Opponents Protest in Face of NRA Silence on Sandy Hook Shooting

[styrgwillidar]

So now you will prosecute victims of property crime?

Well, he said if they didn’t report them stolen. I would go along with mandatory reporting of stolen weapons. Police have tons of break-ins and they recieve very little attention. This would at least ensure police can prioritize a break-in where weapons were stolen over tv/jewelry.

I do agree with prodigal son that the mental health form should include all members of the household where the weapon will be stored. Problem will be during the lifetime as circumstances change. You’re single when you buy the weapon. Get married, have kids, and one of them has issues.

I see the mental health as far more important than the type of weapon, so I would say there should be a requirement for a gun owner to remove the weapons he holds if a family member is diagnosed with a mental illness which a psychiatrist/therapist indicates makes them a threat. (I would think a responsible gun owner would do this anyway, even without a law)

I agree with Prodigal Son on training. I just think it needs a lot of work to define and implement the training. Define the objectives, the curriculum to meet the objectives, cost etc. Newbies with weapons and no training are frightening, not from a crime but a safety perspective.

Perhaps treating the AWs (however we end up defining them) more like full-autos under the NFA. (Without the prohibitive tax) Give the opporunity if the weapon is transferred to once again look at the new owner/household mental health. This should be part of the transfer through the FFL.

I don’t see a problem with requiring all transfers to go through an FFL, if they aren’t already. I’m in CA and that’s been a requirement for a while. Adds a little inconvenience like the 15 day waiting period but certainly doesn’t bar ownership.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

It looks like some states already have a law in place requiring reporting lost or stolen guns. Connecticut is one of those. Wouldn’t have done any good in this case. The owner got a far greater penalty than the fine the government would have levied on her.

smartgunlaws.org/reporting-lost-or-stolen-firearms-policy-summary/

I think being held civilly liable is far scarier than a $50-$100 fine.

Maybe the fines/penalty need to be greater, large enough to get someone’s attention.

I’m not arguing it anymore. I’ll do what my conscience leads me to do and write the lawmakers and support controls, and leave it to them. Most activists are not offering any solutions, and dismissing all suggestions. I can’t see it being a constructive discussion. I’ve seen assertions made, questioned it repeatedly asking for sources at which point it’s ignored. Gun rights are a legitimate right, a secular right. It’s being argued, while minimizing the events that brought us to this discussion, to point of appearing sacred to some. Those rights are not sacred.

It’s the Christmas holidays. Everyone needs to take a break, spend some quality time with loved ones, and remember those people who cannot, in Connecticut.

Merry Christmas, if I’m not back on before then.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Well, he said if they didn’t report them stolen. I would go along with mandatory reporting of stolen weapons. Police have tons of break-ins and they recieve very little attention. This would at least ensure police can prioritize a break-in where weapons were stolen over tv/jewelry.

I do agree with prodigal son that the mental health form should include all members of the household where the weapon will be stored. Problem will be during the lifetime as circumstances change. You’re single when you buy the weapon. Get married, have kids, and one of them has issues.

I see the mental health as far more important than the type of weapon, so I would say there should be a requirement for a gun owner to remove the weapons he holds if a family member is diagnosed with a mental illness which a psychiatrist/therapist indicates makes them a threat. (I would think a responsible gun owner would do this anyway, even without a law)

I agree with Prodigal Son on training. I just think it needs a lot of work to define and implement the training. Define the objectives, the curriculum to meet the objectives, cost etc. Newbies with weapons and no training are frightening, not from a crime but a safety perspective.

Perhaps treating the AWs (however we end up defining them) more like full-autos under the NFA. (Without the prohibitive tax) Give the opporunity if the weapon is transferred to once again look at the new owner/household mental health. This should be part of the transfer through the FFL.

I don’t see a problem with requiring all transfers to go through an FFL, if they aren’t already. I’m in CA and that’s been a requirement for a while. Adds a little inconvenience like the 15 day waiting period but certainly doesn’t bar ownership.

Thank you for your constructive comments. I sincerely appreciate hearing them.

God Bless and Merry Christmas (in case I’m not on before.)

 

[styrgwillidar]

Maybe the fines/penalty need to be greater, large enough to get someone’s attention.

I’m not arguing it anymore. I’ll do what my conscience leads me to do and write the lawmakers and support controls, and leave it to them. Most activists are not offering any solutions, and dismissing all suggestions. I can’t see it being a constructive discussion. I’ve seen assertions made, questioned it repeatedly asking for sources at which point it’s ignored. Gun rights are a legitimate right, a secular right. It’s being argued, while minimizing the events that brought us to this discussion, to point of appearing sacred to some. Those rights are not sacred.

It’s the Christmas holidays. Everyone needs to take a break, spend some quality time with loved ones, and remember those people who cannot, in Connecticut.

Merry Christmas, if I’m not back on before then.

Merry Christmas to you and yours. May the peace of Christ be upon you, have a joyous season.

 

[pete_29]

Maybe the fines/penalty need to be greater, large enough to get someone’s attention.

I’m not arguing it anymore. I’ll do what my conscience leads me to do and write the lawmakers and support controls, and leave it to them. Most activists are not offering any solutions, and dismissing all suggestions. I can’t see it being a constructive discussion. I’ve seen assertions made, questioned it repeatedly asking for sources at which point it’s ignored. Gun rights are a legitimate right, a secular right. It’s being argued, while minimizing the events that brought us to this discussion, to point of appearing sacred to some. Those rights are not sacred.

It’s the Christmas holidays. Everyone needs to take a break, spend some quality time with loved ones, and remember those people who cannot, in Connecticut.

Merry Christmas, if I’m not back on before then.

Let me know when you figure out how to keep people from killing each other. Until that happens, the arguing about how they do it is pretty much useless.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Let me know when you figure out how to keep people from killing each other. Until that happens, the arguing about how they do it is pretty much useless.

Conversion of as many hearts as possible. It can’t be done with like kind people, arguing secular points though.

Merry Christmas

 

[Dawnia]

Maybe the fines/penalty need to be greater, large enough to get someone’s attention.

I’m not arguing it anymore. I’ll do what my conscience leads me to do and write the lawmakers and support controls, and leave it to them. Most activists are not offering any solutions, and dismissing all suggestions. I can’t see it being a constructive discussion. I’ve seen assertions made, questioned it repeatedly asking for sources at which point it’s ignored. Gun rights are a legitimate right, a secular right. It’s being argued, while minimizing the events that brought us to this discussion, to point of appearing sacred to some. Those rights are not sacred.

It’s the Christmas holidays. Everyone needs to take a break, spend some quality time with loved ones, and remember those people who cannot, in Connecticut.

Merry Christmas, if I’m not back on before then.

Merry Christmas to you too! I’ve mostly just been reading the discussion and I’ve seen some good ideas and other not so good ideas. The thing about any controls is that they will have to pass the courts because they will be challenged.

Maybe we need to look at what is working rather than just targeting laws based on a single incident. There are places that have very little gun crime…Hawaii is one of those. They only had 1 gun related homocide in all of 2010. What is it that they are doing that no one wants to shoot each other?

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

Merry Christmas to you too! I’ve mostly just been reading the discussion and I’ve seen some good ideas and other not so good ideas. The thing about any controls is that they will have to pass the courts because they will be challenged.

Maybe we need to look at what is working rather than just targeting laws based on a single incident. There are places that have very little gun crime…Hawaii is one of those. They only had 1 gun related homocide in all of 2010. What is it that they are doing that no one wants to shoot each other?

Newtown was the 5th safest designated town in America, prior to this incident.

 

[pete_29]

Conversion of as many hearts as possible. It can’t be done with like kind people, arguing secular points though.

Merry Christmas

I agree. Open your mind.

 

[Prodigal_Son1]

I agree. Open your mind.

Thanks for proving my point brother. I’ll only respond to valid points and not slights with unknown intentions.

Merry Christmas

 

[Sarcelle]

I think trying it out to save the lives of children would be worth the gamble. The point is you have a much better chance at subduing the assailant in this scenario than you do when he’s packing an assault rifle with a thirty round clip, which is no chance at all!

And you act like he’s going to be some level headed professional killer to see that in the midst of reloading he’s being rushed by several people, drop the shotgun, pull handguns and shoot them all in a matter of two or three seconds! Again, please, these shooters aren’t James Bond, they’re deranged kids with no professional military experience in almost every shooting like this.

You assume of course that he will not have access to an assault rifle. A deranged kid with the will to conduct this sort of atrocity can easily get an assault rifle illegally. Especially an intelligent and deranged kid. Do you think they care about the law? They are about to commit murder so why would they care about obtaining a gun legally?

Even with the ban on assault rifles in place, there is such a thing called the black market where assault rifles and even more powerful weapons are available.

 

[pete_29]

Thanks for proving my point brother. I’ll only respond to valid points and not slights with unknown intentions.

Merry Christmas

You know the intention because it was yours.

 

[SamH]

Well, he said if they didn’t report them stolen. I would go along with mandatory reporting of stolen weapons. Police have tons of break-ins and they recieve very little attention. This would at least ensure police can prioritize a break-in where weapons were stolen over tv/jewelry.

So you’ve reported it stolen - now what? Anyone feel safer?

 

[SamH]

Even with the ban on assault rifles in place, there is such a thing called the black market where assault rifles and even more powerful weapons are available.

Some provided by our own government.

 

[SamH]

Maybe the fines/penalty need to be greater, large enough to get someone’s attention.

I’m not arguing it anymore. I’ll do what my conscience leads me to do and write the lawmakers and support controls, and leave it to them. Most activists are not offering any solutions, and dismissing all suggestions. I can’t see it being a constructive discussion. I’ve seen assertions made, questioned it repeatedly asking for sources at which point it’s ignored. Gun rights are a legitimate right, a secular right. It’s being argued, while minimizing the events that brought us to this discussion, to point of appearing sacred to some. Those rights are not sacred.

It’s the Christmas holidays. Everyone needs to take a break, spend some quality time with loved ones, and remember those people who cannot, in Connecticut.

Merry Christmas, if I’m not back on before then.

It’s similar acts that brought the “Gun Free School Act” that has killed over 100 children.

I hope your conscience can live with it.

 

[livingwordunity]

Let’s have Barack and Nancy expose the depth and breadth of Treasury’s ATF gun running under their watch via “Fast & Furious” and related gun grants to drug overlords. Was it to give their secret allies a boost? Treasury’s IRS is dumping billions on these same drug cartels via relaxed tax refund fraud guidelines. We are to judge by what they do, not what they say. The NAZI’s were spawned in the aftermath of “The Great War” by arming and financing the sludge of society. Hitler seized all private arms. Are we (heading) there yet? Joe, where is the “never forget”?

Anybody have a flash mob in their neighborhood? I did. Party got seriously out of hand. 2nd Amendment looks pretty good in that context.

Disarm Capital Hill. Let the bobbies carry billy clubs and non-lethal tazers and pepper spray. Give it a spin in your 'hood first, buds. Then we’ll talk.

The biggest slaughter of grade school children took place in Bath, Michigan in 1927. Mad bomber.

How about the liberal politicians who support banning guns give up their own guns first?

 

[spartan_cop]

Sigh, ok I’ll say it: the NRA is far more than you say here. It is a powerful political lobby that has ever agitated for more expansive gun ownership rights, and less regulation and easier access to firearms of all types. This isn’t about taking away everyone’s guns. It’s about regulating better to prevent easy access to weapons of war for the mentally deranged. Hunting rifles and handguns are one thing, the Bushmaster .223 that this guy used to massacre children is something else. It is a military-grade assault rifle pure and simple. No one needs this kind of killing machine, not for personal protection and certainly not for sport. It should not be available for general sale to the public, anymore than are rocket or grenade launchers.

You do realize that the 1911 handgun is the standard military issued handgun right? Most folks actually own this type of gun. The .308 rifle, commonly used for hunting, is also standard issued for “snipers.” The Mosberg shotgun is also standard issue in the military, yet these are the most common home defense guns in the country. What makes the AR-15 military? Is it because you can attached all those bells and whistles on it? Is it to .223 caliber? Why aren’t the

 

[spartan_cop]

Or ask Timothy McVeigh, or Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold (Columbine massacre). One killed 168 people without using a gun, while the other two committed a mass shooting during the time period “assault weapons” were banned (with mainly non-banned weapons).

Let’s also ask the terrorist who plan 911. Those planes killed more people in an instant than a lone gunman ever could.

 

[spartan_cop]

What do you mean by “law abiding citizen”? Women who have abortions are “law abiding citizens” and so are the doctors who perform them. So what does being law-abiding have to do with morality?

Gollum was created to illustrate what Catholics believe happens to a person who “clings” to items that provide power and control. I used the word “cling” on purpose, because it illustrates the difference between someone who owns a gun and an extremist who needs a gun. Nobody needs a gun.

Lots of gun owners agree with me that there should be limits. Hopefully they will be allowed to contribute in a meaningful way to the conversation.

No one needs a car, plane, internet, phones, sports, or other non-basic life needs. what’s your point? Just because you choose not to own a gun does not give YOU the right to make others not have one. Who are you to decide that?

 

[Geist]

The NRA is done if it compromises, I say good riddance, they’re more interested in executive compensation than lobbying for us. Smaller more dedicated groups like the SAF and GOA fight much harder for us with much less money.