W
WanderAimlessly
Guest
What if you are a member of that order and do not believe in this dissent?
PF
As for the leaders of these orders, suspend them all.
PF
Organization Representing Canadian Religious Orders in Open, Major Public Dissent fro
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B
bones_IV
Guest
Let them be anathema!!! They have as their father the devil.
B
Brendan
Guest
Here is the group’s website
crc-canada.org/main.cfm?c_siteLangue=_an
I’m sure we can all immediately see from the picture on their home page that they are, in fact, a body of professed religious. The veritable sea of habits and cowls present is truly overwhelming.
http://www.crc-canada.org/bd/imageNouveaute/n269_img1.jpg
And the full text of the message
crc-canada.org/bd/fichierNouveaute/284_2.pdf
crc-canada.org/main.cfm?c_siteLangue=_an
I’m sure we can all immediately see from the picture on their home page that they are, in fact, a body of professed religious. The veritable sea of habits and cowls present is truly overwhelming.
http://www.crc-canada.org/bd/imageNouveaute/n269_img1.jpg
And the full text of the message
crc-canada.org/bd/fichierNouveaute/284_2.pdf
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solarwind23
Guest
For what? For wanting to accept divorced and remarried Catholics etc.?
This is crazy. I have thought about all those issues fairly deeply and agree with their “dissent.” I can definitely see where they are coming from, and I think you guys would too if you evaluated it purely based on reason and morality rather than “infallibility”
W
WanderAimlessly
Guest
How about
These are the serious issues that they are issenting on.
PF
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solarwind23
Guest
Divorce: a person is abandoned by his/her spouse and is left alone with no hope of finding love and having a family. A woman is abused by her husband, escapes, and finds out she can never have children and a family.
Sorry, but I disagree with the Church on this.
Contraception: A couple for whom NFP doesn’t work, or a woman’s life would be threated by pregnancy (vascectomy is extremely effective), a woman in Africa who cannot feed her children and her husband won’t use NFP
Disagree as well.
Assisted suicide: A person enduring immeasurable pain with no hope for recovery wants it to end. What’s the point of spending an extra few months in awful, senseless suffering?
Women priests: Right now the Church looks like a “no girls allowed” boys club. Women take no role in calling councils, writing encyclicals, teaching infallibly, administering sacraments. There are no women priests, no women bishops, no women cardinals, no women popes. In addition to that married women are to submit to their husbands. There have been only 2 female doctors of the Church. This is a huge shortcoming in my opinion, it seems like women have no real place in the Catholic Church. The only revered woman was an obedient virgin and dutiful mother: i.e. a man’s ideal woman. Frankly I wouldn’t even say that, modern men appreciate leadership, initiative, creativity, achievement etc. in women. Doesn’t seem like they want obedient virgins anymore. (Unless they’re Muslim, but surely you don’t want to be in that crowd.)
Those people didn’t come out and declare murder wrong! They are looking out for the well being of human beings.
I think they are doing the right thing.
G
gelsbern
Guest
Wow, even not in union with Rome, I am more in union with Rome than you are.
Other than that, I am speechless that any catholic could call themselves catholic and be against the these teachings that the church has taught through all time.
W
WanderAimlessly
Guest
Fortunately, Church doctrine is not on their side. They are doing the wrong thing and should be sancioned for it. This includes up to and including excommunication.
Time to lay the hammer down on the dissenters.
PF
G
gelsbern
Guest
I am speechless.
I am not in union with Rome over papal supremacy/infallibility, and married clergy, other than that I believe everything else catholic. After reading about these people, and the response given by one person in this thread, I never realized how much in union with Rome I really am.
I am not in union with Rome over papal supremacy/infallibility, and married clergy, other than that I believe everything else catholic. After reading about these people, and the response given by one person in this thread, I never realized how much in union with Rome I really am.
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solarwind23
Guest
Why fortunately? Why do you want to condemn people abandoned by their spouses to a life without family and a life of loneliness? Why do you want to do the same to abused women who get away? Why do you want people who can’t successfully use NFP to abstain throughout the course of their marriage?
I don’t understand. There is almost cruelty in what you want to do.
W
WanderAimlessly
Guest
You are taking one issue and making it the only issue. It is not. I have listed the major issues that they are dissenting on.
PF
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solarwind23
Guest
And I commented on how each of those issues can cause harm to human beings.
Why not respond to at least one of them? Respond to this one about divorce.
They are not trying to make murder okay, they’re doing what’s best for human beings.
The Church should too if it wants to retain any kind of following.
W
WanderAimlessly
Guest
The Church has lasted 2000 years without following the path this group is suggesting and it is growing.
The part of the Church this group represents is a very small segment of the Church and growing smaller.
PF
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solarwind23
Guest
Do you know what percentage of Catholics actually follow the Church in its teaching on birth control?
Last time I checked Catholics were divorcing at the same rate as regular folk.
Of course you might say they are not “real” Catholics. But just how many “real” Catholics are there? I remember seeing something like 5% of Catholics using NFP. Yep.
Western society is becoming more and more secular, the only places where the Church is growing is the third world. Chances are once they get industrialized, once everyone gets the same access to information that the rest of us have they’ll start leaving too.
As far as surviving for 2000 years, well Roman Emperors and the censorship/threat of the Inquisition certainly helped. But now that people are free and reading all the “forbidden” literature they are rejecting the Church overwhelmingly.
What’s the birth rate in Italy? 1.something children per woman?
The Church will probably always be around, but if they keep at the rate they’re going it’ll be a group of “elite” celibate men out of touch with the rest of humanity.
If they want to actually do good in the world, why not focus on just that: doing good.
Care for people abandoned by spouses, care for people for whom NFP doesn’t work, etc. And in caring and looking out for human beings become people worth listening to and respecting.
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Brendan
Guest
Loneliness?? Do you think that Christ abandons them too? Or that He leaves them alone. All they have to do is to to Him.
Being united in Marriage to someone means that you accept a duty to bring them to heaven. What a holy thing it would be for these women to offering their separation and chastity for the conversion of their husbands.
You mean like Mary and Joseph did?
Yes, how cruel they were to each other.
Maybe because you don’t look at humanity the way Christ does.
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solarwind23
Guest
There were some difficult times during my Catholic life when I prayed to Jesus. Prayed pretty desperately and sincerely.
All I got in return was dead silence. Nothing. I don’t believe in Jesus anymore.
So yes, loneliness. Many people need a spouse and children to be happy, to life a full life. For many family could be all they have.
M
m134e5
Guest
Civil divorce would likely be acceptable- even reccommended, and an annulment saught in this case. The Church is not heartless, nor is it naive.
NFP does work, but if a woman’s life is truly endangered by pregnancy, then she should be celibate within marriage. If her husband won’t, then he obviously cares more about sex than her and she should not stay in that relationship.
There will be much more suffering in hell. There is value in suffering. It can be used as a prayer.
You look at how “oppressed” women are, but look at the problems men face as well. Men do not act like men anymore- they do not know how. Allowing women to take the few jobs in the world left that men have and can use to show the world an example of authentic masculinity will only make things worse.
The Church disagrees with you. They are dangerously close to heresy- if they aren’t already there- and are in danger of losing their souls.
B
Brendan
Guest
Let me quess, you could also look at the Church’s opposition to slavery and make the claim that the Church should have changed Her position since so many Catholics owned slaves.
Since when in morality determined by a popular vote?
Were all those slave owning Catholics from the 16th to 19th centuries “real Catholics”
Really, you mean that Africans don’t know about contraception, or Latin Americans. You mean they haven’t heard about abortion.
What information are they lacking?
Or could it be that they have not been caught up in the Material culture of the Industrialized countries. That they don’t search for happiness in a new Xbox or a better car.
They were “out of touch with humanity” back in the 1st century when it was a small group of traveling Jews preaching something new, and they have been “out of touch with humanity” for each century since.
The Church will always be “out of touch” with common culture, because it trancends common culture. That is because it calls for something unpopular. For us to give up sin, it calls us to be “in touch” with God.
M
m134e5
Guest
Do you not think Mother Teresa prayed sincerely too? She got only silence- for 50 years! She kept faith- and know she has been called to be with the Blessed in heaven.
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Brendan
Guest
Maybe because you were only listening for what you wanted to hear, not for what God was trying to tell you.
Humans are very good at that. I’m guilty too sometimes.
When I hear Him most is when He is calling me in a way I never thought of.
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