Organist fired for other reasons

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So what? That doesn’t make the product itself immoral. Look, a surgeon uses the same scalpel to remove a cancerous tumor that he does to perform an abortion. Its not the scalpel that is sinful its the surgeon who performs the abortion.

The FACT of the matter is that the Church has NO teaching proscribing the possession or usage or sale on these materials. The priest has NO BUSINESS asserting that the Church so teaches. Where I come from that would be called a LIE). Nor did he have any business firing the lady, nor did he have any business smearing her by letter to the parish at large.
What possible good use could the product called the “masturbator” have?

If she feels he slandered her she should sue him.

I doubt that many oncology surgeons are performing abortions, I further doubt they purchase scalpels specifically advertised in pro abortion literature. At least the ones I know don’t.
 
I think a heck of a lot more priests have been convicted of that behavior than 50 year old women. If we’re getting rid of people on that basis…

No, I don’t think it would come up. I don’t believe that fact that she ran such as business would be considered relevant.
I can assure you that the lawyers I know would bring this up.
 
Nor did he have any business firing the lady…
He had every right to fire her. According to the article, she was not being paid, so it really made no difference.
nor did he have any business smearing her by letter to the parish at large.
I will agree with you on that one. The priest could have just said that for personal reasons, he decided to release so and so from her duties as music minister. He did not need to say why.
 
He had every right to fire her. According to the article, she was not being paid, so it really made no difference.
So is it your position that a Priest should be free to remove ANY parishioner ffrom ANY position within the Parish, then lie about the reasons and circumstances for doing so?

Should Priests be free to enforce standards of behavior above and beyond Church teaching among their Parish?
 
So is it your position that a Priest should be free to remove ANY parishioner ffrom ANY position within the Parish, then lie about the reasons and circumstances for doing so?
No, they should never lie, that would be a sin. If someone asks why she was fired, he should tell the person politely that it’s a personal matter and he *should not *disclose the reasons why.
Should Priests be free to enforce standards of behavior above and beyond Church teaching among their Parish?
He has every right to enforce standards of behavior for his staff, *especially *the ones that have a public ministry. An organist selling sex toys is very questionable, especially when the way the products are marketed are questionable. As far as individual parishioners go, he obviously cannot enforce anything other than what he says via his preaching.
 
No, they should never lie, that would be a sin. If someone asks why she was fired, he should tell the person politely that it’s a personal matter and he *should not *disclose the reasons why.
In effect the priest lied when he wrote in his letter that the products were against Church teaching. They clearly aren’t.
He has every right to enforce standards of behavior for his staff, *especially *the ones that have a public ministry.
That wasn’t my question. My question was does he have the right to enforce standards ABOVE AND BEYOND Church teaching?

For instance. The Church doesn’t require women to cover their heads before entering Churchs. Does a priest have the right to eject women whose heads aren’t covered from “his” Church? What if he says, all women must wear burkhas?

What if he says the bible says menstruating women are unclean, therefore menstruating women aren’t allowed inside the church.

In short is it okay for Priests tyo just make stuff up and enforce it among their parishioners?
 
Well his assertion that she works for:
a firm which sells products of a sexual nature that are not consistent with Church teachings
I guess I don’t know the breadth of products that she sells. What if there are videos? Or same-sex devices? That would be against church teaching.

EDIT: I just caught up on reading the posts. Looks to me like there are some things that ARE against Church teaching on that site Bill. That would mean the priest is NOT a liar and that he didn’t make a libelous comment.
If “patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundral” then “scandal” is the last refuge of the self-righteous busybody.
Since you’re talking about charity and motes in people’s eyes, I’d have to say your statement lacks charity and is libelous. My 7-yr old could be scandalized by something and that doesn’t make it a self-righteous busybody.
 
I guess I don’t know the breadth of products that she sells. What if there are videos? Or same-sex devices? That would be against church teaching.

EDIT: I just caught up on reading the posts. Looks to me like there are some things that ARE against Church teaching on that site Bill. That would mean the priest is NOT a liar and that he didn’t make a libelous comment.
I didn’t see anything that couldn’t be used within the Church’s guidelines.
Since you’re talking about charity and motes in people’s eyes, I’d have to say your statement lacks charity and is libelous. My 7-yr old could be scandalized by something and that doesn’t make it a self-righteous busybody.
So the behavior of the entire world is suppopsed to conform to what is appropriate for 7 year olds so parents don’t have to explain the concept of Charity and “not judging a book by its cover” etc? I think not.

I
 
So the behavior of the entire world is suppopsed to conform to what is appropriate for 7 year olds so parents don’t have to explain the concept of Charity and “not judging a book by its cover” etc? I think not.
That’s not what I said Bill. You called those who cry scandal as nothing more than slef-righteous busybodies. I was suggesting that perhaps your slogan wasn’t quite correct. I think people who aren’t self-righteous busybodies can be scandalized. I used my 7 yr old as an example.

And if you want to be charitable (as you’re saying the priest should be), perhaps you should stop calling him a liar and at least give him the benefit of the doubt that he had the best intentions for the rest of his congregation in mind when he told the organist she couldn’t do both?
 
I didn’t see anything that couldn’t be used within the Church’s guidelines.

So the behavior of the entire world is suppopsed to conform to what is appropriate for 7 year olds so parents don’t have to explain the concept of Charity and “not judging a book by its cover” etc? I think not.

I
You haven’t answered my question about the ‘masterbater’ and how they promote their products.

As far as what is appropriate for a 7 year old I would never knowingly let this woman near one of my grandkids, even if it was to teach choir.

IMO your posts are most definitely charity, but that is just my opinion and my opinion plus $2 will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

You have madeup your mind on the subject and so have I so there is nothing to be gained by continuing this discussion.
 
This woman who was fired is pretty twisted. Look, anybody can do anything and call it a “ministry”. It is a meaningless comment that is not worth the air to say or the electrons to display it on my screen.

I see people here presuming what the church does and does not teach, then criticizing, without citing sources but claiming they exist, those who disagree.

Rather than a simple refutation, I will make another suggestion (which will probably be shouted down as well.) And I will conclude with an reminder.

Suggestion: Read the following two books: The Good News about Sex and Marriage and Theology of the Body Explained. Both by Christopher West.

Reminder. Whatever you do, whether you eat or drink, do all for the glory of God.
 
I’m not a doctor, but how did a brain tumor and treatment leave her sexually disfunctional? And how would the "sex toys and material be a form of treatment. Until I hear differently, I think the priest had a right to fire her.
 
I’m not a doctor, but how did a brain tumor and treatment leave her sexually disfunctional? And how would the "sex toys and material be a form of treatment. Until I hear differently, I think the priest had a right to fire her.
He does not have to have a reason to fire anyone that is unpaid. In this case, I think he would have had a case even if she had been paid.
 
I don’t see why this is a story. The priest told her to choose between a job he feels is inconsistant with Church teaching and her job in the Church. She decided to give up the Church job.

The scandal was not caused by the priests ultimatum, it was caused by her taking it to the media. She should have just quietly left.

Nohome
You’re so right. This woman knew that once the media go it then she could drag the image of the Church and this priest in the mud. Predictably, those bastions of decency, the women from the View, used this story to take yet another shot at the Catholic church. I guess we saw that one coming. It’s time to sic Bill Donahue on them!
 
Bill P
In Catholicism for Dummies is says that sex toys are not permitted by the church. Pg. 192. In fact it says strictly Forbidden. Apparently that teaching is floating around the church and this Priest has been taught it.
 
When I think of items such as these I always associate them with masturbation, I would assume that most people use them as such. I agree with the Priest that i this would be against Church teachings. When you really think about it what kind of a Catholic would sell such items?
 
“A Catholic priest has removed his church’s organist and choir director from her duties…”
It just makes sense that someone in a ministerial role will need to “walk the walk” more than the average show-up-on-Sunday Catholic; you are not just following an example, you are now setting one. Also, I don’t see that the priest excommunicated the organist for her job choice. I assume she may still receive the sacraments.
In fact she showed up at a Church bazaar with a selection of lotions (having prudentally decided to leave the more graphic items at home).
This is a key point in my opinion. If you have sexual dysfunction due to a medical condition and require an aid, I see no problem with this in general. If you wish to give some personal private advice to someone with a similar medical condition, again, no big problem. But to become a seller/promoter? And publicly bring your business into the church for all to view? Boy, I don’t know how to spin this one. Especially when you figure that the vast majority of sales are not for the medically-impaired devout Catholic couples just trying to have one or two more children.

Just my 0.5 cents.

Tim
 
Bill P
In Catholicism for Dummies is says that sex toys are not permitted by the church. Pg. 192. In fact it says strictly Forbidden. Apparently that teaching is floating around the church and this Priest has been taught it.
I’m sorry, this sort of made me chuckle. I read the Bible, the CCC and I’ve even studied canon law on occasion. Now I learn that to trump all academic debate on a Catholic issue, all I have to do is whip out my copy of Catholicisim for Dummies!

I trust it has been translated from its original Latin!😃

Nohome
 
Even if the products did “go against Church teaching” which these DO NOT, does he also exclude parishioners who work in businesses that are open on Sunday? That sell condoms or Birth Control Pills? How about parishioners that work for banks that make predatory loans? How about parishoners that work for grocery stores or resturants that sell meat on Friday’s during Lent?

Give me a break.
Nooooo…But maybe he should.😉
 
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