Orans posture prohibited during Lord's Prayer

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tafan2 said:
Its really not a matter of intent. I
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As intent is important to God, it should be important to use. I think someone who always prays in the posture in more innocent than someone who for whatever reason believes it to be wrong and prays in defiance. Lack of intent to defy is one thing that allows for organic change in the liturgy, even if it comes from Protestants or charismatics.
 
I doubt God cares, even a little bit about how someone positions their arms while they are praying.
 
I bet God cares more about a person who rejects an outreached hand.

Jim
 
We have a majority doing the Orans posture. And most people hold hands during the Our Father. For Communion the lector makes an announcement before Communion advising those “Catholics who are not prepared to receive the Eucharist or others not of our Faith, to cross their hands over their chest to receive a blessing from a minister or celebrant.”

So in that way no one is singled out for staying back in the pew while others go forward. I guess if people understand that difference, than it can work out for being more discreet.

As a new convert, I spent many years locked in a critical rigorism, monitoring everyone and keeping a running list of things that weren’t being done “right.” But I’ve stopped doing that because I realized I wasn’t in charge of the Mass or the priest or the parishioners. The priest sees what’s going on. It’s on him to say something or change things if he perceives it needs to be done. It’s been a lot better for me spiritually to just focus on my own faults and failings as a I prepare for Communion.
 
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It really upsets some people who don’t want to hold hands period.
In my archdiocese (Vancouver), even shaking hands at the sign of peace is becoming more rare due to Asian influence. A bow of the head prevails now in many places including the cathedral. I get sick often enough with my son in daycare… the less hand contact with strangers the better (brothers and sisters in Christ or not… heck if a bow of the head isn’t enough for you, I’ll gladly do a full bow).
 
We hold hands at my little Parish. I was a little surprised about this thread and now I’m going to have to ask my priest about this orands posture. Everyone in our church does it during the Our father if they’re not holding hands with someone. No one has ever told me otherwise that it was something we shouldn’t do. When I first started coming to this church my sponsor said to just do what everyone else is doing. Which included holding our hands up during the Our Father.
Newly confirmed Catholic in 2017!
 
I personally do not use Orans posture out of obedience and respect. I asked if it were permissable and the answer I received is that it is not. That was enough for me. I’m not trying to convince anybody not to do it. If you really want to know, you can ask, and see how your priest feels about it. I bet some will say it’s okay (with them), and others will say “well, you really should not”.
 
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Peeps said:
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pnewton:
It is also worth noting that for a lot of people from the charismatic side, what the Church calls “orans” is “raising of the hands.” There is no intent or thought of imitating the priest.
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EXCELLENT!! And so true.

Thank you for recognizing that not everyone has the same frame of reference. My husband grew up Pentecostal and raising hands in prayer is almost automatic, and certainly not intended to imitate an authority figure.

That being said, I do think there’s value in not raising hands during the Our Father because of people who can’t get past the gesture and feel like it’s an imitation of the priest. In other words, it’s good for us to be mindful of the weaknesses of others. My husband does not raise his hands during the Our Father.

But that works both ways–those who are uncomfortable with hand-raising need to realize that a lot of people who grew up with it aren’t doing something that is forbidden by the rubrics, and they aren’t trying to imitate the priest or usurp his priestly privileges.

My one suggestion for former Pentecostals is to perhaps raise their hands during other prayers during the Mass; e.g., my husband and other people pray with hands raised (not high above the head) during the time that they are kneeling after receiving Holy Communion.
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Good post.

My biggest pet peeve about the people doing the Orans Posture during the Our Father is the fact that most of them don’t do it when praying the Our Father outside of Mass.

For example, one parish near my office has the Evening Prayer before Mass. There’s about 10 minutes between the two. Lots of people attend Evening Prayer and then stay for Mass.

During Evening Prayer, only about 1 or 2 people use the Orans Posture for the Our Father during Evening Prayer. But then a number of them who didn’t do it during Evening Prayer do it during Mass.

That’s what gets my goat. If you are going to raise your hands for the Our Father - do it every time you pray it. Not just during Mass.

God Bless
 
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And if there is a Deacon assisting, notice he refrains from using Orans Posture. 🙂
 
s.cono said:
And if there is a Deacon assisting, notice he refrains from using Orans Posture. 🙂
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I’ve seen two Deacons do the Orans Posture. 😦

But what I’ve NEVER seen, is a priest in choir doing to the Orans Posture.
 
Well, by that standard, we could rationalize a lot of things that are not defined in the rubrics. The issue is, then, what is the point of rubrics? We could lock arms and sway during the singing (and I think this would be appropriate with some songs).

We could crawl on our hands and knees to communion . If we apply a standard that something is not proscribed by the rubrics then it could lead to chaos.

If I had a copy of the rubrics, I would search for what is appropriate for the congregation. Loosely I think they would have simple directions, like, sit, stand, or kneel, or specify the responses. I think the implication would be to not make up things that are not there.
 
Don’t understand what you are saying??
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You know when priests attend a mass, but wear a cassock and surplice (with stole), but not concelebrate the mass? That’s what I mean by sitting in choir.

There are a number of priests who attend Mass with out archbishop on Sunday nights, after they have already celebrated Mass. So they just sit in choir, wearing their cassock and surplice (looking like seminarians or altar servers, until the Liturgy of the Eucharist and communion when they put their stoles on.

When they do that, I’ve never witnessed on doing Orans Posture during the Our Father.
 
Maybe, subconsciously, parts of the wording in Matthew 6:5 comes to some people’s minds when they see other people doing something in prayer that they construe as being unconventional? Going out on a limb here.
 
I don’t do it. I find it feels weird. I don’t mind those who do this posture.
 
Ok, call me rude. I was raised in a culture where holding hands is an intimate gesture. If I am holding hands with a non family member, likely my hand is sweating profusely. The odds of me being able to actually pay attention and pray the Our Father is nil. I am very uncomfortable doing it. I am just not a PDA type of person, especially with a stranger.

What is rude is expecting a stranger to hold your hand. What is surprising is that there are still people who have not figured this out.
 
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