Opinion on the death penalty?

[Ender]

So you admit that JPII’s teaching is Church teaching, but not traditional Church teaching? Seems silly…

I tailor my remarks for a specific issue. The specific one we were discussing was the claim in 2267 about the traditional teaching of the church. My statement about it was that it was factually incorrect. That says nothing whatever about what JPII taught.

Now, different topic, different comment: regarding what JPII taught, the problem stems from the vague meaning of “taught”. The church has several levels of teachings, not all of which are we obliged to accept. If JPII’s comments represent doctrine, we must assent to them, but if they are opinions we have no such obligation. It has always been my position that his comments are prudential judgments.

“It is not one of those teachings a Catholic has to accept, like, for example, abortion. Abortion has clearly been defined by the church as a moral evil, which is never accepted under any circumstances or any justification.” …" If they’ve thought it through and prayed about it, they can still be a Catholic in good standing and not go along with the bishops on this (death penalty) issue.” (Bishop James Conley, 2016)

 

[MonteRCMS]

Solitary confinement. True solitary confinement i.e. they may have space, even outside space, but no contact with anyone, including guards. Meals put through a hatch so no risk. The only thing may be medical care and I’m hoping that someone in a situation to need it isn’t going to be in a position to attack someone.

Totally true.

HOWEVER, … would you bring food to a really bad lifer … or let them spray feces on you? … or escort one to the exercise yard?

Gassing, also known as chucking, is prison slang for the act of throwing feces or some other bodily fluid such as urine, blood or saliva at a jail or prison staff member.[1]

Gassing is an act of rebellion by inmates against custodial staff and is a felony in most U.S. states.

Victims of gassing are encouraged to undertake medical testing for possible infectious diseases. Gassing may occur spontaneously – such as when an inmate spits in the face of a correctional officer – or in a planned encounter – such as when an inmate mixes urine or feces with another liquid substance and throws it at a staff member when given the chance. In the state of California, for example, since 1998 a conviction for gassing has carried a sentence of up to five years segregation in prison.

References[edit]
Jump up ^ Sharon Shaley (2009). Supermax: Controlling Risk Through Solitary Confinement. Willan Publishing. p. 73.

And if someone is already a lifer … then what???

 

[o_mlly]

Gassing, also known as chucking, is prison slang for the act of throwing feces or some other bodily fluid such as urine, blood or saliva at a jail or prison staff member.[1]

If, in the concrete, the authority (judge, jury) decides that the prison system is not capable of protecting society from the reasonably predictable acts of any particular felon then capital punishment for that particular felon is a moral sentence. However, I believe no general rule may be made for all felons; case by case only.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

And we have this to support when use of capital punishment may be necessary;

Dad helped son after escape from South Carolina prison; 2 murder suspects still on the loose, officials say

A father is now behind bars with his son after he helped the 27-year-old, who escaped from a South Carolina prison Saturday, police said.

www.foxnews.com

“They took advantage of a situation," Young said. “We had an electrical short in the panel. It did what it was designed to do. When that electrical short happened, it released the locks within that pod, like they’re supposed to do.”

An officer attempted to control the situation and stop the inmates before they broke free.

“Four of them overpowered him. This guy put his life on the line, he was beaten and they were able to get his mace away from him and in the face of having been maced, still put up enough of a fight to make sure no one else was able to get away,” he said.

Jim

 

[Nelka]

Its not evil. It’s what the Church teaches and God gave the Church authority in matters of faith and morals. That means God fully supports all Church teachings. If you reject a Church teaching then you reject God.

So that means we can murder too?

 

[Ender]

So that means we can murder too?

Of course not…but it does mean that the State can execute criminals for serious crimes. Calling an execution a murder doesn’t make it one.

St. Jerome says, “To punish murderers, and sacrilegious men, and poisoners is not a shedding of blood, but the administration of law.” St. Augustine, “Those who, endowed with the character of public authority, punish criminals by death, do not violate that commandment which says, Thou shalt not kill.” (St. Bellarmine)

 

[Nelka]

Of course not…but it does mean that the State can execute criminals for serious crimes. Calling an execution a murder doesn’t make it one.

But different states have different ideas of serious.

 

[Ender]

But different states have different ideas of serious.

Very true, and saying that in general a State has the moral right to execute criminals doesn’t necessarily mean that it is morally justified in every case simply because the State has decided to apply it. The moral law permits it generally, but its particular application involves a prudential judgment.

 

[mythbuster1]

The next chapter commands that murderers be put to death, and indeed, the Law does not permit the life of a convicted murderer to be spared. To find mercy for murderers, you must look elsewhere in the Scriptures.

 

[2towers]

Worse off, odds are we’ve already executed at least one innocent person.

We have I am afraid:

ONE IN 25 SENTENCED TO DEATH IN THE U.S. IS INNOCENT, STUDY CLAIMS:

One in 25 Sentenced to Death in the U.S. Is Innocent, Study Claims - Newsweek

8 People Who Were Executed and Later Found Innocent:
https://stories.avvo.com/crime/murder/8-people-who-were-executed-and-later-found-innocent.html

Yes, America, We Have Executed an Innocent Man:

Yes, America, We Have Executed an Innocent Man

Carlos DeLuna was put to death in December 1989 for a murder in Corpus Christi. But he didn't commit the crime. Today, his case reminds us of the glaring flaws of capital punishment.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[mythbuster1]

Blessed are they who know the day and the hour of their deaths, that they may not appear before God unprepared.

 

[mythbuster1]

Justice sets the maximum punishment permitted to be inflicted upon the guilty. The other issues: incapacitation, deterrence, and rehabilitation, concern to what degree mercy should be granted.

 

[Sean77]

The answer to your question of what is the strongest argument for or against the death penalty depends on the audience to whom the question is posed. To that unbeliever, there really is not a solid foundation for being for or against anything. Most either support of oppose the death penalty based on subjective sentimentalism. Others try to present a rational modernistic argument for or against, but both sides can twist the stats to make an argument either way. To the faithful, the strongest argument is that God finds certain crimes worthy of death because they are egregious offenses against his intended order. If God seems to think something is a sufficiently serious offense to his design of creation, then who are we to question that? So when God says, “Whoever sheds human blood, by humans shall their blood be shed, for in the image of God has God made mankind,” we should understand that’s a big deal.

 

[thistle]

So that means we can murder too?

Stick to the topic!! Its about capital punishment and not any other form of killing.
Capital Punishment is not murder.

 

[TheOldColonel]

The prison system has become ineffective. I think it may be time for a more creative solution…

 

[Rozellelily]

Some Mafia infrastructure.Thankfully no MS-13.

I sympathise with you regarding violent gang related crime.It really is a horrible issue.
Being against the death penalty doesn’t have to mean being against harsh penalties.
A country can still be tough on crime and should give life sentences without parole when needed but without supporting the death penalty.

It doesn’t seem like the threat of capital punishment is anyway being a deterrent to these gang members in the US if they keep forming and committing violent crimes.

What also needs to addressed,although a very hard area to tackle and requiring much resources and money,is the social issue of gangs running jails,recruiting in jails etc.

 

[Rozellelily]

I love when you post the good old movies that I’ve never heard of.
Do you know where these can be viewed online or bought?

(sorry OP,a bit off track).

 

[TheOldColonel]

It should not be hard to find. Try the major sources. I saw this one in the theatre when it first came out.

 

[Rozellelily]

Unfortunately in Australia we no longer have DVD shops as the majority closed downs.
The ones still open are few and far between and mainly sell new stuff.

 

[Rhubarb]

It should never be applied. It’s demonstrated that it doesn’t act as a deterrent for crime. It fails to recognize the inherent value of human life. It’s hypocritical. It ends up costing more to execute someone than it does to imprison them for life. The chance of executing an innocent person automatically should disqualify execution as a form of punishment, and this happens more often than I’m comfortable with. It focuses on retribution, not rehabilitation, which I cannot respect in a justice system. For we Americans, the taking of a life should always be considered cruel and unusual.