Organist fired for other reasons

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MichaelTDoyle said:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070530/ap_on_fe_st/odd_catholic_ultimatum;_ylt=ArpVyEhkjy38YnjCY26Hr7ouQE4F

Opinions? The article wasn’t too sympathetic to the Priest. I’m not sure how cancer victims require sex toys. I’m a bit confused. Not even sure if it is against Church teaching.
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The use of sex toys goes against Church Teaching when they are used for sexual gratification out side of the proper use of the sex act.

I do not see how sexual dysfunction can be solved by the use of sex toys.

This priest did the right thing. This is a cause of scandal and he has addressed it by removing her from parish leadership.

The cancer issue seems to be a way for this woman to justify immoral behavior.

All I have to say is, Way to go Father! We need more priests and, especially, bishops like this!
 
MichaelTDoyle said:
news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070530/ap_on_fe_st/odd_catholic_ultimatum;_ylt=ArpVyEhkjy38YnjCY26Hr7ouQE4F

Opinions? The article wasn’t too sympathetic to the Priest. I’m not sure how cancer victims require sex toys. I’m a bit confused. Not even sure if it is against Church teaching.
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I don’t see why this is a story. The priest told her to choose between a job he feels is inconsistant with Church teaching and her job in the Church. She decided to give up the Church job.

The scandal was not caused by the priests ultimatum, it was caused by her taking it to the media. She should have just quietly left.

Nohome
 
That priest is needs to get the “beam” of self-righteousness and lack of charity out of his own eye before comlaining about the possibility of a “mote” in that woman’s.

He had no basis for assuming that the woman’s business involved anything against Church teaching. As long as the man “finishes in the right place” ANYTHING a duly married couple does is licit. There is nothing this company offers that can’t be used licitly within the context of a “Church Approved” marital embrace.

Even if the products did “go against Church teaching” which these DO NOT, does he also exclude parishioners who work in businesses that are open on Sunday? That sell condoms or Birth Control Pills? How about parishioners that work for banks that make predatory loans? How about parishoners that work for grocery stores or resturants that sell meat on Friday’s during Lent?

Give me a break.
 
BillP said:
That priest is needs to get the “beam” of self-righteousness and lack of charity out of his own eye before comlaining about the possibility of a “mote” in that woman’s.

He had no basis for assuming that the woman’s business involved anything against Church teaching. As long as the man “finishes in the right place” ANYTHING a duly married couple does is licit. There is nothing this company offers that can’t be used licitly within the context of a “Church Approved” marital embrace.

Even if the products did “go against Church teaching” which these DO NOT, does he also exclude parishioners who work in businesses that are open on Sunday? That sell condoms or Birth Control Pills? How about parishioners that work for banks that make predatory loans? How about parishoners that work for grocery stores or resturants that sell meat on Friday’s during Lent?

Give me a break.
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So since lots of people sin a Priest should ignore the public sinful behavior of a Parishione
R? I am sure those who dislike our Church were having a field day talking about the Catholic church employee who was throwing sex toy parties
 
estesbob said:
So since lots of people sin a Priest should ignore the public sinful behavior of a Parishione
R? I am sure those who dislike our Church were having a field day talking about the Catholic church employee who was throwing sex toy parties
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I could not possibly care less what people who dislike our Church complain about. It doesn’t matter what we do, they will still be there complaining.

The woman was doing nothing wrong. Period.

IMHO the people who are constantly trying to beat people with the “scandal” stick are overstepping thier bounds and trying to regulate non-sinful behaviors simply because they don’t like the behaviors. I find them lacking in compassion, charity and respect for those they are trying to unjustly regulate.

If “patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundral” then “scandal” is the last refuge of the self-righteous busybody.
 
from the source:
She said her decision was not hard: She began working with Pure Romance after a brain tumor and treatment left her sexually dysfunctional. The job allows her to help other women who have similar problems.
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“After I got over the initial shock, I prayed over this a long time,” she said. "I feel that Pure Romance is my ministry."
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See the bold part - When one is in position of leadership for the church, he/she should set a good example. He/she better knows not to serve two masters -

Serving God and “Pure Romance ministry” (with sex toy)?
  • it ain’t sound right especially for a leadership position at a parish!
 
water said:
from the source:

See the bold part - When one is in position of leadership for the church, he/she should set a good example. He/she better knows not to serve two masters -

Serving God and “Pure Romance ministry” (with sex toy)?
  • it ain’t sound right especially for a leadership position at a parish!
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That dog won’t hunt. You’re taking her quote out of context. I believe she meant that she viewed her selling Pure Romance as ministering to women by helping them realize the full potential of their sexuality (surely one of God’s greatest gifts to us!) within the confines of marriage as God wants them to. What’s wrong with that?

What about all the other “sinners” with leadership positions? DO you honestly believe that there isn’t a single member of the Parish council or in a leadership position that doesn’t work for a retail enterprise that sells brith control products? Or a restaurant that serves meat on Friday’s during Lent? Or a company that facilitates Planned Parenthood? or some other proscribed organization? Show me one parish that doesn’t have ANY sinners in “leadership positions”.
 
BillP said:
That dog won’t hunt. You’re taking her quote out of context. I believe she meant that she viewed her selling Pure Romance as ministering to women by helping them realize the full potential of their sexuality (surely one of God’s greatest gifts to us!) within the confines of marriage as God wants them to. What’s wrong with that?
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It is not greatest gift! The gift of having eternal life is the greatest one. Using sex toys is against the Church and her job of her ministry is wrong!
BillP said:
or some other proscribed organization? Show me one parish that doesn’t have ANY sinners in “leadership positions”.
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Everyone is sinful, but Jesus set us an example of living a holy life. Being in a leadership, one should follow the example of Jesus. The pastor of the parish has the right to move this person out of the service.
 
water said:
It is not greatest gift! The gift of having eternal life is the greatest one.
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Yeah, That would be why I said ONE of the greatest.
surely one of God’s greatest gifts to us!
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water said:
Using sex toys is against the Church and her job of her ministry is wrong!

That would be wrong.
So long as the instrument is used within the overall act of marital relations to assist in achieving satisfaction, yes, a husband and wife can use a vibrator. Only if the vibrator were being used for an unchaste purpose, such as climax outside of an act of marital relations, would there be a problem but the problem would be the act of unchastity and not the instrument.
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No he doesn’t. What the woman is doing isn’t even sinful! He is sinning far worse by singling her out for actions that aren’t even sinful.
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water said:
It is not greatest gift! The gift of having eternal life is the greatest one.
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Yeah, That would be why I said ONE of the greatest.
surely one of God’s greatest gifts to us!
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water said:
Using sex toys is against the Church and her job of her ministry is wrong!
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That would be wrong.
So long as the instrument is used within the overall act of marital relations to assist in achieving satisfaction, yes, a husband and wife can use a vibrator. Only if the vibrator were being used for an unchaste purpose, such as climax outside of an act of marital relations, would there be a problem but the problem would be the act of unchastity and not the instrument.
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forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=75310
water said:
Everyone is sinful, but Jesus set us an example of living a holy life. Being in a leadership, one should follow the example of Jesus. The pastor of the parish has the right to move this person out of the service.
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No he doesn’t. What the woman is doing isn’t even sinful! He is sinning far worse by singling her out for actions that aren’t even sinful.

That pastor isn’t following Jesus. Show me one instance in the Gospel where Jesus excluded someone for being sinner. That Pastor should take a long hard look at himself and his motivations.
 
pprimeau1976 said:
Did anyone see the way the news source decided to classify the news story? If you think that the story wasn’t biased in the organists favor, look at the URL, or the Address of the linked story, look where it says **odd_catholic_ultimatum **(circled).

http://www.geocities.com/pprimeau1976@sbcglobal.net/Images/anticatholiclabel.JPG

That kind of spells it out for me.
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That is the way the Yahoo internet producer decided to classify the story. The original story in the Milwaukee Sentinel is here:

jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=612409

And goes into much greater detail. Including this:
Her greatest reward, she added, is when women tell her she helped strengthen their marriages.
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The priest appears to be just about as wrong as he can be here:
Father Dean Dombroski thinks otherwise.
He sent a letter last fall to all members of his congregation.
“Linette is a consultant for a firm which sells products of a sexual nature that are not consistent with Church teachings,” he wrote. “Because parish leaders are expected to model the teaching of our faith, once this matter became public she and I met and she was given a choice. Either she could stay on as the choir director/organist or she could continue to be a consultant but she could not do both.”…
Dombroski said he’s gotten one or two calls from concerned parishioners but he can’t discuss the situation because it involves personnel.
“These decisions have not been easy for any of the individuals involved,” he said in his letter to the parish. “I ask that you keep everyone in your prayers and pray for healing here at St. Joseph Parish.”
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So he sends a libelous letter to the Parish at large, then insists he can’t discuss hios decision because it involves personnel. Yeah, right. God needs to be more careful about whom he hires.
 
BillP said:
So he sends a libelous letter to the Parish at large, then insists he can’t discuss hios decision because it involves personnel. Yeah, right. God needs to be more careful about whom he hires.
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I’m not sure what you see as ‘libelous’ in his statement. As far as the letter goes, it was a statement of what occurred so that people were aware - just the items that they needed to know. That doesn’t mean that they need to know ALL the details or everything that was said between the two.

It’s akin to someone in the company announcing that so&so was leaving but the details are personal. 🤷
 
Dandelion_Wine said:
I’m not sure what you see as ‘libelous’ in his statement.
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Well his assertion that she works for:
a firm which sells products of a sexual nature that are not consistent with Church teachings
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is certainly not true and defamatory wouldn’t you say?
Dandelion_Wine said:
As far as the letter goes, it was a statement of what occurred so that people were aware - just the items that they needed to know. That doesn’t mean that they need to know ALL the details or everything that was said between the two.

It’s akin to someone in the company announcing that so&so was leaving but the details are personal. 🤷
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I guess we see things differently. I see a guy making a arbitrary decision, getting called on it and intentionally spinning mis-information to the parish at large to justify himself.
 
Bill P,

What isn’t true about that statement?

Adding. How do you think the Priest heard about it? Don’t you think someone was scandalized and reported it to him?
 
Seatuck said:
Bill P,

What isn’t true about that statement?
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Used properly (e.g. by married couples if the man finishes in the right place) sex toys aren’t against Church teaching.

See:
So long as the instrument is used within the overall act of marital relations to assist in achieving satisfaction, yes, a husband and wife can use a vibrator. Only if the vibrator were being used for an unchaste purpose, such as climax outside of an act of marital relations, would there be a problem but the problem would be the act of unchastity and not the instrument.
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forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=75310

If the articles she sells aren’t against Church teaching then he has a) No business asserting to the parish at large that it is and b) no right to terminate her participation because of it.
 
Seatuck said:
Bill P,

What isn’t true about that statement?

Adding. How do you think the Priest heard about it? Don’t you think someone was scandalized and reported it to him?
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In fact she showed up at a Church bazaar with a selection of lotions (having prudentally decided to leave the more graphic items at home). I don’t know whether the priest saw her wares or whether some one complained. But I don’t care how he heard about it. You can’t use scandal as a measure or none of us are safe from anything. There will always be people who are prepared to place the worst possible construction on things, we shouldn’t as a Church, pander to them.

As I said on another thread, if patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel, then “scandal” is the last refuge of the self righteous busy-bodies.
 
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