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Chancellare
Guest
If you do that, it’s like reading Ahmedinajad’s opinion about Israel.
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maurin
Guest
i have had nothing but positive experiences with Opus Dei, and although I do not have any “official” tie with them, I make it a point to attend their monthly evening of reflection whenever my work schedule permits.
I would recommend picking up a copy of St. Josemaria’s “The Way” as an introduction to the Spirituality. His writing is amazing-succinct, to the point and very well-aimed.
I do not discount others’ negative experiences with Opus Dei, however I do stress that one ought to experience for himself “The Way.” As in every other movement different communities express the spirituality in their own unique way. Human nature as it is causes a variety of expressions of the same idea: whether that expression be positive or negative.
I would recommend picking up a copy of St. Josemaria’s “The Way” as an introduction to the Spirituality. His writing is amazing-succinct, to the point and very well-aimed.
I do not discount others’ negative experiences with Opus Dei, however I do stress that one ought to experience for himself “The Way.” As in every other movement different communities express the spirituality in their own unique way. Human nature as it is causes a variety of expressions of the same idea: whether that expression be positive or negative.
I
IronHammer
Guest
This is what I am struggling with in my research of OD. The truth is out there somewhere. I tend to believe there is a gray area in regards to people giving negative testimonies but their particular experience may have been skewed by either mental illness (a very real possibility), misguided notions as to what they thought OD was about before they joined. Or perhaps these people just have a grudge against OD and the RCC in general and are simply stirring the waters with half-truths.
I am determined to get to the bottom of it all, if I can. The facts, as I see them thus far, are:
Fact: Scott Hahn, a highly respected, rational scholar is a member of OD and speaks very highly of his experience in his book Ordinary Work, Extraordinary Work (which I haven’t finished)
Fact: Several Popes, up to and including, B XVI, have “signed off” on OD as being a kind of panacea to today’s malaise of consumerism and relativist thought. A stronghold of traditional thought and practices.
Fact: Anti-Catholic attitudes have been the source of many ODAN type organizations in the past. Why would OD be treated any differently since it’s a Catholic institution?
I imagine the strongest critics of OD would be the ‘liberal’ catholics. These people are likely to support abortion, birth control or freedom of thought and choice, but who ultimately can’t stand that Rome tells them how they should be living their lives…which is the Pope’s job!
Sorry, I guess I don’t have a point this post. I am just airing my thoughts. After all, the thread is call “Opus Dei”
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IronHammer
Guest
I know it’s bad form to reply to one’s own post but I forgot to link to a very lucid and well-thought defense of OD I found at wikipedia.org. The first half of the article is a bit harried and shows signs of erratic assertions (they even put Benedict XXI instead of Benedict XVI).
But the second half that begins with Objections to the Critics is quite lucid and seems more solid in it’s conclusions.
Anyway, here is the link
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Controversies_about_Opus_Dei#Objections_to_the_critics
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Red_Meg
Guest
A few more data points for the Joe Fridays out there… 
There is a very thorough, three-volume biography of St. Josemaria now in print, called “The Founder of Opus Dei.” It looks like the first volume is a bit difficult to find, but the second and third are readily available from Amazon. St.Josemaria’s biography necessarily gives a lot of information about the Work.
Also, reporter John Allen, from the National Catholic Reporter, wrote a book about Opus Dei for Doubleday a few years ago. I felt it was pretty fair and accurate. Allen has no connection with the Work whatsoever, and frankly I’m not sure where he stands orthodoxy-wise, but he made a real effort to be unbiased.
Finally, amidst my googling around looking for these books, I found this from a priest I’ve never heard of, but it captures in pretty clear language the basic aim and structure of Opus Dei.
frcoulter.com/presentations/escrivatalk.html
Margaret
There is a very thorough, three-volume biography of St. Josemaria now in print, called “The Founder of Opus Dei.” It looks like the first volume is a bit difficult to find, but the second and third are readily available from Amazon. St.Josemaria’s biography necessarily gives a lot of information about the Work.
Also, reporter John Allen, from the National Catholic Reporter, wrote a book about Opus Dei for Doubleday a few years ago. I felt it was pretty fair and accurate. Allen has no connection with the Work whatsoever, and frankly I’m not sure where he stands orthodoxy-wise, but he made a real effort to be unbiased.
Finally, amidst my googling around looking for these books, I found this from a priest I’ve never heard of, but it captures in pretty clear language the basic aim and structure of Opus Dei.
frcoulter.com/presentations/escrivatalk.html
Margaret
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IronHammer
Guest
Just ordered a used copy of this book from Amazon an hour ago
I will check that link out. Thanks!
Pax Vobiscum
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Jo_Ann
Guest
This is what I am struggling with in my research of OD. The truth is out there somewhere. I tend to believe there is a gray area in regards to people giving negative testimonies but their particular experience may have been skewed by either mental illness (a very real possibility), misguided notions as to what they thought OD was about before they joined. Or perhaps these people just have a grudge against OD and the RCC in general and are simply stirring the waters with half-truths.
I am determined to get to the bottom of it all, if I can. The facts, as I see them thus far, are:
Fact: Scott Hahn, a highly respected, rational scholar is a member of OD and speaks very highly of his experience in his book Ordinary Work, Extraordinary Work (which I haven’t finished)
Fact: Several Popes, up to and including, B XVI, have “signed off” on OD as being a kind of panacea to today’s malaise of consumerism and relativist thought. A stronghold of traditional thought and practices.
Fact: Anti-Catholic attitudes have been the source of many ODAN type organizations in the past. Why would OD be treated any differently since it’s a Catholic institution?
I imagine the strongest critics of OD would be the ‘liberal’ catholics. These people are likely to support abortion, birth control or freedom of thought and choice, but who ultimately can’t stand that Rome tells them how they should be living their lives…which is the Pope’s job!
Sorry, I guess I don’t have a point this post. I am just airing my thoughts. After all, the thread is call “Opus Dei”
J
Jo_Ann
Guest
Oops! Sorry for the last post error I made!
Just wanted to follow up on this comment. I am a life-long Roman Catholic. I am very pro-life from conception to natural death, anti-death penalty, go to confession monthly, daily mass, and practice NFP. My childrren attend a very Traditional Catholic school.
I would not consider myself a “Liberal” at all. That being said, I would never get involved with Opus Dei. Nothing bad has happened at the few functions that I have attended, but it just wasn’t for me. I will leave it at that!
Just wanted to follow up on this comment. I am a life-long Roman Catholic. I am very pro-life from conception to natural death, anti-death penalty, go to confession monthly, daily mass, and practice NFP. My childrren attend a very Traditional Catholic school.
I would not consider myself a “Liberal” at all. That being said, I would never get involved with Opus Dei. Nothing bad has happened at the few functions that I have attended, but it just wasn’t for me. I will leave it at that!
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lukewarm
Guest
I don’t think that is true at all and a wild assumption.
Fact: Many many people have some flipping horror stories to tell about their time in Opus Dei.
Fact: If my child wanted to remain celibate and live in an Opus Dei compound while forking over his paycheck to pay for new mahogany curios for the Murray Hill HQ, I would have him kidnapped and deprogrammed…
Fact: Many ultra-orthodox priests are not advocates of Opus Dei.
Simple question if your child got involved in Opus Dei and wanted to become a Numerary and take on celibacy and live in an Opus Dei compound for life would you want that for them? Or would you feel that they should get out of that situation?
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IronHammer
Guest
Actually, I was pointing out that OD’s critics were very likely to be liberal. Unless you would classify yourself as anti-OD then you wouldn’t fit into that category. I applaud you, by the way, for your traditional values. I, too, am a traditionalist. I am sure that OD isn’t for everyone. Traditional catholics living a truly devout and pious life don’t need OD as they are already living the Way daily. My understanding of OD is that they are there to provide format and structure for those catholics who want guidance in the piety/devotion department.
Pax Vobiscum
B
bear06
Guest
I find that many of the complaints, the cult complaints, that I’ve seen from family members seem to stem from a child who’s converted or chose a life their parents did not have in mind for them. If you’ll notice, they’re almost always about the numeraries not the priests or supernumeraries. It seems that many parents have a problem with the fact that their children choose not to be married and devote their lives to God without joining a religious order. In fact, some have a problem even when their children choose a religious order.
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bear06
Guest
LOL. It’s funny I made my last post before I even read this. Yes, I would be supportive if my child decided on this vocation the same way I’d be supportive if my child joined a religious order or chose to devote her/his life to missionary work. Why would I feel they should get out of any of these situations.
As far as ultra-orthodox…I’m not sure what you mean by this. There are many fine, faithful, orthodox priests who support it so what’s the point. Which priests in particular are you talking about?
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IronHammer
Guest
As in post #71 on this thread points out, how is this really any different than my daughter becoming a cloistered nun in any number of different orders. We have convent not 30 miles away. I can only pray my daughters would at least consider this vocation!
J
JRKH
Guest
Fact: Get a large enough group of people together and some will have good experiences and some bad.
Fact: The people with bad experiences are more likely to talk/write about them
Fact: You have little faith in you child’s ability to make up their own mind, or live their own life.
Fact: Aske enough people and you’ll get the opinions you want, but they are still opinions.
Assuming that the child is of legal age, it is not my decision to make. I would want my child to live the life that gave them the most joy. What I would choose would be irrelevant.
Peace
James
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lukewarm
Guest
I think that’s nonsense what if you child said they were going to go off an join a scientology group and live in a compound and spread scientology.
I think people are being disingenuous here…
No I don’t trust an 18 year to always do what is best for them, that’s why I’m their parent.
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Sure
Guest
It’s not likely to be an issue, as Opus Dei has very very few numerary vocations in the US. That’s why they don’t have centers in many major metro areas. Also, we shouldn’t refer to numerary as a vocation. A numerary is an unmarried lay person, that is their vocation. The fact that they choose to join an organization doesn’t alter their vocation in any way. Their canonical status does not change in any way. The “vocation” to be a numerary is not much different than a “vocation” to join the Knights of Columbus.I find that many of the complaints, the cult complaints, that I’ve seen from family members seem to stem from a child who’s converted or chose a life their parents did not have in mind for them. If you’ll notice, they’re almost always about the numeraries not the priests or supernumeraries. It seems that many parents have a problem with the fact that their children choose not to be married and devote their lives to God without joining a religious order. In fact, some have a problem even when their children choose a religious order.
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JRKH
Guest
I certainly have no intention of getting into a “what if” debate. There is considerable difference between being unhappy about an adult childs decisions and actively attempting to impose your will on theirs.
The question becomes one of trust.
Have you raised them right?
Do you trust them?
Do you trust God?
Do you believe God will be with them and protect them?
Do you believe that the values you instilled by teaching and by example will stay with them?
Peace
James
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lukewarm
Guest
- No I don’t trust them, they’re immature children who are proven scientifically to be impulse driven
- No I don’t trust God in the sense that I don’t believe trust in Him can prevent disaster from occuring in my life.
- No I don’t, plenty of children are raped, murdered, fall into drugs etc… And I don’t believe this happens because the parents were sinners, or God simply didn’t like them.
- Not necessarily, children when growing up can have a tendancy to specifically abandon their parents morals and advice as a means of asserting their independence, it all depends on the child.
J
JRKH
Guest
Lukewarm,
Perhaps I now understand your username better.
Your lack of trust in God is most disturbing.
God gave you the greatest gift when He gave you free will.
Will you deny that same loving gift from your own child?
You are in danger of alienating your child further by holding on too tight and being too controlling. If your child rebels against this, it will be against you personally and you could lose any chance of influencing later decision. (I speak from experience here.)
I will pray for you and your faith.
May God grant you peace and the courage to let go.
May God be with you in your prayer life.
Peace
James
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bear06
Guest
I’m not being disengenious. First of all you didn’t use “age 18” as a marker. Secondly, you don’t just usually decide to become a numerary in two seconds (nor would they take someone who did). One just doesn’t say, I like those people therefor I’ll join up.
If I had an 18 year old who had thoughtfully and prayerfully considered their vocation in life, I’d be all for it. That said, I’m a bit pessimistic about having a child that would think that in depth at a young age but that’s just me. Heck, I know a girl who will be leaving for the Domincans at a very young age and I have very little doubt that she’s got the right calling.
As for Scientology vs. Opus Dei…Apples to oranges, big time! One is a cult and one is an approved (and in most faithful cirlces encouraged) Catholic prelature. This is starting to remind me of those who didn’t like St. Francis of Assisi’s rules.
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