Original sin and aliens

  • Thread starter Thread starter LeonardDeNoblac
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
IdaCatholic said:
The exploration of the topic (what little there is) was addressed by the Pope. So if it is theological answers to these important questions you seek. Point to something other than what the Pope said that is directly on point.
Click to expand...
His off-the-cuff comments don’t fit the past 2,000 years of ecclesiology and sacramental theology, so until he makes a formal address on the topic addressing the specifics I’ll stick with what the Magisterium has previously provided on those topics.
 
I was unaware of what the magesterium has said on the topic of baptizing aliens. If the Pope is in theological error that can be brought to his attention I guess. The current leader of the faith (even though I personally disagree with the uttering of the comment) has spoken to this topic directly.
 
IdaCatholic said:
I was unaware of what the magesterium has said on the topic of baptizing aliens. If the Pope is in theological error that can be brought to his attention I guess. The current leader of the faith (even though I personally disagree with the uttering of the comment) has spoken to this topic directly.
Click to expand...
Not on the topic of baptizing aliens. On the topic of original sin, the role of the Church, and Christ’s redemptive sacrifice, on the role of the sacraments in that.

The short form of the corollary to all that is that if they’re not descendants of Adam and Eve the Church and the sacraments have no effect on them. It’s as moot as trying to baptize someone a second time or ordain a woman to the priedthood. Nothing happens. As far as God’s plans for rational non-human animals not descended from Adam and Eve, should they exist, we don’t know beyond that our Church and covenant and sacraments are not for them.

Baptizing aliens runs against our entire theology on these topics as they are.
 
Last edited:
The Pope said to baptize them. If you think that is contrary to the magesterium then perhaps you could consider that it is your understanding of the theology that could bend, not the Pope’s. You can think what you wish. In my opinion the whole exercise is a colossal waste of time because there are no aliens. The initial post said no evidence had been found “yet” which indicates a bias anyway. This is the same as any other “what if” question. What if they found Jesus’ body? What if God made a mountain so big he couldn’t move it? Ultimately these serve no purpose in ones relationship with Jesus.
 
IdaCatholic said:
The Pope said to baptize them. If you think that is contrary to the magesterium then perhaps you could consider that it is your understanding of the theology that could bend, not the Pope’s. You can think what you wish. In my opinion the whole exercise is a colossal waste of time because there are no aliens. The initial post said no evidence had been found “yet” which indicates a bias anyway. This is the same as any other “what if” question. What if they found Jesus’ body? What if God made a mountain so big he couldn’t move it? Ultimately these serve no purpose in ones relationship with Jesus.
Click to expand...
If the Pope formally addresses the issue of course I’d reconsider. Pope Francis frequently speaks off the cuff, though, and in a case such as this there’s no reason to ascribe more weight to such a statement than there is. It wasn’t a Magisterial teaching. It isn’t an administrative decision.
 
IdaCatholic said:
The initial post said no evidence had been found “yet” which indicates a bias anyway.
Click to expand...
I’m not biased towards the existence of intelligent extraterrestrial living beings. Actually, for some reasons (like Fermi’s paradox ), I’m skeptical about it. However, I’m not closed towards this possibility.
 
Again. The Pope chose to address it. You can dismiss that if you wish, but I doubt you will find more of an answer to the subject by an authority in the Church anywhere. Seems like this has already been answered. If the Pope chose to speak on this subject I charitably assume he us educated on Catholic theology of original sin and baptism. Probably more than we are.
Case closed in my book. I’ll be moving on.
 
There is no extraterrestrial living. But if you try ro point contradiction in doctrine then welcome!

Gos is fair. God do not accuse any one for other’s sin.

God forgived Adam. There is no a sin anymore.

We did not inherited an original sin from Adam but we inherited an inclined inbeing for sins from Adam. We commit sins apart from Adam’s fault(sin!) so I think we should worry for our self sins.

God could forgive all sins except rejection existence of God. If believers repent for sins so God could forgive all sins.
 
LeonardDeNoblac said:
This leaves a difficulty. If humans are just descendants of Adam and Eve and original sin is a major determinant of Humanness, what was the difference in nature between men and other rational beings in the original plan for creation (in wich original sin wasn’t present )?
Click to expand...
There is no difficulty.

God made only one Plan, Plan A/ Original Plan, God did not make Plan B.

The Original Sin is a crucial part of God’s Original Plan.

God Designed, Decreed, Predestined and Willed/ Caused the original sin for the benefit of the entire human race.

God bless
 
Last edited:
mhmtas63 said:
There is no extraterrestrial living.
Click to expand...
Why do you exclude this possibility?
mhmtas63 said:
Gos is fair. God do not accuse any one for other’s sin.

God forgived Adam. There is no a sin anymore.

We did not inherited an original sin from Adam but we inherited an inclined inbeing for sins from Adam. We commit sins apart from Adam’s fault(sin!) so I think we should worry for our self sins.
Click to expand...
Original sin is contracted, not committed. It’s a condition, not an act (apart from the case of Adam and Eve ). Adam, as the first man ever created, represented the whole humanity, so the consequences of his sin affect the whole humanity.
 
Last edited:
LeonardDeNoblac said:
Original sin is contracted, not committed. It’s a condition, not an act (apart from the case of Adam and Eve ). Adam, as the first man ever created, represented the whole humanity, so the consequences of his sin affect the whole humanity.
Click to expand...
Then let Adam to will pay for our sins!
 
Original sin is a doctrine not sourced from a valid revelation from God.
 
mhmtas63 said:
Original sin is a doctrine not sourced from a valid revelation from God.
Click to expand...
You are a Muslim. You should believe in these verse of the Quran, right?

“He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel.” (Surah Ali 'Imran 3:3, Sahih International )
 
Last edited:
The problem with this is the incarnation… the Fathers are clear that Christ saved the nature He assumed… so human nature.
 
LeonardDeNoblac said:
You are a Muslim. You should believe in these verse of the Quran, right?

“ He has sent down upon you, [O Muhammad], the Book in truth, confirming what was before it. And He revealed the Torah and the Gospel. ” (Surah Ali 'Imran 3:3, Sahih International )
Click to expand...
I believe in Torah and Gospel. I said the doctrine was not revealed through revelation(Bible). It is some kind of interpretation which conflicts many facts.
 
Great question, even if it’s not 100% clear what it is 😉

Are some ETs sinful? Probably yes.

Are some humans free of original sin? I believe yes, but there aren’t many left…

Do or did ETs inherit original sin from Adam and Eve? No. A fall into sin is likely a planet-local affair. Some otherworldly intelligent species may have experienced their fall, and the Way out of that mess will be (or has been) revealed unto them when the Messiah appears in their world. (Incarnation is likely also a planet-local affair.)

Does Christ’s Sacrifice have a cosmic effect? Yes, but in the sense that it engenders a New Cosmos; not necessarily in the sense that ETs all across this cosmos would be affected by it.

In closing, ETs are not “men”. The definition that man is a rational animal does not imply that all rational animals including ETs are men. Besides, intelligence and rationality are not the same. Rationality requires intelligence, but intelligence does not require rationality (fortunately).
 
Last edited:
LeonardDeNoblac said:
There’s no evidence yet of the existence of intelligent life beyond our planet.
Click to expand...
The evidence is found written in scripture. Those ‘aliens’ (misnomer, as we the sinners are the ‘aliens’ in a sinless universe, and Christians are the ‘aliens’ (pilgrims, strangers) on earth) are unfallen (sinless) glorious beings.

BTW, God is “beyond our planet”, even as Jesus literally ascended into the Heaven, leaving this earth’s atmosphere, travelling beyond sun, moon and local stars all the way to the 3rd Heaven, where His Father is (Our Father which art in Heaven).

The scripture is replete with references to the other worlds and the unfallen beings on them. Start here: Matthew 18:12-13; Luke 15:4-7. Read carefully, connect to Revelation 12:12 (“rejoice”). I have many more. Yet, you might find the following useful - LINK
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top