Oppressive husbands

[exoflare]

I’m not sure what you’re trying to get at with this.

A man must have respect for his mother. This DOES NOT mean that once he is married, he is to continue to put his mother before his wife.

Once a man is married, his wife must be the number one person in his life - even before children, and most certainly before parents. Same goes for the wife.

This is something we specifically learned about in our Pre Cana (engaged couple’s) retreat at our parish.

Basically, all I’m saying is that if you see a man appears to respect his mother that’s not nearly enough to go on. Yes, it’s important information but it’s not as simple as “he will treat you the same way he treats his mother.”

You’re right that the man shouldn’t continue to put his mother before his wife after they are married, but if the woman follows the conventional advice here she won’t even find out if her husband would do this until it’s already too late.

 

[guanophore]

I know a lot of women who want to be abused. They think that their husbands don’t love them if they don’t hit them. If the husband doesn’t hit them they will do something to make him strike.

No one wants to be abused. Everyone wants to be loved and cherished. Some people have had such a disordered experience of love that they don’t understand the difference between love and abuse, especially if they were brought up in abuse by the persons who also told them they loved them, or that they believed loved them in spite of the abuse.

You are quite right about the victim provoking the perpetrator to become abusive. This dynamic works both ways (men do it to women too). It is a way of breaking the tension and forwarding the cycle of abuse so that each can experience the temporary lull between outbursts, during which reconciliation often happens. It is the sign of an attachment disorder, and these usually start in the very early months and years of life.

I even know one who burned their house down because her husband didn’t do what she told him to do.

Yes people who hold in enough rage will often perpetrate violent and criminal acts once they reach the point where they can no longer contain the rage.

On the other hand the man is supposed to be the head of the household and should be obeyed without resorting to hitting his wife.

Yes. Violence is the sign of an out of order relationship from both sides.

swow I’m so thankful I don’t know any women or ever hear of any women who are so psychologically disturbed that they enjoy good beating. I think thats extremely rare

I wish this were true, but it is not. Most folks in the corrections system have expereinced violence in relationships, many from an early age. Children learn to provoke their parents to wrath because they are in so much pain and anxiety. The beating provides relief for both. Sometimes the children much prefer a physical beating to the emotional and verbal battery because it has a defined end and some say it is less painful overall.

Children that grow up around this kind of violence confuse love and aggression. It is not that they “enjoy a good beating”, but it is the lesser of two evils from their perspective. It is comfortable because it is familiar and predictable. Aggression is still a way to connect to others, and if there is no other way to connect, it is better than nothing.

narcissistic oppressive men are not so rare

Neither are narcissitic women! Hubris and self centeredness is the natural fallen state of mankind.

the story about the house burned down sound like a true narcissistic male exaggerating the story to brainwash others to think it was all his X's fault and she was the one messed up. just like you,"know a lot of women who want to be abused" I know a lot of men that like to use religion as a tool for their narcissistic oppression. which was the subject of the thread.

Not necessarily. Women who have been harboring rage for a long time are capable of heinous acts of violence. One should not estimate the “wrath of the woman scorned”.

 

[guanophore]

Am I being abusive if I tell my wife to clean the house?

That depends upon how you do it. You can demand and give orders, or ask for help. You can use a kind and pursuasive tone, or an angry one.

The circumstances may also be a factor in this “telling”. If you and your wife both have full time jobs out of the house, then expecting her to do all the housework because it is “women’s work” then are you expecting for her to contribute more to the household than you are? If there are kids who are old enough to help around the house, and the parents are not united in communicating expectations to them, this is a family problem.

It has been my experience that more women than men are slobs and will never clean house if their husbands don’t tell them to.

I am sorry that you have had such an unpleasant expereince. One must also consider that there may be other factors in being “slobs”. Not taking care of the activities of daily living is a sign of depression and hopelessness as well.

In the scheme of things, a messy house is not high on the list of wrongs. I cannot understand
complaints here about wives and husbands being messy. Where is the communication in the marriage? Do we need to disrespect our spouses and complain about small things to strangers on a forum?

It is a sign that Christ is not the center of the marriage. Imagine how Mary’s home must have looked? Did Jesus help her around the house? There is such a strong element of hospitaltity in our Judeo Christian history. A home that is not ready to recieve Christ, or His angel is not a rightly ordered home. The connected problem with this is that we often miss that housekeeping can be as useful a spiritual discipline as praying the Rosary, or can be done while praying. Our culture has forgotten how to prayerfully engage in daily activities, so that all of them are a joyful consecration to God.

 

[Debora123]

Am I being abusive if I tell my wife to clean the house?
It has been my experience that more women than men are slobs and will never clean house if their husbands don’t tell them to.

That’s strange.

Women tend to be, by nature, a neater/cleaner than men. (though not ALL are, of course, but they generally tend to be.)

I first began figuring this out in middle school when my girl friends and I used to think it was funny to sneak into the empty boy’s bathroom after school.

Without going into inappropriate detail, let’s just say I’d rather sleep on the floor in the girl’s bathroom than pee in the boy’s bathroom. It was absolutely disgusting in there.

I then got further and further confirmation of this in college when I’d visit a guy’s dorm verses a girl’s dorm.

I’m sure you get the point.

 

[Debora123]

In the scheme of things, a messy house is not high on the list of wrongs. I cannot understand
complaints here about wives and husbands being messy. Where is the communication in the marriage? Do we need to disrespect our spouses and complain about small things to strangers on a forum?

I don’t think Buck Crosswhite actually has a spouse…

 

[Debora123]

Basically, all I’m saying is that if you see a man appears to respect his mother that’s not nearly enough to go on. Yes, it’s important information but it’s not as simple as “he will treat you the same way he treats his mother.”

You’re right that the man shouldn’t continue to put his mother before his wife after they are married, but if the woman follows the conventional advice here she won’t even find out if her husband would do this until it’s already too late.

Ah, I see what you’re saying.

Agreed.

 

[severus68]

I don’t think Buck Crosswhite actually has a spouse…

Then he just likes to irritate or entertain?

 

[Debora123]

Then he just likes to irritate or entertain?

As other posters have said, I think a lot of the men who came on here to start fighting have some sort of anger or contempt towards women for some reason.

That’s what it comes off as at least, but who knows.

 

[Serap]

Yes it does. And what’s your point?

Violence is still way more prominent among males than among females. It’s more of a “testosterone” trait.

not so much anymore.

women are becoming just as violent as men…

 

[Serap]

Am I being abusive if I tell my wife to clean the house?
It has been my experience that more women than men are slobs and will never clean house if their husbands don’t tell them to.

Yes, that is abusive to ask your wife to clean the house. Pick up a broom!!!

She’s not your maid service…perhaps the house is a mess b/c she’s busy doing other important things.

ouch!

 

[Debora123]

not so much anymore.

women are becoming just as violent as men…

“Just as violent as men” is definitely going too far.

Men are, by nature, the more aggressive gender.

 

[guanophore]

Then he just likes to irritate or entertain?

Or maybe finds it entertaining to irritate?

 

[severus68]

Or maybe finds it entertaining to irritate?

You may be right.

 

[EasterJoy]

“Just as violent as men” is definitely going too far.

Men are, by nature, the more aggressive gender.

People victimize and are made victims one at a time, so it doesn’t matter that much. After all, if your wife is one of those rare ones who comes after you with a knife, the statistics aren’t any comfort.

 

[Serap]

People victimize and are made victims one at a time, so it doesn’t matter that much. After all, if your wife is one of those rare ones who comes after you with a knife, the statistics aren’t any comfort.

to clarify my point, I live in Toronto Canada. It’s a huge city and I see violent youths all the time (I work downtown) and let me tell you, young girls can throw some pretty good punches these days.

I don’t see much of a difference in violent tendencies between men and women these days, but if a man is violent, he can definitely win a physical fight with a woman. The woman may start it, but the man will most certainly finish it.

 

[EasterJoy]

to clarify my point, I live in Toronto Canada. It’s a huge city and I see violent youths all the time (I work downtown) and let me tell you, young girls can throw some pretty good punches these days.

I don’t see much of a difference in violent tendencies between men and women these days, but if a man is violent, he can definitely win a physical fight with a woman. The woman may start it, but the man will most certainly finish it.

If she picks a fight with a man who won’t hit a woman or if she chooses a weapon to even things up, she may finish it, too. I’m not saying that testosterone doesn’t make physical violence a greater temptation for men than for women, but that especially when addictions or an abusive past are involved, all bets are off. The Easter Bunny can become abusive, aggressive and violent, if you are cruel enough to it.

When it comes to physical altercations on public transportation here in Portland, it seems to be females getting physical often as guys, if not more often.

 

[Serap]

If she picks a fight with a man who won’t hit a woman or if she chooses a weapon to even things up, she may finish it, too. I’m not saying that testosterone doesn’t make physical violence a greater temptation for men than for women, but that especially when addictions or an abusive past are involved, all bets are off. The Easter Bunny can become abusive, aggressive and violent, if you are cruel enough to it.

When it comes to physical altercations on public transportation here in Portland, it seems to be females getting physical often as guys, if not more often.

Yeah, I see that too. Maybe it’s a city dweller thing.

You know, I read some stats recently that if an infant is abused and doesn’t attach to a primary caregiver by age 3, they are at a huge risk of becoming a pyschopath, narcissist, borderline personality disorder, etc. It all stems from Reactive Attachment Disorder.

I used to have contempt for street kids. Now I feel really sorry for them. sorry to digress…

 

[EasterJoy]

Yeah, I see that too. Maybe it’s a city dweller thing.

You know, I read some stats recently that if an infant is abused and doesn’t attach to a primary caregiver by age 3, they are at a huge risk of becoming a pyschopath, narcissist, borderline personality disorder, etc. It all stems from Reactive Attachment Disorder.

I used to have contempt for street kids. Now I feel really sorry for them. sorry to digress…

To clarify: there are organic reasons that can lead a person to have a personality disorder, too, which can also interfere with or prevent that bonding. It doesn’t require an abusive or deprived upbringing. Also, bring an addiction into the family, and it is a whole new ballgame. I remember Craig Ferguson, an alcoholic, saying that an alcoholic will steal your purse and feel guilty about it, while a meth addict will steal your purse and then pretend to help you look for it. The point is that a person can be raised with a good character, but then lose that mooring when they become addicted. It is the substance abuse that makes them untrustworthy. Make the person the family needs to be trustworthy and a protector into someone who is unpredictable and violent, and the damage will be profound.

There are also situations that make a person irritable, and it takes a great deal of moral fiber to use one’s authority properly in those situations. I don’t think that most abusive teachers went into teaching because they were willing to take one of the lower-paying jobs requiring a college education in order to get an opportunity to abuse small children. Rather, they found themselves in a position of authority that unexpectedly overwhelmed them…but what are they going to do, when that is their profession? I think this happens to some husbands and parents, too.

This is a bit different than the topic of this thread, which is people who have a cultural bias that leads them to misinterpret what it looks like when a Christian holds authority, whether in the home or as an employer or teacher or whatever. It is a special problem when the victims of the abuse buy into the warped view of what Scriptures say. Caught between self-preservation and what they falsely believe fidelity to God requires of them, they remain “faithful.” It is heartbreaking to see.

 

[Serap]

To clarify: there are organic reasons that can lead a person to have a personality disorder, too, which can also interfere with or prevent that bonding. It doesn’t require an abusive or deprived upbringing. Also, bring an addiction into the family, and it is a whole new ballgame. I remember Craig Ferguson, an alcoholic, saying that an alcoholic will steal your purse and feel guilty about it, while a meth addict will steal your purse and then pretend to help you look for it. The point is that a person can be raised with a good character, but then lose that mooring when they become addicted. It is the substance abuse that makes them untrustworthy. Make the person the family needs to be trustworthy and a protector into someone who is unpredictable and violent, and the damage will be profound.

There are also situations that make a person irritable, and it takes a great deal of moral fiber to use one’s authority properly in those situations. I don’t think that most abusive teachers went into teaching because they were willing to take one of the lower-paying jobs requiring a college education in order to get an opportunity to abuse small children. Rather, they found themselves in a position of authority that unexpectedly overwhelmed them…but what are they going to do, when that is their profession? I think this happens to some husbands and parents, too.

This is a bit different than the topic of this thread, which is people who have a cultural bias that leads them to misinterpret what it looks like when a Christian holds authority, whether in the home or as an employer or teacher or whatever. It is a special problem when the victims of the abuse buy into the warped view of what Scriptures say. Caught between self-preservation and what they falsely believe fidelity to God requires of them, they remain “faithful.” It is heartbreaking to see.

This reminds me of that movie “Traffic” where that nice young girl becomes a junky and turns on her father. She’s out on the streets prostituting herself for drugs.

 

[EasterJoy]

This reminds me of that movie “Traffic” where that nice young girl becomes a junky and turns on her father. She’s out on the streets prostituting herself for drugs.

An oppressive husband (or wife) could even become that way for reasons for which he is not entirely culpable. If the reasons are entirely organic, he might not be culpable at all. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t a positive good for a woman to remover herself from a home in which she or her children are in danger. Honestly, it is also a near occasion of grave sin for her husband to have them there where he can abuse them. It is in the interest of every soul in the house for all occasions of the abuse to be denied.

To leave is not to judge the abuser’s or oppressor’s soul. To leave is to judge his actions and the likelihood that they will be repeated.