to be a police-woman over the Eucharist. (although mine are venial now…thank Heavens!)
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brianwalden
Guest
One solution might be to ask your pastor hypothetically. Tell him you have a acquaintance who is in an openly homosexual relationship and that your she receives communion at Mass. Tell him that you don’t know if she is in a state of sin or not, but ask if by telling him he may be able to counsel her for the benefit of her soul and the sanctity of the Eucharist. If he doesn’t want to know, leave it at that.
Maybe one check before asking your priest is to ask yourself if you’d do the same type of thing for the rest of your friends and family. Do you tell the priest about the ones who have told you that they use contraception, or skip Mass during the NFL playoffs, or deny some aspect of the magisterium, etc. and still receive communion without going to confession? If you’re just singling out your co-worker, it may be best to keep it to yourself and ask yourself why you’re focused on her and not others.
Maybe one check before asking your priest is to ask yourself if you’d do the same type of thing for the rest of your friends and family. Do you tell the priest about the ones who have told you that they use contraception, or skip Mass during the NFL playoffs, or deny some aspect of the magisterium, etc. and still receive communion without going to confession? If you’re just singling out your co-worker, it may be best to keep it to yourself and ask yourself why you’re focused on her and not others.
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Mirdath
Guest
I did not mean it to be hostile or pejorative at all – I was simply pointing out that while Christians are called to guide others to live morally (via instructing and – charitably – admonishing), that isn’t the same as riding herd over them or patrolling others’ lives in the holy squad cars
To me, it looks very much like the OP is trying to do the latter, what with his jumping to the juiciest possible conclusions, his talk of ‘reporting’, and all.whatevergirl’s take on it is what I was trying to convey: as a sinner, I don’t feel I’m entitled to be a police-woman over the Eucharist.
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whatevergirl
Guest
I think that as Catholics… we have to teach others…witness to others right from wrong. Please note, that by in no way do I mean we should stand by and watch others sin. But, in some ways, we have to teach others a better way. A holier way. Now, how could we witness to someone, let’s say for the sake of discussion, who is behaving in an openly immoral way? Someone who is a parishioner who we don’t know very well? I suppose we could go up to the priest and say…‘you know, is it possible that you could talk about mortal sin and how one really should examine his/her conscience before taking part in the Eucharist?’ or a different version of that…but that might be a way to make an announcement of the holiness of partaking of the Eucharist.I did not mean it to be hostile or pejorative at all – I was simply pointing out that while Christians are called to guide others to live morally (via instructing and – charitably – admonishing), that isn’t the same as riding herd over them or patrolling others’ lives in the holy squad cars
whatevergirl’s take on it is what I was trying to convey: as a sinner, I don’t feel I’m entitled to be a police-woman over the Eucharist.
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1ke
Guest
My point is: the OP did not state she was living with ANYONE. Now, here, a mere 25 posts later someone has added that in. Now, not only is she a lesbian but she is living wiht a lover.lol–that’s true.
I think that we often look at outward appearances…and frankly, if she is living with a woman, and openly has come out as a gay woman, then one can add two and two and logically conclude…or surmise rather, that this person is living ‘in sin.’ But, how many heterosexuals are living in sin, too? I am not sure it would be wrongful to bring this to the attention of one’s priest? But, it might make one feel very …I dunno…guilty in doing so? I don’t know if that’s the right word, but as a sinner, I don’t feel I’m entitled to be a police-woman over the Eucharist. (although mine are venial now…thank Heavens!)
It’s called the “Gossip Game” for a reason-- that old training ice breaker where you whisper something to someone and by the time it gets to the end of the line it’s tranformed into a completely different tale. I’ve seen it done a hundred times, and it’s always the same.
Here is an example of that, right here on our forum.
The OP might in fact have their facts totally wrong, too. What we’re saying is it’s between the parishioner and the priest, and it’s not the OP’s place to go around speculating.
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rpp
Guest
Yep. You are correct. I misunderstood the OP and some of the follow-up posts. I do not know if she is co-habitating. However the title of the thread is “Openly gay Catholic…”. So I was only 1 for 2.
I am do not believe it is correct to assume that she is engaging in immoral activity with this other woman. She may be, or they may just like having coffee together and hanging out at the movie theater.
For me the tipping point was my mistaken belief that she was living with her lover. Then, just like a heterosexual couple who are co-habitating, I think they should refrain from receiving Holy Communion. Because that living arrangement is a public declaration, thus a public sin.
Unless some firm information comes to the attention of the Connorsdad, it would be best he not to talk to anyone about this and just forget it.
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whatevergirl
Guest
Engaging in sexual activity that is not through a valid marriage can also be seen as immoral…I think that we simply can’t know if this person is doing that…
Just because someone isn’t living with someone, doesn’t make the situation acceptable. If two hetersexuals are having pre marital sex, and are not living together…it can still be seen as ‘wrong,’ but again…I hesitate to become the sin-gestapo.
Ah…if there is ever a day I don’t have a stone to throw… 
Just because someone isn’t living with someone, doesn’t make the situation acceptable. If two hetersexuals are having pre marital sex, and are not living together…it can still be seen as ‘wrong,’ but again…I hesitate to become the sin-gestapo.Ah…if there is ever a day I don’t have a stone to throw…
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