Ordaining Female Catholic Priests

[Tantum_ergo]

Handy quote for women intent on avoiding the responsibility of authority, and a ready made excuse to complain about others who do embrace responsibility for themselves, and all those they serve. Not limited to the petty complaints of their husbands, but to their communities, their government, and their God. Indeed, it’s a very nasty habit for any Catholic of any gender or age to embrace- the negation of free will, and denying the gumption it takes to sweep your own porch or show up with 5 potential solutions in your hands instead of just complaints.

That quote applicable to all of womankind feeds 2 wrongful presumptions. That no woman has the capacity to lead with fidelity to the higher calling we are all compelled as sincere Christians to serve. It also presumes that the same commandeering of higher calling for malevolent purpose (deception) is restricted to gender. This same malevolent purpose endangers both genders (equally) and the same tools inflicted upon each corrupt their service for nefarious purposes (equally). Darkness is not any darker for a man than it is a woman. -30 degrees is not colder for one gender or another. Noble and weak character traits, good and evil, are not mutually exclusive to either gender.

Aimée Semple McPherson is another character in history illustrating your quote. How different is the leadership/ answer of a higher calling from charismatic male leadership? The same speeches of one could be spoken by the other and you’d never discern the difference. All down the line have served a higher calling, however IMO have failed to serve a higher calling poorly understood equally badly. The philosophical foundations were manifestly unsound. 7 million people in 4square gospel disagree with me. No bearing on gender whatsoever.

Contrast this with the Queens of England. Their commitment & discipline to a well articulated higher calling is vastly different. They’ve served their Kingdom well and earned the loyalty of a nation far beyond luck of the draw birthright. The rigors of duty attended graciously, the moral compass of the Kingdom rescued by the hands of women from the disgraces of King Henry the 8th & Bloody Mary alike. Queen Anne Boleyn sacrificed her life not for vanity, materialism, or path of least resistance, but for morality itself upholding her oath to God. Order to the Kingdom restored amidst incomprehensible layers of treachery preying upon her nation from all directions. Seeds of dissent sown by enemies foreign and domestic in every social strata, the Virgin Queen sacrificed her very lineage for the best interest of her Kingdom. Hitler was attributed characterizing the Queen Mum as “the most dangerous woman in Europe”.

Your quote applies to a slew of male Presidents surrounded by ambitious advisers void of higher calling. That very same quote applies to the Holy See the day he’s surrounded by ambition or a criminal enterprise attempting to circumvent the higher calling. That same quote applies to a devoted loving husband deceived to join the military in ‘defense’ of his nation/ wife/ family based on false accusations of threat to all he holds dear, when grievous offense in league with evil was what he actually served. No human being of any faith is immune, but every prejudice you, I, or any other harbors becomes the means of predators to inflict their worst damage & conscript the noblest of intentions.

Actually it was the Catholic Queen Katherine of Aragorn who wound up sacrificing her life to God for religious principles and upholding her oath to God. . .that she was the true wife of Henry VIII. Anne Boleyn was accused (on trumped up charges) of treason/sexual immorality. She did not sacrifice herself, she was sacrificed by a bunch of men looking for power.

Why do you call Queen Mary Tudor “Bloody”? How many Catholics were executed in the reign of “Good Queen Bess?” And “Bess” acted alone. Mary was married to Philip of Spain and was advised by her councilors to act ‘harshly’ to assure Philip’s safety. Elizabeth not only totally ILLEGALLY imprisoned her cousin Mary Queen of Scots, she also (illegally) tried her for murder, though Mary was not allowed to hear or see much of the evidence (most of which relied on the forged Casket letters) and though Mary was a crowned Queen of Scotland and the Dowager Queen of France. . . and after 17 years Elizabeth SIGNED THE WARRANT that called for Mary’s execution. Beheaded.

And you call Mary Tudor “Bloody Mary” but extol Queen Bess. . .

As for Aimee, she had a troubled life, some of which she brought on herself.

 

[EzraJacob]

Handy quote for women intent on avoiding the responsibility of authority, and a ready made excuse to complain about others who do embrace responsibility for themselves, and all those they serve. Not limited to the petty complaints of their husbands, but to their communities, their government, and their God. Indeed, it’s a very nasty habit for any Catholic of any gender or age to embrace- the negation of free will, and denying the gumption it takes to sweep your own porch or show up with 5 potential solutions in your hands instead of just complaints.

That quote applicable to all of womankind feeds 2 wrongful presumptions. That no woman has the capacity to lead with fidelity to the higher calling we are all compelled as sincere Christians to serve. It also presumes that the same commandeering of higher calling for malevolent purpose (deception) is restricted to gender.

You are the only one here saying Women have no other use then to serve their husbands and have no higher calling. Indeed St. Teresa of Avila had a higher calling. She reformed the Carmelites. OR the Blessed Virgin who gave birth to our Lord and savior. Or Nuns in charged of their orders?

I never can understand how being barred from Priesthood, or being a Bishop and so on is limiting women to higher callings. And in arguing so, it is you who is putting down all of the great women from before. If Catholics against women ordination are truly treating women so bad, at at such lower levels, then that slanders all of the works of great women.

St Joan of Ark was soooooooo kept from a higher call! St. Faustina was sooooooo kept from a higher call! I guess next you will say God himself kept the Blessed Virgin from a higher call. Heck, why did God have to come as a man anyway?!

And its not about women not being good leaders. St. Joan of Ark showed that to be false. But its because the Priesthood, standing In persona Christi, is something a women can not do. Women have a spiritual calling of their own, as well as men.

 

[GKC]

Actually it was the Catholic Queen Katherine of Aragorn who wound up sacrificing her life to God for religious principles and upholding her oath to God. . .that she was the true wife of Henry VIII. Anne Boleyn was accused (on trumped up charges) of treason/sexual immorality. She did not sacrifice herself, she was sacrificed by a bunch of men looking for power.

Why do you call Queen Mary Tudor “Bloody”? How many Catholics were executed in the reign of “Good Queen Bess?” And “Bess” acted alone. Mary was married to Philip of Spain and was advised by her councilors to act ‘harshly’ to assure Philip’s safety. Elizabeth not only totally ILLEGALLY imprisoned her cousin Mary Queen of Scots, she also (illegally) tried her for murder, though Mary was not allowed to hear or see much of the evidence (most of which relied on the forged Casket letters) and though Mary was a crowned Queen of Scotland and the Dowager Queen of France. . . and after 17 years Elizabeth SIGNED THE WARRANT that called for Mary’s execution. Beheaded.

And you call Mary Tudor “Bloody Mary” but extol Queen Bess. . .

As for Aimee, she had a troubled life, some of which she brought on herself.

Katherine died a natural death, you know.

Both Liz and Mary executed folks; they did stuff like that, in the day. Per annum, only being on the throne for 5 years, as opposed to Liz’ 45, Mary was a little bloodier. Though I no longer can, as I once could give you actual figures. Mary’s average was around 80+ a year. Liz, I don’t remember. But her opportunity to run up the total was one of results of Pius excommunicating her, demonstrating the law of unintended consequences.

The Mary Queen of Scots thing was complicated. But, in the end, yes, Elizabeth had a potential rival executed.

BTW, that’s a strange post you were responding to. Carry on.

GKC

 

[Jack_Bauer]

Katherine died a natural death, you know.

Both Liz and Mary executed folks; they did stuff like that, in the day. Per annum, only being on the throne for 5 years, as opposed to Liz’ 45, Mary was a little bloodier. Though I no longer can, as I once could give you actual figures. Mary’s average was around 80+ a year. Liz, I don’t remember. But her opportunity to run up the total was one of results of Pius excommunicating her, demonstrating the law of unintended consequences.

The Mary Queen of Scots thing was complicated. But, in the end, yes, Elizabeth had a potential rival executed.

BTW, that’s a strange post you were responding to. Carry on.

GKC

Elizabeth killed more people than Mary. Ironically, we never call her Bloody Lizzy… And I know that Lizzy Bordon took an axe isn’t a story about her. A historian, PhD, taught a class in our faith formation.

 

[GKC]

Elizabeth killed more people than Mary. Ironically, we never call her Bloody Lizzy… And I know that Lizzy Bordon took an axe isn’t a story about her. A historian, PhD, taught a class in our faith formation.

Yes, I know. Old Liz had 9 times as much bum-on-throne time to act like a 16th century monarch. Bound to win, in the totals.Not really fair to Mary.

GKC

 

[nordskoven]

It’s called “THE SIN OF ADAM” not the “Sin of Adam & Eve.” Male-only priests–not all males–are called as ALTER CHRISTI to atone for the Sin of Adam. Adam blew it. When he ate, sin and death came into the world. Not so for the Woman.

Woman, and through her, her Seed (collective term nicely defining Christ and the Body of Christ) were given their own, separate divinely-mandated power and authority–to crush the head of Satan and his seed. God Himself cursed Lucifer and his seed with the Woman & Seed.

So WWSD? What Would Satan Do? Sidetrack women to the priestesshood so there’s no Real Presence, no Body & Blood of Christ offered in atonement for sin; no valid Confession that Christ died for as the New and Eternal Covenant–so that sins may be forgiven. Good job, Satana!

Because if we’re going to gender bend the Bible, let’s have Satana, the she-demon, Mother of Lies and Murder; and all her little demonesses; due to have their heads scrunched by Man & Seed. Hey! That works for…Luciferians. Female priests are a forensic, legal impossibility. And in those eras when women were pop culturally blamed for THE SIN OF ADAM, there was the highest oppression of women. Good job, Satana! Gotta give the deviless her due! Seriously, no woman is going to go for a systemic genderless free-for-all because when stuff gets shaken not stirred, as with “no-fault divorce,” it’s women and children last. Apostates, step off. The remnant shall triumph.

PS The pornographic website created by homosexual priests, St. Sebastian’s Angels, (cached somewhere if you can stomach it) posited that the best strategy for ordination of openly-homosexual priests was: 1. Lobby for married Roman Rite priests. 2. Lobby for women priests. 3. VOILA! Lobby for openly homosexual priests who will then be free to love "St. Sebastian’s Angels…Boys. But that’s ok if it’s just ephebophilia, right? Eight isn’t too late. Laws can be changed. “Hail, Satin” as the AOL Catholic chat roomies would so often misspell.

 

[EzraJacob]

PS The pornographic website created by homosexual priests, St. Sebastian’s Angels, (cached somewhere if you can stomach it) posited that the best strategy for ordination of openly-homosexual priests was: 1. Lobby for married Roman Rite priests. 2. Lobby for women priests. 3. VOILA! Lobby for openly homosexual priests who will then be free to love "St. Sebastian’s Angels…Boys. But that’s ok if it’s just ephebophilia, right? Eight isn’t too late. Laws can be changed. “Hail, Satin” as the AOL Catholic chat roomies would so often misspell.

How is such a thing able to happen? How can a homosexual, fully knowing that homosexual activities are grave sin, not only commit them but become clergy?!?!

I googled St. Sebastians Angels and found a website. But it seems false and something that an Anti-Catholic would print. But according to an article from Catholic Culture, the website I read from was an actual Catholic website that helped bring these people who abused their roles into the light.

 

[Captain_America]

Jumping in sort of late here perhaps, but I come from an atheist background, with strong feminist leanings (at the time).

During my conversion, the male-only aspect of Catholic priesthood was something I knew about, but did not know why. So, I went to a B&N, sat down with “Catholic For Dummies”, read something about women are mothers, men are priests, and promptly chucked the book across the room in disgust (literally). It sounded like a hollow excuse.

But, at the time, I had come to realize that I just did not understand a lot of things about religion, God and especially Jesus Christ. So, I just kept quiet and watched and waited to see what I would learn.

There came a point, while reading about something else in the CCC, that I came across the teaching on the priest acting in persona Christi. It hit me then, that I was not offended that Jesus Christ, the Word of God, became Incarnate as a male. Why should I be offended that a priest, who is acting in the person of Jesus Christ, is also male?

I find arguments towards “women are inferior” without the priesthood, to be sexist in nature. That is, somehow we aren’t complete without Holy Orders? I don’t think so, and reject that idea, entirely.

Since then (that was 4 or 5 years ago), I have come to realize that some people have a strong desire for service to God. Holy Orders is a very visible way in which that desire is fulfilled, and so people (male and female) get fixated on it. But it is not the only way, and not even a superior way. It is a way to be a servant of Jesus Christ. In a discernment process, one aspect is that one is aligning themselves to the teachings of the Church. So, it should be easy and clear, that discernment to priesthood by a woman, is a desire for service that can be fulfilled elsewhere. To think this is inferior is wrong-headed. Who would, for example, ever say to any of our female Saints that they discerned incorrectly?

It is not inferior for anyone to serve in any other capacity. To believe otherwise, is lacking in a Christian view. To believe that one is lacking in something because they are female and cannot be a priest, is risking a view of the Sacraments that is materialistic in fashion.

I don’t see an all male priesthood as saying something about men being superior and women being inferior. I think those who think I should have this view, are saying something about themselves, not me. I understand clearly how God views me, and everyone else too.

Peace.

Some good points worth considering, and I would add that many men recognize that women have particular strengths that we lack. So it goes. I think the mature view is “apples and oranges” and complementarity.

One problem with this discussion is the usually-unspoken assumption of practical power that goes with being a parish priest.

Another unspoken notion is that many men believe their local parish is already being run by the women!

 

[Tomcmaj]

How can a homosexual, fully knowing that homosexual activities are grave sin, not only commit them but become clergy?!?!

Ask all those who are currently members of the clergy…

 

[EzraJacob]

Ask all those who are currently members of the clergy…

There is a need for a cleansing. I love the church dearly. But some of the stuff I have been reading scares me. Feminist orders of nuns who teach new age, homosexual clergy who do not take their vocations and vows seriously, Catholics who are pro-choice and support gay marriage, etc.

They all need to be kicked out and excommunicated until they recant their views and even then, be banned from religious orders.

 

[Tomcmaj]

They all need to be kicked out and excommunicated until they recant their views and even then, be banned from religious orders.

Well, that’s one way of trying to solve the problem.

 

[EzraJacob]

Well, that’s one way of trying to solve the problem.

Is there any other way?

 

[Kelley_Green]

I have a propensity to speak my mind, but I try not to step on other people’s toes. If I do step on your toes, I apologize. Please, feel free to give me a swift kick and let me know, so I can try not to do it, again.

I’m glad you speak your mind, and I’ll take you up on that offer. It’s not a swift kick you’re getting. It’s a dump truck worth of nonsense that doesn’t belong to me but heaped upon by left brain theologians, and conscripting my free will against God’s will.

This issue of women becoming Priests is mainly due to individuals viewing it from a strictly secular point of view, judging the Church’s position by those same secular opinions that are more political than spiritual.

The legalisms of the catechism apply to secular life but they’re written in a think tank so this contrivance of separation is false. It’s separate when they choose to interpret it that way, and always born on the flock. 200 million more legalisms could be concocted, but if they’re undeliverable or false, there will not be compliance. It’s not all about pride or laziness of the flock as a whole.
You’re misdirecting accountability from yourselves claiming this is about secularism. It’s about pernicious unhealthy relations & utter ignorance of womankind from top down interfering with my personal relations & spiritual life. I haven’t joined the emergent Church, but they’ve been trying to say the same thing for the better part of the last century. Conservatives and liberals. Catholics and protestants. Men and women.

The RCC is not a secular or political entity. It never has been and never will be. It’s a spiritual institution created by God.

If that were so the Vatican would never send a delegation to congress to grasp a pen. Father Fleger’s mission is? Conservative Cardinals are making outlandish statements imposing demands far beyond the catechism to suit their personal political preferences. Oftentimes these proclamations serve as a means to maintain ignorance & prejudice, instigating strife, and discouraging peace. The Vatican has seemingly forgotten the wise reasons they let go of temporal power. It’s time to improve articulation, mind separation of Church and state, and apply creative approaches to old problems.

As far as the roles of men or women in the Church goes, they’re different because God created men and women to be different.

Your definition of ‘different’ put me in an entirely different species. RCC reverts to an abstract entity when it comes time to being accountable (the Church made me do it), but any other time doling out credit and accolades, it’s individuals. Works just like a corporation, but it’s not, but it is.

Reminds me of a little boy who came to his uncle Sal’s house for a large family gathering and for a thrill took off his socks and flushed them down the toilet clogging it. When his uncle confronted him he denied it a few times, then settled on the answer the ‘wolf’ did it. His invisible friend, you see. His uncle put him on notice that this wolf is not welcome, and if he invited him, it’s his responsibility to keep that wolf behaving or tie him to a tree in the backyard with the dog.

Yes, I am saying the Vatican needs to go sit by their dish. They left me no choice.

He assigned them separate roles in every aspect of life, including the spiritual way of life. Why is that so hard to grasp?

FICTION: With omnipotent powers the Vatican knows what gifts my maker bestowed me before I was ever born and has comprehensive knowledge of the tests/ trials delivered by my maker on my doorstep daily.
FACT: They’ve never been able to articulate any definition of womankind that doesn’t orbit around their own self concepts, which are also painfully contrived setting the stage for frustration. It’s a closed loop self fulfilling prophecy goading culture into prejudice, and guarding that prejudice in the name of tradition.

The closer we get to God, spiritually, the more we begin to understand what our roles are and why God set them up as He did. There is a Divine purpose, that only He knows, for it to be that way. He is the only one that can explain it, fully.

If only you could walk your talk on that statement. The corporation already decided what rigid assignment of what roles, what ought to be separate, and who would be divorced from meaningful discussions. Uniforms are man made constructs. Unisex uniforms cannot help but be disrespectful to both genders, but serving the mission in our true capacity is the point. Uniforms have an obligation to be utilitarian.

Our duty as Catholics is to faithfully accept what the Church teaches and follow it, because it’s the truth that was revealed to us by Jesus Christ, through the Holy Spirit, for the benefit of us all.

I do not accept blind obedience and it runs contrary to free will. In defense of MY faith, I have a moral imperative to refuse to follow what I know in my upbringing, in my heart, in scriptural reference, and the spirit of new covenant to be manifestly wrong.

It is God’s Will for it to be like this. It’s not our place to question Him.

I question God with a willing heart to learn. I question men standing behind God/ Church, rather than before it, filling in blanks with answers convenient to support a one eyed world view. I take issue with them when they habitually make themselves a source of strife and not a channel of peaceful resolutions.
-cont’d-