Opinions of the New Mass Translation [edited]

[BernadetteM]

Since you bring up hymns, I had to say that even some of the newer Catholic “hymns” are such a farce as well. They are not hymns. The music is a travesty of unrhythmical notes with no gracefulness. At least let the music be ok, and then we could excuse a little of the theology lite that comes with it. News flash: not everything put to notes is a song!!

As I have stated before my parish has very traditional music. But one thing that does bother me is that when the last hymn is played some people will rush out of the Church without singing the last verse. Maybe this goes back to when the Mass was in Latin and people didn’t partake in hymns as they do now.

Also they appear to not enjoy singing as much as in my former Episcopal church. Music is so important to me and I feel that it really enriches the celebration of the Mass when it is good and all join in.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Mattapoisett64]

Is it really appropriate to refer to the upcoming revised translations of the Missal as yet another “New Mass?” That term, for good or ill, seems wedded to the Mass of Paul VI. Surely what’s coming isn’t yet another “New Mass,” but a revised translation of the Novus Ordo Missae. As reflected in numerous threads here, there is already a de facto 2-way split among many, with terms like “NO parish” and “NO priest” being hurled around as if a separate sect was being referred to. Surely we don’t need to carry that into 3 dimensions.

 

[OhMalley]

So far everyone who responded understood that I was referring to the OF. I used that title as I thought maybe it would be clearer to the posters what I meant. Apparently there was no confusion.

Bernadette

I sorta doubt posting #10 did. In any event it’s not a “new mass.”

 

[BernadetteM]

Is it really appropriate to refer to the upcoming revised translations of the Missal as yet another “New Mass?” That term, for good or ill, seems wedded to the Mass of Paul VI. Surely what’s coming isn’t yet another “New Mass,” but a revised translation of the Novus Ordo Missae. As reflected in numerous threads here, there is already a de facto 2-way split among many, with terms like “NO parish” and “NO priest” being hurled around as if a separate sect was being referred to. Surely we don’t need to carry that into 3 dimensions.

Yes apparently many people are very sensitive about the way terms are used here. You use one little word and people get so upset. When I came into the Church “NO” was the term I always heard now it is “OF”. Lets be more charitable when someone misuses words to describe the Mass. I really don’t understand all the uproar over a word. The real issue is whether the “new translation” of the Mass will be accepted by Catholics in a positive way. I would think that people using different terms for the “Mass” know that it is the same Mass just with some changes. I don’t get ruffled when someone uses words to express themselves that I wouldn’t use. It just really isn’t that important to me. I understand what they mean.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[Joannm]

I never heard the Mass of Paul VI referred to as the “NO” or Norvus Ordo Mass until I came on these boards…and I have a degree in liturgy.

 

[BernadetteM]

I sorta doubt posting #10 did. In any event it’s not a “new mass.”

Please see #24. There are so many more important issues within the Church today than using a word to describe the Mass. It seems like nit picking to me. Catholics of all Christians should be loving towards one another and sometimes that is not the attitude I feel here.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[BernadetteM]

I never heard the Mass of Paul VI referred to as the “NO” or Norvus Ordo Mass until I came on these boards…and I have a degree in liturgy.

Visit the Traditional board and people use it all the time. Since I am a convert I only know what I have heard from other Catholics. Maybe the Church needs to clarify the language laypeople use in referring to the name of the Mass, otherwise people who aren’t aware of all the appropriate terms can correct their errors.

God Bless

Bernadette

 

[cephas161619]

Visit the Traditional board and people use it all the time. Since I am a convert I only know what I have heard from other Catholics. Maybe the Church needs to clarify the language laypeople use in referring to the name of the Mass, otherwise people who aren’t aware of all the appropriate terms can correct their errors.

I’ve heard different language used by Traditionalists who don’t really care what the proper terminology is. Pope Benedict has called it the Extraordinary Form, but he’s not going to quibble if people insist on calling it ‘the Latin Mass’ or ‘the traditional Latin Mass’.

 

[japhy]

I never heard the Mass of Paul VI referred to as the “NO” or Norvus Ordo Mass until I came on these boards…and I have a degree in liturgy.

But apparently not in Latin.

The word is novus. I see a lot of people misspell it norvus and I don’t know why…

 

[SMHW]

Yes apparently many people are very sensitive about the way terms are used here. You use one little word and people get so upset.

Welcome to the fora, Bernadette. Or if you prefer, “forums”.

You are correct. People here are very sensitive to to use of terminology. A great many of the threads in this forum (and in the others) are tied to the definitions and provisions of liturgical law and/or canon law. And people who care about translations are also very likely to care about the usage of terms. You will find that using the same teminology from thread to thread makes discussion much easier.

Many People around here use “old English translation” to refer to the language used from 1964 to 1969 rather than to refer to what was used beginning in 1969/1970. As such, “revised English Mass translation” is probably better terminology because most people think 1970 when they hear the word “new”.

Granted, we figured out what you meant but it took most of us a few extra moments for our brains to “translate”.

 

[BernadetteM]

But apparently not in Latin.

The word is novus. I see a lot of people misspell it norvus and I don’t know why…

Since you have written a book and may be more knowledgeable than others I have a few questions.

What exactly does Novus Ordo mean? I assume ordo stands for order. Also why does it seem to bring out such negative responses from people?

Pertaining to the EF Mass what is wrong with calling it the TLM? Until recently I have heard or seen it referred to as the TLM and now more and more the EF.

It would be much nicer if posters instead of jumping all over people who use terms/words they dislike would in a Christian manner explain what is wrong with the use and if it is the incorrect usage to explain why it is.

Although I know that it doesn’t matter which faith community one belongs to there are always disagreements I hate to see disrespect on Catholic forums. It is my Church and I want to think the people in it are perfect. (Of course that is living in a dream world).

I hope others on all CAF forums will try to be more charitable towards we poor souls who don’t have all the answers and knowledge that others have. I surely don’t claim to be perfect and if someone is very unkind to me I might retort with some not so nice responses and if I do I would like the person to remind me to be gentle.

Yours in the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

 

[benedictgal]

Since you have written a book and may be more knowledgeable than others I have a few questions.

What exactly does Novus Ordo mean? I assume ordo stands for order. Also why does it seem to bring out such negative responses from people?

Pertaining to the EF Mass what is wrong with calling it the TLM? Until recently I have heard or seen it referred to as the TLM and now more and more the EF.

It would be much nicer if posters instead of jumping all over people who use terms/words they dislike would in a Christian manner explain what is wrong with the use and if it is the incorrect usage to explain why it is.

Although I know that it doesn’t matter which faith community one belongs to there are always disagreements I hate to see disrespect on Catholic forums. It is my Church and I want to think the people in it are perfect. (Of course that is living in a dream world).

I hope others on all CAF forums will try to be more charitable towards we poor souls who don’t have all the answers and knowledge that others have. I surely don’t claim to be perfect and if someone is very unkind to me I might retort with some not so nice responses and if I do I would like the person to remind me to be gentle.

Yours in the Sacred Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette

The Novus Order means “New Order”. The reason why you are reading a lot about the EF is because that is the term the Holy Father has used, most recently in his Motu Propio granting wider use of the Extraordinary Form of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. The Ordinary Form is what we have in current use today. It is always a good thing to use terminology and acronyms that the Church uses, hence that is why you will see references to EF and OF.

 

[banished]

Hi all,

This is Friday evening, and time for the High Mass of The Solemnity of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus." Below is a link to the Offertorim: Improperium exspectavit for this Mass:

christusrex.org/www2/cant…xspectavit.mp3

If it wont auto load, maybe you can copy and paste the link:

…www.christusrex.org/www2/cant…xspectavit.mp3…

Richard

 

[Joannm]

But apparently not in Latin.

The word is novus. I see a lot of people misspell it norvus and I don’t know why…

I have enough trouble spelling words in English let alone Latin. You should see me butcher the spelling of the names of documents. Actually the only time we ever saw the term was in the document promulgating the Missal but it was used as a description “the new Order of the Mass…”, not as a title of the Mass.

 

[peregrinus_sg]

I have studied the new translation, and while it is very faithful to the Latin, its syntax is a bit different than we are used to. Now this won’t be too noticable in the parts of the laity, but in the priest’s prayers there might be some difficulty in getting used to the cadence and the arrangement of clauses and such. They will need to practice a bit. I know that there will be practice CDs or online sources for priests to practice with. I know my pastor was reading though one of the EPs at our last liturgy meeting and was struggling with it. It’s not how we normally speak in English.

Certainly the new texts will get some getting used to before they flow off our tongues. I’ve noticed though how memorable they are… even before we’re supposed to use the new texts, I’ve actually got phrases from the new text etched in my mind that makes me cringe when I hear the existing translations.

To get used to the cadence of the new texts, it might be helpful to record and hear yourself reading the texts. And try to read the texts slowly, I’ve noticed that it helps greatly.

 

[japhy]

What exactly does Novus Ordo mean? I assume ordo stands for order. Also why does it seem to bring out such negative responses from people?

The word novus means “new”. Hence, the English words “novelty” and “novice”, among others.

The phrase novus ordo means “[a] new order”. It’s out of context, honestly. The part of the Mass that is the same day-to-day is called the “ordinary” or the “order of Mass”; in Latin, that’s the ordo missae. In 1969, the order of the Mass was reformed in such a way that it really was a new order of the Mass: things got moved around, removed, shortened, replaced, added, etc. The new Order of the Mass doesn’t look like the old Order of the Mass the way the 1962 liturgy resembled the 1951 liturgy or the 1850 liturgy or the 1750 liturgy or the 1650 liturgy, etc.

The 1969 Order of the Mass truly is a new Order of the Mass.

But the phrase “new order” is a loaded phrase. “New World Order” comes to many people’s minds.

Pertaining to the EF Mass what is wrong with calling it the TLM? Until recently I have heard or seen it referred to as the TLM and now more and more the EF.

There’s nothing wrong about calling the E.F. the “Traditional Latin Mass”, since that is very much what it is. It’s just that there’s no similarly-named non-polemical way of speaking of the revised Mass. People don’t call it the “Innovative Vernacular Mass” or the “Revised Latin-or-Vernacular Mass”, etc.

The names “Ordinary Form” and “Extraordinary Form” are relatively neutral and are not misleading. The Ordinary Form can be celebrated in Latin. Vatican II expected the reformed liturgy to be prayed mostly in Latin.

It would be much nicer if posters instead of jumping all over people who use terms/words they dislike would in a Christian manner explain what is wrong with the use and if it is the incorrect usage to explain why it is.

I hope I wasn’t perceived as rude. All the smileys were meant to avoid that exact problem.

 

[7_Sorrows]

does anyone know for sure when we will begin using the new translation?

 

[japhy]

does anyone know for sure when we will begin using the new translation?

I’ve heard it’s supposed to be ready for use starting in Advent of 2010, but that might get pushed back a year if the remaining sections aren’t approved of quickly enough and if the preliminary liturgical catechesis doesn’t get off the ground soon enough.

 

[7_Sorrows]

thanks for the info. that is farther off than i had thought. i thought we would be using it be the end of this year, but i guess things are moving a bit slower than anticipated.

 

[Religio71]

when is the new translation coming out? I’ve been hearing about this for a long time. I don’t think the laity would have any problem with it. When I go to Mass at the National Shrine, they have the order of Mass on a paper (not like the full Mass, but just things people might not have memorized eek like the Confiteor or the Nicene Creed). It would be easy to have it on that same paper as well.

My favorite part is:

P-“The Lord be with you”
R-“And with your spirit”

That’s the actual translation, I wonder why they made it “and also with you”. I love hearing that in the Divine Liturgy!