Orans position

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PJR:
Yes I remember that thread. If I recall it went in endless circles about dementia. Talk about not being on the debate team. I felt the insults were flying there as well. No one is allowed to point out a different experience than yours without “well, maybe they did like it, but they were nuts.” The elder you know has arthritis, therefore everyone over the age of 65 no longer holds hands. Her experience was shaded by the poor souls dementia and she was too stupid to figure that out.

You presented yourself as an expert on dementia and diagnosed someone elses experience over the internet. You’re good.

And if you actually meant the response you gave to me about my mother…good grief. I have to admit, it shut me up.
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Wow! I had to go back and see where that was.
I apologize, truly. I thought you were saying that your mother and her friends had dementia. Honestly, I didn’t even see it was you, my heart went out to you.
That was my mistake. I’m sorry. However, working for years with Seniors with Dementia, I know how hard it can be for the children who have parents with problems and children to raise.
Again, I apologize.
 
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PJR:
Also claiming that your wisdom is in any way some kind of “pearl” is IMO an unbelievable, presumptuous, and arrogant use of a scripture passage. Do you realize that in the context you use this quote you are in effect calling this person an unworthy swine? A swine not worthy of faith?

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Then so did Christ. I quoted him. Matthew 6:7.
When I have given the amount of references and they are simply ignored, that’s all I can do. It’s not my information, it’s the Vatican’s. I find it very much to be pearls of wisdom.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Then so did Christ. I quoted him. Matthew 6:7.
When I have given the amount of references and they are simply ignored, that’s all I can do. It’s not my information, it’s the Vatican’s. I find it very much to be pearls of wisdom.
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I reallly was not coming back, but this is too serious to let go.

So now you equate yourself with Jesus in teaching & judgement? You quoted Jesus OK, but again your interpretation, and use is wrong. I did try to explain in my post about the footnotes from the Bible, which was also what my Pastor said.
How about the footnotes from NAB?

“The teaching of the gospel will be rejected by some precisely because it is holy…”
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The “pearls” refer to the gospel, not some inaccurate interpretation of documents. Who do you think you are that your interpretation of documents is equal to the gospel? This is a prayer posture, not a vital teaching.

There are Bishops and Priests who disagree with your interpretation, and as with other minor matters, I want to see if a report of this will even be addressed.

And the “swine” are those with no faith—who are you to judge me in this manner? How about “Judge not, least ye may be judged”?

Someday you will answer for your arrogance.
 
Deacon Ed:
In fact, this is the posture used by Eastern Catholics who follow the Byzantine Rite when praying the Lord’s Prayer!
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Likewise in the Antiochene rite.

Is there any theological background you’re aware of as to why the orans is mandated for the congregation?
 
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Searching13:
I reallly was not coming back, but this is too serious to let go.

So now you equate yourself with Jesus in teaching & judgement? You quoted Jesus OK, but again your interpretation, and use is wrong. I did try to explain in my post about the footnotes from the Bible, which was also what my Pastor said.

The “pearls” refer to the gospel, not some inaccurate interpretation of documents. Who do you think you are that your interpretation of documents is equal to the gospel? This is a prayer posture, not a vital teaching.

There are Bishops and Priests who disagree with your interpretation, and as with other minor matters, I want to see if a report of this will even be addressed.

And the “swine” are those with no faith—who are you to judge me in this manner? How about “Judge not, least ye may be judged”?

Someday you will answer for your arrogance.
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There are priests and probably some bishops that don’t agree with Transubstantiation. The argument presented here is not rational.

No argument is a matter of how many agree to the proposition or how few, rather it is a matter of what is right and what is true.
 
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Searching13:
How about “Judge not, least ye may be judged”?

Someday you will answer for your arrogance.
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Don’t those two lines seem to contradict each other my Dear Sister in Christ?
 
It was not addressed in the GIRM because it was addressed in many other documents like the Code of Cannon Law 83CIC/83907

“In the celebration of the Eucharist, Deacons and lay persons are not permitted to say the prayers, especially the Eucharistic Prayer, nor to perform the actions which are proper to the celebrating Priest.”

Also Ceremonial of Bishops
“Customarily in the Church a bishop or presbyter addresses prayers to God while standing with hands slightly raised and outstretched” (CB 104).

Also Book of Blessings
"…whenever there is a blessing which can be performed either by a member of the clergy or the laity, the rubrics invariably directs that “A minister who is a priest or deacon says the prayer of blessing with hands outstretched; a lay minister says the prayer with hands joined” (BB 1999).

Instruction on Collaboration (Nov. 13, 1997)
“Neither may . . . non-ordained members of the faithful use gestures or actions which are proper to the . . . priest celebrant” (ICP, Practical Provisions 6 §2).

Most of this is found right on CA.

These documents are from the Vatican. I think that they are pearls of wisdom.
Some people would prefer to ignore them, so there is no sense laying them anywhere.
If anyone has a problem with them, including Pastors, take it up with the Vatican. I would be interested in how it turned out.
 
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