Ordinate of the chair of St Peter BCP?

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liturgyluver said:
That’s not the Kyrie, just a versicle response that is in all the other Prayer books. I have never seen the 1637 book being held up as example by other Anglo-Catholic parishes (though perhaps things are different this side of the pond). The Walsingham Ordinariate uses the 1549 book shape in the main, but not sure about the Chair of St Peter.
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We should also clarify. With the release of DWM last Sunday, ALL Ordinariates now use the same Missal.
 
porthos11 said:
We should also clarify. With the release of DWM last Sunday, ALL Ordinariates now use the same Missal.
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Thanks for clarifying. I would love to buy a copy but it is eye-wateringly expensive!
 
liturgyluver said:
Thanks for clarifying. I would love to buy a copy but it is eye-wateringly expensive!
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So far the only edition I know of are for use in churches and chapels. Hopefully, hand missals will also be available soon. But for now, the only books available are not for our daily use.
 
Forgive me for plugging my own denom here, but have you ruled out the possibility of an ACNA parish meeting your needs? I ask this assuming you are wanting to escape the Episcopal Church, so I apologize if that’s not the case.

I’m skeptical that any parish that is part of the Ordinariate of the chair of St Peter will remain Anglican in any way after a generation. Where is the next generation of Anglo-Catholic priests to minister to the congregation supposed to come from? Certainly not married men from the laity. I don’t see how they won’t be fully Latin in a short period of time.
 
theropod said:
Forgive me for plugging my own denom here, but have you ruled out the possibility of an ACNA parish meeting your needs? I ask this assuming you are wanting to escape the Episcopal Church, so I apologize if that’s not the case.

I’m skeptical that any parish that is part of the Ordinariate of the chair of St Peter will remain Anglican in any way after a generation. Where is the next generation of Anglo-Catholic priests to minister to the congregation supposed to come from? Certainly not married men from the laity. I don’t see how they won’t be fully Latin in a short period of time.
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As long as your denomination maintains catholic doctrines, and is seperate from the corrupted Communion it could very well meet my needs:)
 
DeusExMachina said:
As long as your denomination maintains catholic doctrines, and is seperate from the corrupted Communion it could very well meet my needs:)
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Well, as with anything in Anglicanism, it’s messy, but we are aligned with GAFCON and the Global South (my diocese is ACNA but also CANA under direct supervision of a Church of Nigeria Bishop), so that puts us in direct opposition to the liberal provinces.

Some have criticized the ACNA leadership as being “too catholic”, but the balance between Catholic and Reformed is just going to vary from parish to parish
 
theropod said:
Well, as with anything in Anglicanism, it’s messy, but we are aligned with GAFCON and the Global South (my dioces is ACNA but also CANA under direct supervision of a Church of Nigeria Bishop), so that puts us in direct opposition to the liberal provinces.
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No offense, but when I look up ACNA and GAFCON, everything I see seems tainted by evangelicalism:(
 
theropod said:
Forgive me for plugging my own denom here, but have you ruled out the possibility of an ACNA parish meeting your needs? I ask this assuming you are wanting to escape the Episcopal Church, so I apologize if that’s not the case.

I’m skeptical that any parish that is part of the Ordinariate of the chair of St Peter will remain Anglican in any way after a generation. Where is the next generation of Anglo-Catholic priests to minister to the congregation supposed to come from? Certainly not married men from the laity. I don’t see how they won’t be fully Latin in a short period of time.
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From Anglicanorum Coetibus V, §5: “Candidates for Holy Orders in an Ordinariate should be prepared alongside other seminarians, especially in the areas of doctrinal and pastoral formation. In order to address the particular needs of seminarians of the Ordinariate and formation in Anglican patrimony, the Ordinary may also establish seminary programs or houses of formation which would relate to existing Catholic faculties of theology.”
 
theropod said:
Some have criticized the ACNA leadership as being “too catholic”, but the balance between Catholic and Reformed is just going to vary from parish to parish
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I have gotten the same critique from some. Depending on who makes the claim, I sometimes just ask why they think I’m too Christian.
 
theropod said:
It varies, but that’s Anglicanism, isn’t it? Always has been.
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I personally believe that anglicanism, true anglicanism is very much complimentary to catholicism, free of protestant errors
 
DeusExMachina said:
No offense, but when I look up ACNA and GAFCON, everything I see seems tainted by evangelicalism:(
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theropod said:
It varies, but that’s Anglicanism, isn’t it? Always has been.
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This evangelical ‘taint’ is one of the reasons that I would have problems joining ACNA. GAFCON is more that just ‘Anglicanism in the evangelical tradition.’ GAFCON is Protestant. I am Catholic.

They deny, for instance, the ecclesial authority (though not necessarily the doctrinal content) of the fifth, sixth, and seventh ecumenical council.
 
KjetilK said:
This evangelical ‘taint’ is one of the reasons that I would have problems joining ACNA. GAFCON is more that just ‘Anglicanism in the evangelical tradition.’ GAFCON is Protestant. I am Catholic.

They deny, for instance, the ecclesial authority (though not necessarily the doctrinal content) of the fifth, sixth, and seventh ecumenical council.
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I’m not sure GAFCON has an official stance on that to be honest, although many of the Africans probably hold to those beliefs. I don’t think you will find that in a lot of ACNA parishes. Again, it varies.
 
theropod said:
I’m not sure GAFCON has an official stance on that to be honest, although many of the Africans probably hold to those beliefs. I don’t think you will find that in a lot of ACNA parishes. Again, it varies.
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Well, the Jerusalem Declaration states: “We [GAFCON] uphold the four Ecumenical Councils and the three historic Creeds as expressing the rule of faith of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.” They do not necessarily deny the doctrinal content of the remaining three councils – the second council of Constantinople (in 553), the third council of Constantinople (in 680-681), and the second council of Nicaea (in 787) – but they deny that they have the ecclesial authority of being an ecumenical council, and the authority to ‘express the rule of faith of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.’

Some might argue that this is also true of Lutheranism, as the five confessions held there is the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, the Augsburg Confession (or Confessio Augustana), and Luther’s Small Catechism, but if we read Confessio Augustana carefully, we see that it does endorse these councils. On the first 21 articles (the main doctrinal part), the confession states. “This is about the Sum of our Doctrine, in which, as can be seen, there is nothing that varies from the Scriptures, or from the Church Catholic, or from the Church of Rome as known from its writers.” And in the conclusion, it states: “Only those things have been recounted whereof we thought that it was necessary to speak, in order that it might be understood that in doctrine and ceremonies nothing has been received on our part against Scripture or the Church Catholic. For it is manifest that we have taken most diligent care that no new and ungodly doctrine should creep into our churches.” (The Church Catholic refer to the entire Church, not only including Roman Catholics.)

So for Lutherans, all the seven ecumenical councils are authoritative, and they ‘express the rule of faith of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.’

But if ACNA do not hold the same beliefs as GAFCON, why is it alined with them? GAFCON is Protestant.
 
KjetilK said:
Well, the Jerusalem Declaration states: “We [GAFCON] uphold the four Ecumenical Councils and the three historic Creeds as expressing the rule of faith of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.” They do not necessarily deny the doctrinal content of the remaining three councils – the second council of Constantinople (in 553), the third council of Constantinople (in 680-681), and the second council of Nicaea (in 787) – but they deny that they have the ecclesial authority of being an ecumenical council, and the authority to ‘express the rule of faith of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.’

Some might argue that this is also true of Lutheranism, as the five confessions held there is the Apostles’ Creed, the Nicene Creed, the Athanasian Creed, the Augsburg Confession (or Confessio Augustana), and Luther’s Small Catechism, but if we read Confessio Augustana carefully, we see that it does endorse these councils. On the first 21 articles (the main doctrinal part), the confession states. “This is about the Sum of our Doctrine, in which, as can be seen, there is nothing that varies from the Scriptures, or from the Church Catholic, or from the Church of Rome as known from its writers.” And in the conclusion, it states: “Only those things have been recounted whereof we thought that it was necessary to speak, in order that it might be understood that in doctrine and ceremonies nothing has been received on our part against Scripture or the Church Catholic. For it is manifest that we have taken most diligent care that no new and ungodly doctrine should creep into our churches.” (The Church Catholic refer to the entire Church, not only including Roman Catholics.)

So for Lutherans, all the seven ecumenical councils are authoritative, and they ‘express the rule of faith of the one holy catholic and apostolic Church.’

But if ACNA do not hold the same beliefs as GAFCON, why is it alined with them? GAFCON is Protestant.
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You forgot to mention they uphold the blasphemous 39 articles
 
KjetilK said:
From Anglicanorum Coetibus V, §5: “Candidates for Holy Orders in an Ordinariate should be prepared alongside other seminarians, especially in the areas of doctrinal and pastoral formation. In order to address the particular needs of seminarians of the Ordinariate and formation in Anglican patrimony, the Ordinary may also establish seminary programs or houses of formation which would relate to existing Catholic faculties of theology.”
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This possibility was eye-catching, whn AC was first issued, and marked a change from the Pastoral Provision attitude. It bodes well, if followed, when need arises, for the ability to to preserve the Anglican heritage in the RCC.
 
Sorry to butt in with a somewhat inane question, but what color does the ordinate of The chair of St Peter use during the Advent liturgical season? Have they retained the Anglican blue or switched to the Catholic purple?
 
Padres1969 said:
Sorry to butt in with a somewhat inane question, but what color does the ordinate of The chair of St Peter use during the Advent liturgical season? Have they retained the Anglican blue or switched to the Catholic purple?
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Most Anglicans use purple, only a few churches that have a. strong association with the Sarum English use still use blue but it is a tiny fraction (in England at least).
 
GKC said:
Blue at my parish.
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You go to a OCSP church or an Anglican church?

I only ask because my experience has been the opposite of liturgyluver, that Episcopal Churches at least seem to favor blue even if not in the Sarum tradition. I was wondering if that carried over the Anglicans who had rejoined with Rome in the US.
 
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