Orange Diocese-Why hasn't our bishop and priests publicly opposed this Bill?

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GloriaPatri4

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I received a mass e-mail today regarding our Bishop’s inaction to speak out against the Homosexual Marriage Bill AB 849. I have not heard anything about this Bill from any of our diocesan priests and to my knowledge neither has anyone else. I am a roaming Catholic so I get around to different parishes in our diocese, so I think I would have heard about this bill by now. I believe since our bishop has not spoken out against this bill it has lead our diocesan priests into not speaking about it either.

My Protestant friends know all the facts about this bill where as most of my Catholic friends are totally unaware of it.

There is something wrong with this picture.

I have heard that this bill has been opposed by the California Council of Catholic Bishops so if that’s true why haven’t we heard anything about it?

**

AB 849 - Opposed by the California Council of Catholic Bishops
**Homosexual Marriage Bill **
AB 849

History
Assemblyman Mark Leno (D-San Francisco) twice brought his same-sex marriage bill up for a vote before the Assembly earlier this year. It failed both times. However, Leno didn’t give up. He gutted (removed the language) of a bill that had already passed the Assembly (AB 849), and amended it with language from his failed bill (AB 19).

Status
AB 849 is expected to pass the Senate within the next two weeks. When that happens, the bill WILL be sent to the Assembly for a vote by that house where it must be voted on no later than the September 9 deadline.** We have our BEST CHANCE to kill the bill where it already failed this year.**

The original bill (AB 19) failed the Assembly because several Democrats joined with all Republicans in voting against the bill, AND several Democrats abstained (didn’t vote). An abstention is the same as a “NO” vote.

ACTION: What can you do?
We need you to contact the following Assembly members who abstained earlier this year; thank them for their abstention and ask them NOT to give in to pressure by same-sex marriage supporters this time around. Encourage them to stand by their principles and either abstain or to vote “NO” on AB 849. They need to know we are watching and that we care!

**
 
Continued from last post
**

**
**Please be respectful at all times. **
Attitude counts as much as words.

Special note:

Please check the cities below;** if you live in a district** represented by one of the members, be sure to let his or her office know.

**The following four Assembly members abstained both times the original bill (AB 19) was voted on earlier this year. ******
**Phone calls are the most effective; however, if you decide to e-mail, click on the member’s name below and make sure you list the bill number and your position in the subject line. **
** ******Jerome Horton**** (D-51) Inglewood, Hawthorne, Gardena, Playa Vista, Lawndale, West Compton (916) 319-2051 Fax (916) 319-2151

** Gloria Negrete-McLeod** (D-61) Chino, Montclair, Ontario, Pomona
Code: 
        **(916) 319-2061  Fax (916) 319-2161**
** ******Simon Salinas**** (D-28) Salinas, Gilroy, Hollister, Watsonville
Code: 
        (**916) 319-2028  Fax (916) 319-2128**
** ******Tom Umberg**** (D-69) Santa Ana, parts of Garden Grove and Anaheim
Code: 
        **(916) 319-2069  Fax (916) 319-2169**
Please note:

Assemblyman Dymally voted “yes” on the first vote in the Assembly and “abstained” on the second vote.

** ******Mervin Dymally**** (D-52) Watts, South Park Compton, East Compton, Paramount
(**916) 319-2052 Fax (916) 319-2152**
 
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GloriaPatri4:
I have heard that this bill has been opposed by the California Council of Catholic Bishops so if that’s true why haven’t we heard anything about it?
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Since this seems to be the third thread about the Diocese of Orange in recent days – may I offer the suggestion that perhaps calling your bishop’s office and asking about these issues might get some direct responses.
 
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HagiaSophia:
Since this seems to be the third thread about the Diocese of Orange in recent days – may I offer the suggestion that perhaps calling your bishop’s office and asking about these issues might get some direct responses.
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Thanks for the suggestion. I might give them a call, although I suspect I won’t get too far.
 
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HagiaSophia:
Since this seems to be the third thread about the Diocese of Orange in recent days – may I offer the suggestion that perhaps calling your bishop’s office and asking about these issues might get some direct responses.
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Dear HagiaSophia,

You’re obviously not from around here.

I have called Bishop Brown’s office. (and so have many, many others.) He has issued no public statement on AB 19 (which was the first homosexual marriage bill in CA, introduced in Dec 2004) up until the present bill AB 849 - a bill re-written to avoid some procedures to get it passed more quickly thru senate and assembly- which began in June and will be going to the assembly anytime between now and Sept. 9.

And his office will not allow you to speak with the bishop (he doesn’t have time to speak to individuals, he’s busy, in a meeting, out of the office, out of town, gone for the day, etc) And they tell you that they will give him your message. “Write a letter” is usually part of the response.

Our Bishop Brown and our Bishop Soto, who handles the political stuff, have said nothing publicly on this , even though the church says “clear and emphatic opposition is a duty” from Consideration Regarding Proposals to …

They won’t even tell their priests to speak on Sundays at mass about it. And the priests and pastors won’t touch it because of a memo they all received a few years ago from Bishop Brown which told them to read an attached document that supported “domestic partnerships” and that he (Bishop Brown) agreed with the attachment, “which expresses very well my own thoughts on this subject” Dated Feb. 2000 initialed by Bishop Brown.

losangelesmission.com/ed/articles/2001/0201cc.htm
that’s a link to an article that talks about it.

Pro-homosexual Diocese of Orange. It’s been going on for years.

Heaven help us (Pope Benedict, help us!)
Angel
 
I will give an awnser, though it will not be considered the most charitable nor politically correct. The truth is that the Catholic church in Southren California is in effect, a mainline protestant church with poor liturgy. I am not saying their sacraments are invalid, but in terms of peopels worship life, the theology they are taught and so on, the church isint that far away from mainline Protestantism.
 
Angels Watchin:
They won’t even tell their priests to speak on Sundays at mass about it. And the priests and pastors won’t touch it because of a memo they all received a few years ago from Bishop Brown which told them to read an attached document that supported “domestic partnerships” and that he (Bishop Brown) agreed with the attachment, “which expresses very well my own thoughts on this subject” Dated Feb. 2000 initialed by Bishop Brown.

losangelesmission.com/ed/articles/2001/0201cc.htm
that’s a link to an article that talks about it.

Pro-homosexual Diocese of Orange. It’s been going on for years.
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I voted “other” because no, I haven’t heard anything but I’m not wondering why - it’s pretty obvious if you read this link and the one above.

http://www.ocregister.com/commentary/greenhut/greenhut60902.shtml

link above = “Roots of the Catholic’s Scandal” from June 2002

Angel
 
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JNB:
I will give an awnser, though it will not be considered the most charitable nor politically correct. The truth is that the Catholic church in Southren California is in effect, a mainline protestant church with poor liturgy. I am not saying their sacraments are invalid, but in terms of peopels worship life, the theology they are taught and so on, the church isint that far away from mainline Protestantism.
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You mean as in like the Episcopal Church (the liberal branch)? In that sense I will have to concur with your assesment. Aside from a certain apostolate based in San Diego, Mission San Buenaventura and Thomas Aquinas College in Santa Paula, I know of no other places in SoCal where Catholicism is expressed in the fullness of its orthodoxy.
 
Angels Watchin:
And his office will not allow you to speak with the bishop (he doesn’t have time to speak to individuals, he’s busy, in a meeting, out of the office, out of town, gone for the day, etc) And they tell you that they will give him your message. “Write a letter” is usually part of the response.

Our Bishop Brown and our Bishop Soto, who handles the political stuff, have said nothing publicly on this , even though the church says “clear and emphatic opposition is a duty” from Consideration Regarding Proposals to …

They won’t even tell their priests to speak on Sundays at mass about it. And the priests and pastors won’t touch it because of a memo they all received a few years ago from Bishop Brown which told them to read an attached document that supported “domestic partnerships” and that he (Bishop Brown) agreed with the attachment, “which expresses very well my own thoughts on this subject” Dated Feb. 2000 initialed by Bishop Brown.

In most large dioceses you won’t get through to the bishop but
be redirected to various ministries such as Family Life or Right to Life Directors to speak with their offices about what the diocese is doing.

However there is an alternative “back door” for you when it is about legislation. May I suggest that you go to the web site of the CCCB (Calif. Conference of Catholic Bishops). Tthey are after all the political “arm” for all the bishops of California. They have representatives in the halls of the legislature and it is their job to monitor all legislation which may impact Catholic life. They track all bills, advise the bishops, offer advice or backgrounders, etc.

Do a search on their website for the bill you are concerned about: if you find nothing or not much, contact them via email and ask them for what information they can offer and what their involvement is. If they have something, now you have “ammo” to present your bishop with and ask him what action he is taking. If nothing, write to both the Congregation of Bishops and the Dicastery for Family Apostolate in Rome with a copy to the nuncio. Make it clear you are disappointed that you were unable to get any action or information on this bill and include a brief summary of it. Also any news articles which show that your diocese leadership somehow doesn’t have much to say about it.
Let the materials speak for themselves – don’t badmouth the bishop, it gets you nowhere – just make sure your presentation speaks to the issue.

All of this takes time and effort but I believe more than one shepherd has been “suddenly inspired” by activists in his diocese

Good luck to all of you in the trenches, in the pews, on the sidelines, at the parish festivals, in the confessionals and at the Masses who are the “salt of the earth”. - as Sheen once said, it is your responsibility to make your bishops bishop their dioceses.
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The bishops of California are reported to have little influence in the state legislature.There obstruction of the pedophile cases and the archbishop of Los Angeles continued obstruction. Does not sit well with the legislators.
 
Angels Watchin:
Our Bishop Brown and our Bishop Soto, who handles the political stuff, have said nothing publicly on this , even though the church says "clear and emphatic opposition is a duty" from Consideration Regarding Proposals to …
Angel
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I guess Clear and emphatic opposition has a different meaning at Marywood than it does at the Vatican.
 
I guess a more important issue for the Bishop of Orange is to supress the indult traditional community as best as possible.
 
I could not care less :yawn: whether George and Bill down the street are married or not, as long as the Catholic Church is not forced to marry them.

Catholics, or any other Christians, who lead an exemplar life, do more to spread the value of the Gospel than all of the political activities by Church members, priests, bishops and Popes. :clapping:

How many aborted babies would have been saved over the years, if the pro-life activists had channeled their energies in a positive direction rather than in a negative one. :hmmm:

Kathie :bowdown:
 
I suspect the reason that Bishop Brown hasn’t spoken out on this is that the Catholic Conference of Bishops in California haven’t issued a position paper. According to the California legislature web site, the bill was supposed to be heard by the Senate Appropriations committee yesterday. It had been in their “suspended” file. The bill is identical to AB 19 (Leno, 2005) which failed to be passed.

Kathy,

This bill specifically exempts “priests, ministers and rabbis” from performing a marriage that is contrary to their religious teachings.

Deacon Ed
 
I will pray the Holy Spirit lights a very strong fire under your Bishops.:gopray2:
 
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harinkj:
I could not care less :yawn: whether George and Bill down the street are married or not, as long as the Catholic Church is not forced to marry them.

Catholics, or any other Christians, who lead an exemplar life, do more to spread the value of the Gospel than all of the political activities by Church members, priests, bishops and Popes. :clapping:

How many aborted babies would have been saved over the years, if the pro-life activists had channeled their energies in a positive direction rather than in a negative one. :hmmm:

Kathie :bowdown:
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I care. For the sake of children…

Ottawa, Aug. 26, 2005 (CNA) - A Canadian woman who grew up in a homosexual household in Toronto in the 60s and 70s says same-sex marriage does not respect or protect the rights and best interests of children.

Dawn Stefanowicz said as a child she was at high risk of exposure to contagious STDs due to sexual molestation, her father’s high-risk sexual behaviors, and multiple partners. She shared her personal story and her position on same-sex marriage in a statement at a pro-family rally in Ottawa on Parliament Hill in April.

Her father, who was molested by older males as a child, lived with depression, control issues, anger outbursts, suicidal tendencies and sexual compulsions. He died of AIDS in 1991.

Stefanowicz, who cared deeply for her father, noted that growing up in a gay household exposed her to "bathhouse sex, cross-dressing, sodomy, pornography, gay nudity, lesbianism, bisexuality, minor recruitment, voyeurism, and exhibitionism.” In addition, she said, “Sadomasochism was alluded to and aspects demonstrated. Alcohol and drugs were often contributing factors to lower inhibitions in my father’s relationships.”

After two decades of exposure to these behaviors, she became insecure, depressed, suicidal and confused over her own sexuality.

“I did not see the value of biological complementing differences of male and female or think about marriage. I made vows to never have children since I had not grown up in a safe, sacrificial, child-centered home environment,” she said.

“I can tell you that I suffered long term in this situation and this has been professionally documented … I witnessed that every other family member suffered severely as well … My gender identity, psychological well being, and peer relationships were affected.”

According to Stefanowicz, children should not be subjected to such an environment. “Same-sex marriage will put the human rights of the individual in a higher place than what is best for society, families and especially children.”

Stefanowicz says her experience is not that uncommon. She said research and personal testimonies indicate that children do best with both a mother and a father in a lifelong marriage bond. “Children need responsible monogamous parents who have no extramarital sexual partners. Parental promiscuity, abuse and divorce are not good for children.

“Children need consistent appropriate boundaries and secure expressions of emotional intimacy that are not sexualized in the home and community,” she wrote.

In addition, legalized same-sex marriage will provide “a direct legal entranceway of indoctrination, desensitization, personal and political recruitment of our vulnerable children by some gay activists within our schools while silencing all students who oppose the gay agenda.

“We have an obligation, for the sake of our children, to speak freely and to direct the laws of our land,” she wrote.

Stefanowicz is currently writing her biography, soon to be published.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I care. For the sake of children…

Ottawa, Aug. 26, 2005 (CNA) - A Canadian woman who grew up in a homosexual household in Toronto in the 60s and 70s says same-sex marriage does not respect or protect the rights and best interests of children.

Dawn Stefanowicz said as a child she was at high risk of exposure to contagious STDs due to sexual molestation, her father’s high-risk sexual behaviors, and multiple partners. She shared her personal story and her position on same-sex marriage in a statement at a pro-family rally in Ottawa on Parliament Hill in April.

Her father, who was molested by older males as a child, lived with depression, control issues, anger outbursts, suicidal tendencies and sexual compulsions. He died of AIDS in 1991.

Stefanowicz, who cared deeply for her father, noted that growing up in a gay household exposed her to "bathhouse sex, cross-dressing, sodomy, pornography, gay nudity, lesbianism, bisexuality, minor recruitment, voyeurism, and exhibitionism.” In addition, she said, “Sadomasochism was alluded to and aspects demonstrated. Alcohol and drugs were often contributing factors to lower inhibitions in my father’s relationships.”

After two decades of exposure to these behaviors, she became insecure, depressed, suicidal and confused over her own sexuality.

“I did not see the value of biological complementing differences of male and female or think about marriage. I made vows to never have children since I had not grown up in a safe, sacrificial, child-centered home environment,” she said.

“I can tell you that I suffered long term in this situation and this has been professionally documented … I witnessed that every other family member suffered severely as well … My gender identity, psychological well being, and peer relationships were affected.”

According to Stefanowicz, children should not be subjected to such an environment. “Same-sex marriage will put the human rights of the individual in a higher place than what is best for society, families and especially children.”

Stefanowicz says her experience is not that uncommon. She said research and personal testimonies indicate that children do best with both a mother and a father in a lifelong marriage bond. “Children need responsible monogamous parents who have no extramarital sexual partners. Parental promiscuity, abuse and divorce are not good for children.

“Children need consistent appropriate boundaries and secure expressions of emotional intimacy that are not sexualized in the home and community,” she wrote.

In addition, legalized same-sex marriage will provide “a direct legal entranceway of indoctrination, desensitization, personal and political recruitment of our vulnerable children by some gay activists within our schools while silencing all students who oppose the gay agenda.

“We have an obligation, for the sake of our children, to speak freely and to direct the laws of our land,” she wrote.

Stefanowicz is currently writing her biography, soon to be published.
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Where is the scientific study that proves this person’s position? Anecdotal events are worthless in proving anything.

Leading an exemplary life does far more to influence society than preaching. Look around and see how many wonderful Christian or Catholic families there are. Sadly too few. Maybe if we were more concerned with our own behavior this world would be a far better place.

One should not worry about doing God’s job, they should worry about doing the job God gave them which is taking care of their own spiritual health. Every time I have gone to confession, I have been obligated only to tell my own sins, not my neighbors. Isn’t there something in the bible about only non-sinners throwing the first stone. :tsktsk:

Kathie :bowdown:
 
I agree that going through the CCB is the best way, as a lobbyist in DC. And yes at least YOU should call your assemblyperson and tell your state senator (Not Boxer and DIFI). Please Annoy people, the squeky wheel gets the oil in politics some day. They, the CCB, should take stand or have reason for not doing so. I only hope its not out fear via lawyers for losing tax exempt status in the Socialist Republic of California. I hope all goes well we have a lot of clients in CA
 
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harinkj:
Where is the scientific study that proves this person’s position? Anecdotal events are worthless in proving anything.

Leading an exemplary life does far more to influence society than preaching. Look around and see how many wonderful Christian or Catholic families there are. Sadly too few. Maybe if we were more concerned with our own behavior this world would be a far better place.

One should not worry about doing God’s job, they should worry about doing the job God gave them which is taking care of their own spiritual health. Every time I have gone to confession, I have been obligated only to tell my own sins, not my neighbors. Isn’t there something in the bible about only non-sinners throwing the first stone.
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I don’t care at all about others sins. If you want to have sex with an animal, fine with me. However, the homosexual agenda is moving from making the “domestic partner” label to a marriage label. It has nothing to do with their sexual habits, who cares where they want to put their body parts for sexual gratification, but it opens to the adoption issue.
A simple Google search will revel much to you, like this…
The largest study, (30) and the only one based on a random sample, estimated that less than half of a percent of Americans have had a homosexual parent. Those who did were more likely to:


  1. *] report having had sex with a parent,
    *] experience homosexuality as their first sexual encounter,
    *] be sexually molested,
    *] become homosexual or bisexual, and
    *] report dissatisfaction with their childhood.

    The various studies, (31) added together, suggest that the children of homosexuals are at least 3 times more apt to become homosexual than children raised by the traditionally married.

    Further, there is reasonable evidence, both in the empirical literature and in dozens of court cases dealing with the issue, (32) that children of homosexuals are more apt to be sexually exposed to the homosexual lifestyle and/or molested.

    Finally, substantial evidence (31) suggests that children of homosexuals are more apt to doubt their own sexuality, be embarrassed by their homosexual parent(s), and be teased and taunted by their peers.
    1. Cameron, P. Cameron, K. Homosexual parents, Adolescence, 1996, 31, 757-776.
    2. Cameron, P. Cameron, K. Did the APA misrepresent the scientific literature to couns in suppon of homosexual custody? I Psychology, 1997, 131, 1-20.
    Code: 
    Now the question comes down to, do we want to put adoptive children into this enviroment?
AND, our government encouraging it?


Sometimes you have to fight for what's right.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
I don’t care at all about others sins. If you want to have sex with an animal, fine with me. However, the homosexual agenda is moving from making the “domestic partner” label to a marriage label. It has nothing to do with their sexual habits, who cares where they want to put their body parts for sexual gratification, but it opens to the adoption issue.
A simple Google search will revel much to you, like this…
The largest study, (30) and the only one based on a random sample, estimated that less than half of a percent of Americans have had a homosexual parent. Those who did were more likely to:


  1. *] report having had sex with a parent,
    *] experience homosexuality as their first sexual encounter,
    *] be sexually molested,
    *] become homosexual or bisexual, and
    *] report dissatisfaction with their childhood.

    The various studies, (31) added together, suggest that the children of homosexuals are at least 3 times more apt to become homosexual than children raised by the traditionally married.

    Further, there is reasonable evidence, both in the empirical literature and in dozens of court cases dealing with the issue, (32) that children of homosexuals are more apt to be sexually exposed to the homosexual lifestyle and/or molested.

    Finally, substantial evidence (31) suggests that children of homosexuals are more apt to doubt their own sexuality, be embarrassed by their homosexual parent(s), and be teased and taunted by their peers.
    1. Cameron, P. Cameron, K. Homosexual parents, Adolescence, 1996, 31, 757-776.
    2. Cameron, P. Cameron, K. Did the APA misrepresent the scientific literature to couns in suppon of homosexual custody? I Psychology, 1997, 131, 1-20.
    Code: 
    Now the question comes down to, do we want to put adoptive children into this enviroment?
AND, our government encouraging it?


Sometimes you have to fight for what's right.
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  1. I am offended by your use of the pronoun “you” in:

    “If you want to have sex with an animal, fine with me.”

    I do not believe my posts have been discussions of sex. My posts are simply talking about living an exemplarly life to influence others as the best way to improve society.

    All of the links above appear to be to the Family Research Institute.

    I have observed that gay males do appear to be very promiscuous. Probably very few would take advantage of a same gender marriage, but who knows.

    What I do deeply resent about this activism on moral issues by politicians is that the same politicians, who beat the right wing drum of forcing their morality on others, also vote to keep health care from the poor, cut Social Security, et cetera.

    I can only submit one simple reference. The Encyclical “Rerum Novarum” issued by Pope Leo XIII.

    To end on a lighter note. You did mention animals. It would be nice to marry my 16 year old, 57 pound sulcata tortoise. Not for sex or whatever. I just think it woud be absolutely wonderful to stand with St. Peter and perhaps Pope Leo XIII in the year 2180 looking down on Earth to hear a bureaucrat exclaim, “I don’t beleive it. We’ve been sending a survivor’s benefit Social Security check to this guy for 120 years.”
    • Kathie :bowdown:
 
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