Opus Dei Saints or Sect

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Hi there,

I’ve been reading some books of Josemaria Escivá and reading some stuff about the Opus Dei of people both for and against. My personal impression is that the guys of the Opus are incredibly divoted Catholics that seek saintity through their daily jobs and actions. On the other hand, there are rumers and testemonies of ex-members that kind of give the idea that the Opus Dei is a sect. Also some texts of Josemaria seem to indicate blind obedience towards superiors and supression of women. What do you think or know?
 
There have been several threads on Opus Dei in the past. A very good one in Vocations about a year or so ago. Do a search for them.

The Opus Dei people I know personally are like your first description - devout people trying to live a life of sanctity. I am very drawn to Opus Dei myself. See if there is a center in your area or a group (forget the official name) and ask to visit and learn more. Best way to find things out!
 
I was thinking about joining Opus Dei myself. It is my opinion that the members of Opus Dei are great people, that Opus Dei is a great religious order, and that they are very devout and family oriented people. There is a bunch of negative connotations around Opus Dei and if you research it thoroughly you’ll see that it’s false, a lot of it comes from the Da Vinci Code which we all know was very inaccurate. I personally think that I am going to become an Oblate of St. Benedict because what Benedictine spirituality is all about is like Opus Dei in certain ways, Benedictines actually have been doing there work for God for 1500 years now. Benedictine spirituality is different in ways too, I think in addition to doing your work for God it also adds a good prayer routine and spiritual exercises; I personally just like the Benedictine spirituality. I love St. Josemaria Escriva, I pray to him every day, The Way is a great book and I think that Opus Dei is a great organization.
 
Hi there,

I’ve been reading some books of Josemaria Escivá and reading some stuff about the Opus Dei of people both for and against. My personal impression is that the guys of the Opus are incredibly divoted Catholics that seek saintity through their daily jobs and actions. On the other hand, there are rumers and testemonies of ex-members that kind of give the idea that the Opus Dei is a sect. Also some texts of Josemaria seem to indicate blind obedience towards superiors and supression of women. What do you think or know?
What you’re getting is a picture of American and European obsession with transparency. In our Euro-American culture we have turned transparency into a vice instead of a virtue. Any organizaion that attempts to exercise discretion, to reserve certain information for itself and its members is suddenly suspected of some nefarious activity. The truth is that Opus Dei operates like a family. No family is totally transparent. There is something to be said for privacy and discretion. There are some things thare meant only for the members of that family, even blessings and graces. God does not give blessings and graces to all equally, but to each according to his need. It is not necessary for the world to know everything that we do for God or that God does for us. Nor is it necessary for the world to know all of our sins either. It is enough to know that we are all sinful.

As far as St. Jose Maria’s teachings on obedience, what’s wrong with it and what’s so new about it? There again, our Euro-American culture shows its ugly side. We have been raised to suspect all authority, before authority has a chance to do anything wrong. We have been raised to believe that authority must be questioned at every turn. We have been taught to believe that authority only extends as far as we decide, which is a foolish thought, because every authority, religious and civil functions without the consent of the governed at some point or another. Does the President ask the citizens for permission to issue an executive order? Did he ask for permission to invade Iraq? Does he ask for permission to extend unemployment benefits to workers? No. Why not? Because people in authority have rights as well as duties. However, our Euro-American culture wants to pretend that those rights do not exist, especially when it comes to religious authority.

The truth is that St. Jose Maria has said nothing new. In his rule and admonitions St. Francis of Assisi binds his sons, under pain of mortal sin and excommunication to obey without questioning. He explains that even when authority is in error, we must obey and not question, because such obedience is pleasing to God and man. The Christian vocation is to love God and man. The only time that one may decline to obey is when commanded to do something that the Church, not us, only the Church, has condemned as sinful.

St. Teresa of Avila writes the same thing in The Way of Perfection for the Discalced Carmelites. St. Benedict wrote it into his rule.

The scriptures tell us that Christ was obedient even unto death. As I always tell those who are in formation, Pilate and Caiphas were wrong. But one does not get to heaven for being right. One gets to heaven for obeying as Christ obeyed, without murmurring, without resentment, without pride, and without questioning. This has been taught to us by the Masters of Catholic Spirituality.

Some people like to quote Aquinas on this subject and they misquote him. Aquinas said that no one had to obey a sinful command and that everyone had the right to think critically. He never said that superiors did not have the right to command and that subordinates had the right to question. The right to think is one thing. Questioning every command is childist or arrogance. The child asks "Why?’ at every turn. The arrogant simply want to find an excuse to impose their agenda. There is nothing new about obedience in the writings of St. Jose Maria Escriva. There is a lot of misunderstanding, because the poeple who are looking at his writing are unfamiliar with the history of Christian Spirituality. They think that St. Jose Maria pulled this out of his sleeve.

They’re being silly. Don’t worry about what writers say. Go and meet them. You may like them very much. I have found them to be friendly, prayerful, holy and very charitable.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
The members of Opus Dei are very pious, holy and devout. Extremely loyal to Holy Mother Church. Most of those stories told by so-called ex-Opus Dei members are fals, because they’ve probably some kind of angst against the Order. I, personally, do not believe them.
 
Hi there,

I’ve been reading some books of Josemaria Escivá and reading some stuff about the Opus Dei of people both for and against. My personal impression is that the guys of the Opus are incredibly divoted Catholics that seek saintity through their daily jobs and actions. On the other hand, there are rumers and testemonies of ex-members that kind of give the idea that the Opus Dei is a sect. Also some texts of Josemaria seem to indicate blind obedience towards superiors and supression of women. What do you think or know?
I don’t have a strong opinion on the main question, but have just a little advice on some of your supporting details.
  1. I would pay attention to the testimonies of ex-members, as personal experience is worth much more than theory. However, check the stories closely, and question the motives of the ex-member. There seem to be three types of “testimony” from "ex-"s, for any group: a. those who lie; b. those who tell the truth, but exaggerate their personal story to wrongly apply it to the whole group; those who’s story is true, and reasonably representative.
  2. If you are serious, then ensure that you give Opus Dei a “right of reply” to any objections you read about. Either talk to Opus Dei directly, or look for published responses.
  3. If a group asks for blind obedience, then that is entirely their right to expect it, and your choice on whether or not to give it. If you don’t agree with that vow, or don’t like it, then you shouldn’t join the group. Check your understanding of the expectations, fairly early in your decision making process. Talk to Opus Dei itself, but also, if you decide that some of the “ex-” testimonies are valid, see how it worked out for them.
 
John Allen, reporter with the National Catholic Reporter, wrote a book titled *Opus Dei *some years ago. Scott Hahn wrote Ordinary Work, Extraordinary Grace: My Spiritual Journey in Opus Dei You might like to check these out.

This is the official Opus Dei website.
opusdei.org.au/

This is a website devoted to the writings of St Josemaria Escriva, founder of Opus Dei
escrivaworks.org/book/the_way.htm

This is the website of a priest member of the prelature, Fr John Wauck. He started it, to answer questions about OD raised by the DVC. If you go to the archives you will find the questions.
davincicode-opusdei.com/

I am not a member of Opus Dei but I like their spirituality alot - finding God in everyday life. In Melbourne Australia we have one Opus Dei parish. The church is beautiful, it looks like God’s house, the priests hear confession often and the Masses are reverent. If I ever had a question about my Faith I would go to an Opus Dei priest because I know that they could be trusted to give an answer which is in accord with Church teaching. The lay people I know who are members of OD are ordinary people who work hard, love children and value their Faith. Opus Dei members seek to be “the leven in the dough”: they are found in all spheres of society and seek to raise society by their example of Christian living without being preachy or attempting to judge people’s eternal souls.
 
some texts of Josemaria seem to indicate blind obedience towards superiors and supression of women

Which texts and where in the texts?

I have a list of questions about Opus Dei answered by an ex member of Opus Dei. The list is too long to post but if you send me a message with an email address I will send you the list.
 
In every organization there is saint, in between and evil. The media tend to emphasize only the extremes, the mediocre is not very attractive. The problem is when people believe the media, and judge according to their emphasis.

As for the secrecy there are things which naturally shall be secret, (excretion, sexual life) but the rules of an organization can b secret only temporary, as Jsus told his closest Apostles no to tell some things, for a while. In long term the children of the light walk in transparency. In other hand I have a feeling the the secrecy of the Opeus Dei is the case: ‘the owl says to the sparrow: You have too big head’.
 
What you’re getting is a picture of American and European obsession with transparency. In our Euro-American culture we have turned transparency into a vice instead of a virtue. Any organizaion that attempts to exercise discretion, to reserve certain information for itself and its members is suddenly suspected of some nefarious activity. The truth is that Opus Dei operates like a family. No family is totally transparent. There is something to be said for privacy and discretion. There are some things thare meant only for the members of that family, even blessings and graces. God does not give blessings and graces to all equally, but to each according to his need. It is not necessary for the world to know everything that we do for God or that God does for us. Nor is it necessary for the world to know all of our sins either. It is enough to know that we are all sinful.

As far as St. Jose Maria’s teachings on obedience, what’s wrong with it and what’s so new about it? There again, our Euro-American culture shows its ugly side. We have been raised to suspect all authority, before authority has a chance to do anything wrong. We have been raised to believe that authority must be questioned at every turn. We have been taught to believe that authority only extends as far as we decide, which is a foolish thought, because every authority, religious and civil functions without the consent of the governed at some point or another. Does the President ask the citizens for permission to issue an executive order? Did he ask for permission to invade Iraq? Does he ask for permission to extend unemployment benefits to workers? No. Why not? Because people in authority have rights as well as duties. However, our Euro-American culture wants to pretend that those rights do not exist, especially when it comes to religious authority.

The truth is that St. Jose Maria has said nothing new. In his rule and admonitions St. Francis of Assisi binds his sons, under pain of mortal sin and excommunication to obey without questioning. He explains that even when authority is in error, we must obey and not question, because such obedience is pleasing to God and man. The Christian vocation is to love God and man. The only time that one may decline to obey is when commanded to do something that the Church, not us, only the Church, has condemned as sinful.

St. Teresa of Avila writes the same thing in The Way of Perfection for the Discalced Carmelites. St. Benedict wrote it into his rule.

The scriptures tell us that Christ was obedient even unto death. As I always tell those who are in formation, Pilate and Caiphas were wrong. But one does not get to heaven for being right. One gets to heaven for obeying as Christ obeyed, without murmurring, without resentment, without pride, and without questioning. This has been taught to us by the Masters of Catholic Spirituality.

Some people like to quote Aquinas on this subject and they misquote him. Aquinas said that no one had to obey a sinful command and that everyone had the right to think critically. He never said that superiors did not have the right to command and that subordinates had the right to question. The right to think is one thing. Questioning every command is childist or arrogance. The child asks "Why?’ at every turn. The arrogant simply want to find an excuse to impose their agenda. There is nothing new about obedience in the writings of St. Jose Maria Escriva. There is a lot of misunderstanding, because the poeple who are looking at his writing are unfamiliar with the history of Christian Spirituality. They think that St. Jose Maria pulled this out of his sleeve.

They’re being silly. Don’t worry about what writers say. Go and meet them. You may like them very much. I have found them to be friendly, prayerful, holy and very charitable.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Thank you for this interesting and underbuilt point of view.
 
Thank you all for your replies. I will check into the links and texts you’ve sent me.
 
The members of Opus Dei are very pious, holy and devout. Extremely loyal to Holy Mother Church. Most of those stories told by so-called ex-Opus Dei members are fals, because they’ve probably some kind of angst against the Order. I, personally, do not believe them.
As an ex-Opus Dei member I don’t know which testimonies you read, but I assure you that they are not false. I do not have any angst against Opus Dei, I just don’t agree the way that they force their members to live their spiritual path. By the way, Opus Dei is not an Order, is a Prelature
Also, people like you were saying the same about the ex-Legionaries and now we know that they were saying the truth…🙂
 
I know many people, including close relatives, in Opus Dei and I have grown very very fond of the spirituality of St. Josemaria Escriva. His writings are very beautiful, simple, profound and practical. I think Opus Dei is a powerful force of renewal in the modern Church.

I like to joke that the objections to Opus Dei from the leftists stem from the fact that the Jesuits are on their side.
 
I know many people, including close relatives, in Opus Dei and I have grown very very fond of the spirituality of St. Josemaria Escriva. His writings are very beautiful, simple, profound and practical. I think Opus Dei is a powerful force of renewal in the modern Church.

I like to joke that the objections to Opus Dei from the leftists stem from the fact that the Jesuits are on their side.
It’s funny that you mention that the left objects to Opus Dei. Guess what? So does the right. The SSPX does not appreciate them at all, nor do they appreciate the Jesuits either. I had to chuckle because two of the several theologians that the Holy See assigned to the dioalogue between the SSPX and the Vatican, one is from the Priestly Society of the Holy Cross (Opus Dei) and the other is from the Society of Jesus (Jesuit). Then they threw a Dominican in the middle to strike a blance. 😃

I’m just kidding, there are other theologians in there too. I believe they are diocesan priests.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
As an ex-Opus Dei member I don’t know which testimonies you read, but I assure you that they are not false. I do not have any angst against Opus Dei, I just don’t agree the way that they force their members to live their spiritual path. By the way, Opus Dei is not an Order, is a Prelature.
Why would anyone join Opus Dei if he didn’t want to follow the Opus Dei “spiritual path”?
That doesn’t make any sense to me.
 
As an ex-Opus Dei member I don’t know which testimonies you read, but I assure you that they are not false. I do not have any angst against Opus Dei, I just don’t agree the way that they force their members to live their spiritual path. By the way, Opus Dei is not an Order, is a Prelature
Every institute in the Catholic Church has its statutes and norms that govern it. I’m not sure if I would use the word “force” to describe the fact the Discalced Carmelites, Franciscans, and Benedictines are dismissed if they stray from the path outlined by the founders. Would you consider that forcing?

Every organization has a charism or a path that its members must follow. It’s not up to the members to decide what the path should be. You join them. They don’t join you.

Through the years that I have been a religious, I have seen many men dismissed because they do not conform to the spiritual path set forth by St. Francis and the constitutions. I have also seen men disciplined for it. Actually, discipline comes first, then you’re put on trial and if found guilty, you are dismissed. Some people may call this “forcing”.

It’s not forcing, because no one is obliged to join. The same is true of Opus Dei. If one joins, he discerns if this is the path for him. If he sees that it is not, you don’t change the organization, you simply leave. There is nothing wrong with the person who leaves or with the organization. It was simply not a good match. If you have to be asked to leave, then there is something wrong with you. One should not be so stubborn as to want one’s way when joining a larger body.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Well, I guess most argue in favor of the Opus Dei. I imagined that. Nevertheless, I’d like to come back on the issue of blind obedience to superiors. I understand now that this might be a cultural issue. But really, imagine Copernicus and other scientists would have blindly obeyed the superiors of the church. Where would we be now?

Also, blindly obeying is something you might want to do when you’re dealing with God, but with a superior human? Many times this has resulted in horrible things, also within the church. Say for example the silencing around sexual crimes involving priests…The clergy was apparently ordered to not bring these scandals out of the church. If the church is our mother, why would you keep those rotten apples in her and be so childish and inconsistent about aknowledging it and dealing with it. (What I am saying is, if you think critically and sometimes critically about decisions of superiors you might have better arguments and or results. After all, the superiour is just a human to.)
 
Well, I guess most argue in favor of the Opus Dei. I imagined that. Nevertheless, I’d like to come back on the issue of blind obedience to superiors. I understand now that this might be a cultural issue. But really, imagine Copernicus and other scientists would have blindly obeyed the superiors of the church. Where would we be now?

Also, blindly obeying is something you might want to do when you’re dealing with God, but with a superior human? Many times this has resulted in horrible things, also within the church. Say for example the silencing around sexual crimes involving priests…The clergy was apparently ordered to not bring these scandals out of the church. If the church is our mother, why would you keep those rotten apples in her and be so childish and inconsistent about aknowledging it and dealing with it. (What I am saying is, if you think critically and sometimes critically about decisions of superiors you might have better arguments and or results. After all, the superiour is just a human to.)
You’re putting together two things that don’t belong together.

Absolute obedience is not blind. Absolute obedience means that unless you’re commanded to sin, you obey and ask no questions.

I’m so tired of Catholics who bring up the sex abuse scandal every time that obedience is mentioned. It seem that the sex abuse scandal has become the American Catholic excuse for doing away with obedience as the great Catholic Masters taught it.

The Masters never taught anyone to sexually abuse children or to hide crimes. Trust me, there was a lot of sexual abuse in their times. Francis of Assisi lived during a time when priests lived with women, men, children and when bishops stole from the people and gave to the king. Not once does he say in his rule that one must do any of these things if ordered to do so. He commands absolute obedience, without question in all matters that are not sinful.

Let’s stop with the comparisons between sex abuse and obedience. Those who knowingly did what was wrong, were not doing what the Masters have taught us. Please stop telling people that it’s not safe or that it’s wrong to obey without questioning. That is contrary to our Catholic tradition. Our Catholic tradition has always taught that it is holy to obey and that obedience is the highest and most noble virtue.

It is wrong to obey what is sinful. It is Christ-like good to obey, even when the other side is mistaken. Please keep sin and absolute obedience separate and stop hurting Christian Spiritual Theology. Catholics are becoming the worse enemies of Catholic spirituality. That’s sad. We want to rewrite it. I can see why radical traditionalists have knee-jerk reactions sometimes. You can object to the sexual abuse scandal. You cannot equate it to the teaching of the masters concerning absolute obedience. When you do so, you’re rewriting Christian theology.

One more thing, Copernicus was never asked not to pose his theories. In fact, Pope Clement VII, when he heard of Copernicus’ theories was gratified and decided that the calendar needed some revisions. It is not clear whether Copernicus was a priest, but it is clear that he was a Dominican. Dominicans follow the rule of St. Augustine, absolute obedience. Therefore, there is no reason to suspect that Copernicus would disobey. Copernicus would have understood the rights of authority better than most of us. He was a Doctor of Canon Law.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Nevertheless, I’d like to come back on the issue of blind obedience to superiors.

If the church is our mother, why would you keep those rotten apples in her and be so childish and inconsistent about aknowledging it and dealing with it.
As I said earlier, it seems to me that whatever the form of “obedience” a religious order determines for itself, then the members make that choice when joining the order. It’s a voluntary thing, and a vocation.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about “blind obedience” in the Church, in general. I am a father, and I never expected blind obedience from my children. On the contrary, as my children grew older, I wanted them to be able to think for themselves. I never pretended that I had all the answers, or that I was never wrong. All I asked was: that my decisions and guidance be treated with respect; that when I made a final decision on a matter that it be accepted; and that they avoid arguing, delaying, or disagreeing over minor things, reserving any questioning for important matters. That is how mothers and fathers normally expect “obedience” from children, rather than “blind obedience”.

We are children of God, and of the Church, and more than slaves.
 
As I said earlier, it seems to me that whatever the form of “obedience” a religious order determines for itself, then the members make that choice when joining the order. It’s a voluntary thing, and a vocation.

I agree wholeheartedly with your comments about “blind obedience” in the Church, in general. I am a father, and I never expected blind obedience from my children. On the contrary, as my children grew older, I wanted them to be able to think for themselves. I never pretended that I had all the answers, or that I was never wrong. All I asked was: that my decisions and guidance be treated with respect; that when I made a final decision on a matter that it be accepted; and that they avoid arguing, delaying, or disagreeing over minor things, reserving any questioning for important matters. That is how mothers and fathers normally expect “obedience” from children, rather than “blind obedience”.

We are children of God, and of the Church, and more than slaves.
I believe the problem is that people don’t separate the difference between obeying legitimate authority and obeying an illegitimate command.

Superiors, religious and ecclesial (pastors, bishops and popes) have a right to command and those beneath them have an obligation to comply. They’re not always going to be right. However, even when we know that there is a better way of doing something or that it is better to do X rather than Y. If the command is not sinful, then we obey and we do Y.

Obedience is not blind. Obedience is not looking at who is right and wrong. Obedience looks at virtue. If something is a sin, then it’s not virtuous to obey. If something is just human error, but neutral, then the virtuous thing is to obey. Contrary to what people may think, you’re actually thinking and using your power of discrimination.

What we don’t do is argue, question and debate what is not a sin. If it’s not a sin, we comply. In order to distinguish between the sin, the good and the neutral, one must think. Therefore, one is not blind.

When you join an organization such as Opus Dei, they have rules and expectations. These are not sinful. Therefore, those who join them are bound to comply. If compliance is not possible, then you leave; but you don’t bad-mouth the organization.

I refer to my experience. St. Francis commands absolute obedience to him and to his canonically elected successors. The rule also commands absolute obedience to bishops and to the pope. If that’s impossible for me, then I don’t join, but I don’t badmouth Francis of Assisi or try to change his rule. It’s his outfit, not mine. Either I play by his rules or I leave.

Why is that so difficult to understand? 🤷

I have never heard Opus Dei command anything contrary to moral law or Church law. Either comply or don’t join; but don’t try to change them.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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