Origin of the Baptist Church

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Hi. I have a friend (the best friend of my fiancé) who is a Southern Baptist, and he said that the Baptist Church has been around since the beginning of the Catholic Church, basically parallels the Catholic Church, and were persecuted by the Romans. He says they were originally called “anabaptists.” I’ve done research, because although I originally did not believe him, I thought I’d assume he might know what he was talking about. All I’ve found is that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, and that the Baptist churches in general started in around 1609. The Anabaptists, who are unrelated, also weren’t around until the 1500s, not 2000 years ago.

I’m not so much looking for support of this answer as much as I’m looking for anyone else who has heard this, or believes it, or knows where it comes from. It seems to me like someone wanted their Church to sound more like the one true Church and is passing this information on to Baptists.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
 
Check out this “Quick Question” from an old “This Rock” magazine issue.

Hopefully this is helpful. I find the admission of J.M. Carroll to be very problematic to anyone who holds this view. Good luck in your dialogue!
 
I never knew Caroll retracted his theory. Good to know, and it makes me respect him a whole lot more.

In my opinion, it’s true that some Baptist ideas can be traced back to before the true origins of the Baptists in the 17th century. Obviously they built upon the Protestant Reformation, especially the Radical Reformation. This in turn, I think, probably was influenced to some degree by various older movements, like the Hussites, Lollards, and Waldensians, whose thinking in turn may have been influenced by the Cathars. These Cathars may in turn have been derived in some way from the Bogomils of Bulgaria, who in turn seem to have been inspired by the Paulicians of early medieval Armenia. These Medieval heretics held certain views similar to those of some of the heretics of Christian antiquity, like the Gnostics and perhaps especially the Marcionites, and it might not be irrational to see some continuity between them.

The fact is though that these connections are often tenuous and in any case are far from organic continuity, and each group named held beliefs others would have considered heretical.
 
kslat said:
Hi. I have a friend (the best friend of my fiancé) who is a Southern Baptist, and he said that the Baptist Church has been around since the beginning of the Catholic Church, basically parallels the Catholic Church, and were persecuted by the Romans. He says they were originally called “anabaptists.” I’ve done research, because although I originally did not believe him, I thought I’d assume he might know what he was talking about. All I’ve found is that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, and that the Baptist churches in general started in around 1609. The Anabaptists, who are unrelated, also weren’t around until the 1500s, not 2000 years ago.

I’m not so much looking for support of this answer as much as I’m looking for anyone else who has heard this, or believes it, or knows where it comes from. It seems to me like someone wanted their Church to sound more like the one true Church and is passing this information on to Baptists.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
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…Historians trace the earliest Baptist church back to 1609 in Amsterdam, with English Separatist John Smyth as its pastor. … Baptist practice spread to England, where the General Baptists considered Christ’s atonement to extend to all people, while the Particular Baptists believed that it extended only to the elect. In 1638, Roger Williams established the first Baptist congregation in the North American colonies. In the mid-18th century, the First Great Awakening increased Baptist growth in both New England and the South. The Second Great Awakening in the South in the early 19th century increased church membership, as did the preachers’ lessening of support for abolition and manumission of slavery, which had been part of the 18th-century teachings. Baptist missionaries have spread their church to every continent.
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Here

**
John Smyth
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** (c. 1570 – c. August 28, 1612) was an early Baptist minister of England and a defender of the principle of religious liberty. Historians consider John Smyth as a founder of the Baptist denomination.

Here
When he was exiled to Amsterdam from his native England, John Smyth gathered three dozen of his followers around him. The former Anglican preacher and Cambridge fellow recited a confession of faith; then he baptized himself.
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The brazen act scandalized even those who, with Smyth, despised England’s state church. Amsterdam Separatist Richard Bernard nicknamed him a “Se-Baptist” (self-baptizer). Though Smyth’s followers preferred the term “Christians Baptized on Profession of Their Faith,” the shorter, derogatory “se-baptist,” later shortened again to “Baptist,” stuck.

Here
 
kslat said:
Hi. I have a friend (the best friend of my fiancé) who is a Southern Baptist, and he said that the Baptist Church has been around since the beginning of the Catholic Church, basically parallels the Catholic Church, and were persecuted by the Romans. He says they were originally called “anabaptists.” I’ve done research, because although I originally did not believe him, I thought I’d assume he might know what he was talking about. All I’ve found is that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, and that the Baptist churches in general started in around 1609. The Anabaptists, who are unrelated, also weren’t around until the 1500s, not 2000 years ago.

I’m not so much looking for support of this answer as much as I’m looking for anyone else who has heard this, or believes it, or knows where it comes from. It seems to me like someone wanted their Church to sound more like the one true Church and is passing this information on to Baptists.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
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Freud explains: that is called"rationalization". First, you do something. then you justify it for whatever means you find.
 
I think a number of Christian churches believe that the Holy Spirit prompted individuals to their beliefs at different times in history, and that the resulting groups were persecuted by the Church, and eliminated, along with records of their existence. They have no actual proof for this but assert on the same ‘logic’ basis that Catholics believe the immaculate conception or assumption doctrines: it fits their other beliefs. If the Holy Spirit guides them today - surely the Holy Spirit would have done so earlier, leading to there being Baptist churches down through the ages. The best account I recall was from the Brethren. To avoid these assertions, the Church should not have persecuted other Churches in times past. :sad_yes:
 
kslat said:
Hi. I have a friend (the best friend of my fiancé) who is a Southern Baptist, and he said that the Baptist Church has been around since the beginning of the Catholic Church, basically parallels the Catholic Church, and were persecuted by the Romans. He says they were originally called “anabaptists.” I’ve done research, because although I originally did not believe him, I thought I’d assume he might know what he was talking about. All I’ve found is that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, and that the Baptist churches in general started in around 1609. The Anabaptists, who are unrelated, also weren’t around until the 1500s, not 2000 years ago.

I’m not so much looking for support of this answer as much as I’m looking for anyone else who has heard this, or believes it, or knows where it comes from. It seems to me like someone wanted their Church to sound more like the one true Church and is passing this information on to Baptists.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
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You mean it wasn’t founded by John the Baptist as many Baptists have said? 😃
 
Baptist Church or even the Catholic Church both were neither founded by Jesus nor Mary; these cropped up when Jesus and Mary migrated to India, in their absence, without any express authority from Jesus.
 
Hokomai said:
I think a number of Christian churches believe that the Holy Spirit prompted individuals to their beliefs at different times in history, and that the resulting groups were persecuted by the Church, and eliminated, along with records of their existence. They have no actual proof for this but assert on the same ‘logic’ basis that Catholics believe the immaculate conception or assumption doctrines: it fits their other beliefs. If the Holy Spirit guides them today - surely the Holy Spirit would have done so earlier, leading to there being Baptist churches down through the ages. The best account I recall was from the Brethren. To avoid these assertions, the Church should not have persecuted other Churches in times past. :sad_yes:
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Hokomai,

With all due respect.

The Immaculate Conception and Assumption are not based on Logic as you say. This you should look into the history of Chrisianity.😊

Check out this youtube video:thumbsup:

youtube.com/watch?v=kUdYeYy3NQA

The Baptists were started by a fall away from the Anglicans trying to reform the Anglicans. If you want to study persecution study what the Anglicans, Lutherans and the Calvinists did to Baptists because they would not baptize infants.:eek:

You state things that are without foundation.:eek:
 
Hokomai said:
If you look at your video from 9’00" you will see an exposition based on logic. It is the whole point of the video.
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This is thoughtful. The dogma as proposed preceded this video. If it were completely logic then there would be no disagreement as our Protestant friends approach with some sort of logic. Read the declaration of the assumption and immaculate conception and see if you can propose the logic that would cause all to see the logic. 👍

The video provides insights that are missed by reading the bible and not paying attention Old to New. :eek:

There is no argument here the reality is that if it were pure logic then the world would be in the OHCAC.👍
 
Aelred_Minor said:
Obviously they built upon the Protestant Reformation, especially the Radical Reformation. This in turn, I think, probably was influenced to some degree by various older movements, like the Hussites, Lollards, and Waldensians, whose thinking in turn may have been influenced by the Cathars. These Cathars may in turn have been derived in some way from the Bogomils of Bulgaria, who in turn seem to have been inspired by the Paulicians of early medieval Armenia. These Medieval heretics held certain views similar to those of some of the heretics of Christian antiquity, like the Gnostics and perhaps especially the Marcionites, and it might not be irrational to see some continuity between them
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In other words, there’s no such thing as a new heresy.

Peace,
 
kslat said:
Hi. I have a friend (the best friend of my fiancé) who is a Southern Baptist, and he said that the Baptist Church has been around since the beginning of the Catholic Church, basically parallels the Catholic Church, and were persecuted by the Romans. He says they were originally called “anabaptists.” I’ve done research, because although I originally did not believe him, I thought I’d assume he might know what he was talking about. All I’ve found is that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, and that the Baptist churches in general started in around 1609. The Anabaptists, who are unrelated, also weren’t around until the 1500s, not 2000 years ago.

I’m not so much looking for support of this answer as much as I’m looking for anyone else who has heard this, or believes it, or knows where it comes from. It seems to me like someone wanted their Church to sound more like the one true Church and is passing this information on to Baptists.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
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The answer is, basically, that they wish that were true.
It’s nonsense, plain and simple. Not even the Baptist Church will go furthering this theory anymore.

It’s an implicit acceptance of the concept of Apostolic Succession - which Baptists do not have. They shot themselves in the foot with it.
 
kslat said:
Hi. I have a friend (the best friend of my fiancé) who is a Southern Baptist, and he said that the Baptist Church has been around since the beginning of the Catholic Church, basically parallels the Catholic Church, and were persecuted by the Romans. He says they were originally called “anabaptists.” I’ve done research, because although I originally did not believe him, I thought I’d assume he might know what he was talking about. All I’ve found is that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, and that the Baptist churches in general started in around 1609. The Anabaptists, who are unrelated, also weren’t around until the 1500s, not 2000 years ago.

I’m not so much looking for support of this answer as much as I’m looking for anyone else who has heard this, or believes it, or knows where it comes from. It seems to me like someone wanted their Church to sound more like the one true Church and is passing this information on to Baptists.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
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Oh yes I have heard such a position by Baptists. Unfortunately they have no historical evidence to stand on to prove their belief. Sadly it is a fabricated belief that they were persecuted by the Romans. If so,where are the writings by the Baptists and/or secular records those outside of the Baptist Church? Last,if they were around for the last 2,000 years,then why do written records of their origin of existence not come in until 1800 years later? It is all hogwash!
 
1638 in Rhode Island. Georgia claims evolution from the first black Baptist congregation in North America. While it was not officially organized until 1788.

Peace
 
Thank you all very much for your responses and insights! I appreciate it. Watching the video now, CopticChristian. Thank you, and God bless you all!
 
kslat said:
Thank you all very much for your responses and insights! I appreciate it. Watching the video now, CopticChristian. Thank you, and God bless you all!
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I think that the movie is great. I believe that you should read the documents and understand what they say if you plan to convince anyone including yourself of anything. I believe if you have the documents read and want to engage someone the movie helps. The documents first then the movie.👍

Immaculate Conception

papalencyclicals.net/Pius09/p9ineff.htm
“We declare, pronounce, and define that the doctrine which holds that the most Blessed Virgin Mary, in the first instance of her conception, by a singular grace and privilege granted by Almighty God, in view of the merits of Jesus Christ, the Savior of the human race, was preserved free from all stain of original sin, is a doctrine revealed by God and therefore to be believed firmly and constantly by all the faithful.”
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Assumption

papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12MUNIF.HTM
  1. Since the universal Church, within which dwells the Spirit of Truth who infallibly directs it toward an ever more perfect knowledge of the revealed truths, has expressed its own belief many times over the course of the centuries, and since the bishops of the entire world are almost unanimously petitioning that the truth of the bodily Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary into heaven should be defined as a dogma of divine and Catholic faith-this truth which is based on the Sacred Writings, which is thoroughly rooted in the minds of the faithful, which has been approved in ecclesiastical worship from the most remote times, which is completely in harmony with the other revealed truths, and which has been expounded and explained magnificently in the work, the science, and the wisdom of the theologians-we believe that the moment appointed in the plan of divine providence for the solemn proclamation of this outstanding privilege of the Virgin Mary has already arrived.
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ciero said:
You mean it wasn’t founded by John the Baptist as many Baptists have said? 😃
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Good jokes have an element of truth to them. So good Joke!

John the Forerunner (Baptist) was probably from Samaria. The Samarians were a large flock among the flocks of Christians that were converted to Christ by the work of the Apostles. These largely became what were called Gnostics. John the Forerunner (Baptist) was a major saint among the Gnostics. It is from the Gnostics, particularly a Gnostic group called “Paulists”, that the Ana-Baptistist claim an origin. Actually the Paulists were the first Christians in Armenia; they preceded Orthodox/Catholic Christians there.
 
kslat said:
Hi. I have a friend (the best friend of my fiancé) who is a Southern Baptist, and he said that the Baptist Church has been around since the beginning of the Catholic Church, basically parallels the Catholic Church, and were persecuted by the Romans. He says they were originally called “anabaptists.” I’ve done research, because although I originally did not believe him, I thought I’d assume he might know what he was talking about. All I’ve found is that the Southern Baptist Convention was founded in 1845, and that the Baptist churches in general started in around 1609. The Anabaptists, who are unrelated, also weren’t around until the 1500s, not 2000 years ago.

I’m not so much looking for support of this answer as much as I’m looking for anyone else who has heard this, or believes it, or knows where it comes from. It seems to me like someone wanted their Church to sound more like the one true Church and is passing this information on to Baptists.

Thanks in advance for your (name removed by moderator)ut!
Click to expand...
That’s interesting to me as a one raised as a Southern Baptist. I never heard any such thing taught by Southern Baptists. As a child in Bible school I remember being taught that the Southern Baptist church split from another Protestant denomination that like all Protestants was a product of the Reformation.
 
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