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Anrakyr
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First we have to deal with the fermi’s paradox.
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AveOTheotokos
Guest
Just throwing this out there… some people think that John 10:16 is scriptural evicence of ET’s
Either way, I just (feebly) try to focus on the fact that I am a sinner, and I need God’s mercy. If ET’s exist and have sinned, I’m sure that God has offered them a conduit of grace and mercy just as He has for us.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
Perhaps it is just a reference to the non-Jewish people that will eventually be evangalized throughout the world over time, but then again maybe they are otherworldy sheep.
Either way, I just (feebly) try to focus on the fact that I am a sinner, and I need God’s mercy. If ET’s exist and have sinned, I’m sure that God has offered them a conduit of grace and mercy just as He has for us.
Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.
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englands123
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The other day I read a quote which made perfect sense.
Those who believe in God have an understanding of purpose.
Non believers are still searching for answers.
Simply put… If you believe in God then you would already know 100% there is no life away from planet earth.
Those who believe in God have an understanding of purpose.
Non believers are still searching for answers.
Simply put… If you believe in God then you would already know 100% there is no life away from planet earth.
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twf
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That’s not church teaching. Catholics are free to believe there is Other life out there.
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englands123
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What we need is a lot less talk about Area 51 and a lot more [Psalm 51]…
The Bible presents humanity as uniquely created in the image of God [Genesis 1:26]
Well I am not going to go against the Bible the Word of God himself.
The Bible presents humanity as uniquely created in the image of God [Genesis 1:26]
Well I am not going to go against the Bible the Word of God himself.
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englands123
Guest
Jesus and Peter
When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Tend my sheep.”He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.The church is Jesus.
If my local Priest encouraged the idea of life away from Earth I would be very shocked to say the least.
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Anrakyr
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Belief in extra terrestrials is not contrary to catholic dogma.
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EndTimes
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"There’s no evidence yet of the existence of intelligent life beyond our planet.
But if any evidence was found in the future, how could Catholic theology reconcile it with the doctrine of original sin (wich is not optional for Catholics to believe, but is a dogma of faith)?"
That’s a complex speculative - WHAT IF? …
When/IF that ever occurs - including, by necessity - before the Return of Messiah Jesus, we would most likely have a far more comphehensive view OF said posited “Aliens” …
Until then - any current responses - likewise would remain - pure speculation…
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But if any evidence was found in the future, how could Catholic theology reconcile it with the doctrine of original sin (wich is not optional for Catholics to believe, but is a dogma of faith)?"
That’s a complex speculative - WHAT IF? …
When/IF that ever occurs - including, by necessity - before the Return of Messiah Jesus, we would most likely have a far more comphehensive view OF said posited “Aliens” …
Until then - any current responses - likewise would remain - pure speculation…
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DaveBj
Guest
Ooh, that’s a good one – I like it!
(FTR, I do believe in the possibility of extra-terrestrial intelligent life, but I totally ignore ufology, as it is understood in our times.)
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EndTimes
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Would angels - known to exist - with some at least in Heaven -
"be considered to be Extra-Terrestrial Beings?
Along with that - we’ve been informed via the Bible that they’re not any so-called “simple” forms (of Life) - but rather - they’re even more intelligent than humans.
That said, one vexing question drawn from Man’s “Science” re: Life?
I.E., How did Life actually Form from Non-Life? (ABIOGENESIS INVESTIGATIONS) -
which in turn gives me pause…
SEVERAL THOUGHTS RE:
Extra Terrestrials - oft brought up at times as if in a challenge to GOD’s Existence manner.
**A) Whether one knows this or not, a single-cell ‘animal’ is representative of the most complicated Chemistry in the Known Universe - and of which Man’s Science’ investigations into molecular and cellular Biology - continue to raise more questions than answering those which generate such questions… In other words, the very entire CELL is that complex - that is represents an almost? ungraspable domain of Knowledge… **
**B) … Theories of How Life Formed on Earth are Legion - and are often shunted into “Outer Space” … involving DNA/RNA along with certain Functional Amino Acids hitching rides upon Comets - and via a fiery entrance - crash landing on Earth - and somehow almost miraculously forming into the very first Functional Protein - and Then What?
**
**C) Other Interesting Factoids:
Earth is thus far the Only place where Life is Known to exist. As such - with its obvious “perfect Natural” conditions for the myriad of requirements for Life’s Sustenence - beyond, say, “Water”
Life has:
Neither: Been observed occurring from non-Life.
Nor: Never been replicated from total non-life/chemicals.
Yes… Synthesized in manners still utilizing portions of Life…
but no pure Making of Life by Man from Scratch.
D) That said, again… it’s very easy to speculate about Outer Space -
and perhaps one should Answer those aforementioned Questions re: Laboratory Earth - if one could.
"be considered to be Extra-Terrestrial Beings?
Along with that - we’ve been informed via the Bible that they’re not any so-called “simple” forms (of Life) - but rather - they’re even more intelligent than humans.
That said, one vexing question drawn from Man’s “Science” re: Life?
I.E., How did Life actually Form from Non-Life? (ABIOGENESIS INVESTIGATIONS) -
which in turn gives me pause…
SEVERAL THOUGHTS RE:
Extra Terrestrials - oft brought up at times as if in a challenge to GOD’s Existence manner.
**A) Whether one knows this or not, a single-cell ‘animal’ is representative of the most complicated Chemistry in the Known Universe - and of which Man’s Science’ investigations into molecular and cellular Biology - continue to raise more questions than answering those which generate such questions… In other words, the very entire CELL is that complex - that is represents an almost? ungraspable domain of Knowledge… **
**B) … Theories of How Life Formed on Earth are Legion - and are often shunted into “Outer Space” … involving DNA/RNA along with certain Functional Amino Acids hitching rides upon Comets - and via a fiery entrance - crash landing on Earth - and somehow almost miraculously forming into the very first Functional Protein - and Then What?
****C) Other Interesting Factoids:
Earth is thus far the Only place where Life is Known to exist. As such - with its obvious “perfect Natural” conditions for the myriad of requirements for Life’s Sustenence - beyond, say, “Water”
Life has:
Neither: Been observed occurring from non-Life.
Nor: Never been replicated from total non-life/chemicals.
Yes… Synthesized in manners still utilizing portions of Life…
but no pure Making of Life by Man from Scratch.
D) That said, again… it’s very easy to speculate about Outer Space -
and perhaps one should Answer those aforementioned Questions re: Laboratory Earth - if one could.
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tafan2
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If you want a really good, and enjoyable, speculative idea about this topic, read the first two books of C.S.Lewis’s space trilogy.
Here is what I think: We are intelligent beings because we are endowed with a rational soul, immortal soul. IIRC, Aquinas states that our souls, because they are rational, have to be immortal. So if there are other intelligent beings in the universe, they also have rational, immortal souls.
Now, if they exists, one of two condiions occur:
Here is what I think: We are intelligent beings because we are endowed with a rational soul, immortal soul. IIRC, Aquinas states that our souls, because they are rational, have to be immortal. So if there are other intelligent beings in the universe, they also have rational, immortal souls.
Now, if they exists, one of two condiions occur:
- they are not fallen, ie they never sinned. Certainly this is a strong possibility. As such, they have no need of our baptism or our sacraments. This is in effect the position that C.S. Lewis takes in his books.
- If they are fallen, God may or may not have chosen a means for their salvation. But it would not be the same as ours. God the Son has two natures, human and divine, not 3 or 4 or umpteen. He was incarnate once, as man. As such our means of salvation is not theirs. So baptism would not be beneficial to them.
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DaveBj
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When I refer to extra-terrestrial beings I am talking about non-spiritual life forms who live in the physical universe. That would exclude angels and demons.
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EndTimes
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When I refer to extra-terrestrial beings I am talking about non-spiritual life forms who live in the physical universe. That would exclude angels and demons.
OK,
Yet it might include actual humans created by God and placed upon a differing Planet than Terra/Earth?
OK,
Yet it might include actual humans created by God and placed upon a differing Planet than Terra/Earth?
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DaveBj
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Non-human. I have in mind intelligent beings with whom we could interact, altho theoretically a Martian microbe would fit into the category of an extra-terrestrial being.
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GLam1761
Guest
I have a friend who said that he is only Half Human, w/
a statement like that it is conceivable to claim that Christ
didn’t die for him, and that he is more angelic than human.
With such a case, I find it VERY HARD to pray for his con-
version, since Christ was 100% Human and He died for
the Children(descendants) of Abraham!!
a statement like that it is conceivable to claim that Christ
didn’t die for him, and that he is more angelic than human.
With such a case, I find it VERY HARD to pray for his con-
version, since Christ was 100% Human and He died for
the Children(descendants) of Abraham!!
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OrbisNonSufficit
Guest
Mormons think that passage refers to Jewish migrants to Americas who were also visited by Christ, or so I was told.
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Arandur
Guest
Wow, TLDR on the comments, so this might be repetitive, but I cast my vote on:
You are correct, sir.
In that, despite what some theologians and even the pope have said, Jesus in his HUMAN Incarnation really does not seem like he came for the redemption of any non-human. Nor to make a Church for non-humans. Nor to institute Sacraments for non-humans.
After all, it doesn’t include the Angels. Now I know, the Angels are not physical beings and may be outside of time (we don’t truly know their relation to time). But you are correct in that aliens would not be subject to the Original Sin of Adam and Eve. They may be subject to their own founders’ Original Sin(s). But in that case, from our frame of reference, we would indeed expect a pattern similar to Christ’s Incarnation.
At the least, Divine Love would seem to compel it. If God could have saved mankind some other way, but chose His Son’s Incarnation, life, ministry, tortured sacrificial death, resurrection, giving of himself in the Eucharist, and sending of the Holy Spirit to indwell His regenerated children, because of His great love, then why would He not seek to send and live out a very similar message of intimate love to them?
I think Divine Love would demand it. It may not take the same form or story as Jesus, “repeated” – in fact, I think it would probably be a very different story.
But we would find incongruent the idea of a Jesus of Many Faces sitting on the Throne, and with multiple Queen Mothers, and foundations of Apostles.
Another interesting implication is what it would have on human origins, Original Sin by generation from a singular Adam and Eve. At the very least, it seems to me, that if we are to claim that Baptism and the salvific redemptive death and resurrection of Christ is somehow applicable to aliens, then we must also utterly discard the notion that Original Sin is the privation which was to be corrected and/or that it must have come by generation from a singular set of individuals. Polygenesis is definitely on the table at that point, and more.
You are correct, sir.
In that, despite what some theologians and even the pope have said, Jesus in his HUMAN Incarnation really does not seem like he came for the redemption of any non-human. Nor to make a Church for non-humans. Nor to institute Sacraments for non-humans.
After all, it doesn’t include the Angels. Now I know, the Angels are not physical beings and may be outside of time (we don’t truly know their relation to time). But you are correct in that aliens would not be subject to the Original Sin of Adam and Eve. They may be subject to their own founders’ Original Sin(s). But in that case, from our frame of reference, we would indeed expect a pattern similar to Christ’s Incarnation.
At the least, Divine Love would seem to compel it. If God could have saved mankind some other way, but chose His Son’s Incarnation, life, ministry, tortured sacrificial death, resurrection, giving of himself in the Eucharist, and sending of the Holy Spirit to indwell His regenerated children, because of His great love, then why would He not seek to send and live out a very similar message of intimate love to them?
I think Divine Love would demand it. It may not take the same form or story as Jesus, “repeated” – in fact, I think it would probably be a very different story.
But we would find incongruent the idea of a Jesus of Many Faces sitting on the Throne, and with multiple Queen Mothers, and foundations of Apostles.
Another interesting implication is what it would have on human origins, Original Sin by generation from a singular Adam and Eve. At the very least, it seems to me, that if we are to claim that Baptism and the salvific redemptive death and resurrection of Christ is somehow applicable to aliens, then we must also utterly discard the notion that Original Sin is the privation which was to be corrected and/or that it must have come by generation from a singular set of individuals. Polygenesis is definitely on the table at that point, and more.
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poche
Guest
It could be that these aliens could be free of original sin.
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DaveBj
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EndTimes
Guest
I wrote a novel based on that what-if.
Yes.
The Realm of All Possible Speculative Questions probably approaches “Infinity”
And Some of them serve an evil purpose - i.e., To Sow Confusion thus Doubt.
Next time someone says to you: “Prove You Exist!?”
You could either rightfully request full definitions of each term:
+_
Yes.
The Realm of All Possible Speculative Questions probably approaches “Infinity”
And Some of them serve an evil purpose - i.e., To Sow Confusion thus Doubt.
Next time someone says to you: “Prove You Exist!?”
You could either rightfully request full definitions of each term:
- A) Fully and I mean Fully - explain the boundaries of your required “Proof”?
- B) What do YOU fully mean by “you”?
- C) What is this Existence “you” speak of ?
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