Original sin...

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Ok I know this is a super basic concept but I’m really struggling with it right now. Why is there original sin? I totally understand personal sin and everyone being punished for their own sins, but why do we all suffer because of original sin. Why do unborn babies, children and those with mental and physical disabilities suffer when they have done nothing wrong?
 
Ok I know this is a super basic concept but I’m really struggling with it right now. Why is there original sin? I totally understand personal sin and everyone being punished for their own sins, but why do we all suffer because of original sin. Why do unborn babies, children and those with mental and physical disabilities suffer when they have done nothing wrong?
My understanding is that it goes back to Adam and Eve eating from the fruit of the tree that God expressly told them not to. From that moment on there was sin. It’s in our being as soon as we are conceived in the womb.

There are some Protestants who do say that a baby cannot have sin and thus they cannot be baptized until the age of reason. I had a Pastor tell us once that you can recognize sin in a baby if you do not change the diaper or get that food ready quickly enough. The baby becomes angry and cries and yells for someone to help.

Others here may have a better understanding.

God bless!!
 
Ok I know this is a super basic concept but I’m really struggling with it right now. Why is there original sin? I totally understand personal sin and everyone being punished for their own sins, but why do we all suffer because of original sin. Why do unborn babies, children and those with mental and physical disabilities suffer when they have done nothing wrong?
There is an interesting story which leads to the actual Original Sin.

In the beginning, Adam is created in a true loving relationship with God, known as the State of Holiness, aka State of Sanctifying Grace. As a creature, the only way Adam could remain in this personal realtionship was through his free submission (obedience) to his Creator.

Do you have questions abut this beginning? And then we can continue.
 
There is an interesting story which leads to the actual Original Sin.

In the beginning, Adam is created in a true loving relationship with God, known as the State of Holiness, aka State of Sanctifying Grace. As a creature, the only way Adam could remain in this personal realtionship was through his free submission (obedience) to his Creator.

Do you have questions abut this beginning? And then we can continue.
No I get that part. What I don’t understand is why we suffer for other people’s sins. I understand why we suffer for our own sins, that makes sense!
 
My understanding is that it goes back to Adam and Eve eating from the fruit of the tree that God expressly told them not to. From that moment on there was sin. It’s in our being as soon as we are conceived in the womb.

There are some Protestants who do say that a baby cannot have sin and thus they cannot be baptized until the age of reason. I had a Pastor tell us once that you can recognize sin in a baby if you do not change the diaper or get that food ready quickly enough. The baby becomes angry and cries and yells for someone to help.

Others here may have a better understanding.

God bless!!
That is very funny about the baby. Thank you for your help. I have a relative who is Missouri synod Lutheran 🙂
 
No I get that part. What I don’t understand is why we suffer for other people’s sins. I understand why we suffer for our own sins, that makes sense!
It is not uncommon that one suffers for another’s sin. It does not seem just to us.
 
Ok I know this is a super basic concept but I’m really struggling with it right now. Why is there original sin? I totally understand personal sin and everyone being punished for their own sins, but why do we all suffer because of original sin. Why do unborn babies, children and those with mental and physical disabilities suffer when they have done nothing wrong?
One way I heard it explained is this:

Imagine if your grandfather were a billionaire. But he was also a compulsive gambler. And he ends up spending his entire life savings on a poker game and loses. What’s going to happen to his descendants? They are going to be born into poverty. This might seem unfair, it is unfair, but it’s the way life works. The grandfather made a decision, and that decision affected all of his family.

Our actions have consequences. (something we tend to forget today in America but our ancestors were keenly aware of) Not just consequences for ourselves, but for the people around us as well. If a pregnant mother gets addicted to cocaine, her baby will be addicted. The baby didn’t do anything, but now he has to live with the consequences of his mothers poor choice. We are not isolated individuals, we are all connected.

So with Adam and Eve, they were created in perfect union with God. There were two benefits that this union gave them. 1. Eternal benefits. They had access to the Beatific vision. 2. Physical benefits. There was no sickness, death, or disease for them. Not because those things didn’t exist (they did in the animal kingdom, according to Aquinas) but because their union with God prevented those things from affecting them. But when they sinned, they cut off not just themselves, but the entire human race, from communion with God. As a result, humanity lost the gifts it had which were only available to it because it was united to God. Just like if a tree gets cut off from its root, it withers, we got cut off from our ‘‘root’’ - God - and so we fell back into the state that all nature falls into apart from God’s grace. Death, disease, suffering.

So that’s why there is original sin, and all the things that entails. It’s not so much that we are being ‘‘punished’’ for Adam’s sin. But we do have to deal with the consequences of it. Thankfully though, that’s not the end of the story. Christ’s death and resurrection undoes the sin of Adam. He heals and bridges the gap between God and man. He infuses sanctifying grace - the grace that Adam and Eve had but lost - back into our souls and we have access to heaven again, as long as we are united to Christ. And in the resurrection, our physical bodies will be completely made new, to something even better than Adam and Eve had. 👍

Does that explain things a little better? Let me know if something still doesn’t make sense. And sorry for such a long post. I wasn’t planning on writing that much when I started haha. 🙂
 
No I get that part. What I don’t understand is why we suffer for other people’s sins. I understand why we suffer for our own sins, that makes sense!
First, Adam is not “other people” as in the comment “What I don’t understand is why we suffer for other people’s sins.”

Second, I see some interesting responses to your question. Please consider these. Then I can answer your particular questions.
 
One way I heard it explained is this:

Imagine if your grandfather were a billionaire. But he was also a compulsive gambler. And he ends up spending his entire life savings on a poker game and loses. What’s going to happen to his descendants? They are going to be born into poverty. This might seem unfair, it is unfair, but it’s the way life works. The grandfather made a decision, and that decision affected all of his family.

Our actions have consequences. (something we tend to forget today in America but our ancestors were keenly aware of) Not just consequences for ourselves, but for the people around us as well. If a pregnant mother gets addicted to cocaine, her baby will be addicted. The baby didn’t do anything, but now he has to live with the consequences of his mothers poor choice. We are not isolated individuals, we are all connected.

So with Adam and Eve, they were created in perfect union with God. There were two benefits that this union gave them. 1. Eternal benefits. They had access to the Beatific vision. 2. Physical benefits. There was no sickness, death, or disease for them. Not because those things didn’t exist (they did in the animal kingdom, according to Aquinas) but because their union with God prevented those things from affecting them. But when they sinned, they cut off not just themselves, but the entire human race, from communion with God. As a result, humanity lost the gifts it had which were only available to it because it was united to God. Just like if a tree gets cut off from its root, it withers, we got cut off from our ‘‘root’’ - God - and so we fell back into the state that all nature falls into apart from God’s grace. Death, disease, suffering.

So that’s why there is original sin, and all the things that entails. It’s not so much that we are being ‘‘punished’’ for Adam’s sin. But we do have to deal with the consequences of it. Thankfully though, that’s not the end of the story. Christ’s death and resurrection undoes the sin of Adam. He heals and bridges the gap between God and man. He infuses sanctifying grace - the grace that Adam and Eve had but lost - back into our souls and we have access to heaven again, as long as we are united to Christ. And in the resurrection, our physical bodies will be completely made new, to something even better than Adam and Eve had. 👍

Does that explain things a little better? Let me know if something still doesn’t make sense. And sorry for such a long post. I wasn’t planning on writing that much when I started haha. 🙂
Pardon me.
A clarification is needed for this point. “1. Eternal benefits. They had access to the Beatific vision.”

Are you saying that Adam and Eve pre-Fall were in the presence of the Beatific Vision? Or are you saying that Adam and Eve could enter heaven after their time in the Garden?
 
What Ive never understood about original sin, we all know Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our sins, in other words, he took the punishment in advance for all the future sinning we would be doing, and his dying on the cross was apparently enough to accomplish this…so why was original sin not included in this? Was his pain and suffering not enough to redeem us from that? If not, what would it have taken for OS to be included?
 
Pardon me.
A clarification is needed for this point. “1. Eternal benefits. They had access to the Beatific vision.”

Are you saying that Adam and Eve pre-Fall were in the presence of the Beatific Vision? Or are you saying that Adam and Eve could enter heaven after their time in the Garden?
Right sorry, I meant they COULD enter, but as far as I know they hadn’t yet. Although they did have a more intimate relationship God than we do, since they had no sin.

Thanks for pointing that out. That’s an important distinction.
 
What Ive never understood about original sin, we all know Jesus suffered and died on the cross for our sins, in other words, he took the punishment in advance for all the future sinning we would be doing, and his dying on the cross was apparently enough to accomplish this…so why was original sin not included in this? Was his pain and suffering not enough to redeem us from that? If not, what would it have taken for OS to be included?
Good question, but actually, original sin was included. That primarily was what He died for, to heal the gap between man and God that Adam’s disobedience caused. Remember, when we are baptized, we put on Christ, and the original sin that we receive from Adam is completely washed away. We now have access to heaven again.

The reason we are still born with it even after Christ’s death is because our nature is still Adam’s nature, which is still fallen. We aren’t naturally united to Christ. That’s why we have to be ‘‘born again’’ through baptism to experience the fruit of Christ’s work.

But eventually even our natures will be completely renewed, as St. Paul tells us:

For we know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. (Romans 8:22-23)

Right now our souls have been redeemed, and we have access to God’s forgiveness, but at the end of time the entire creation itself will be redeemed. All the pain and suffering that Adam’s sin caused will be undone. Everything will be made new through the resurrection. It’s all through Christ’s sacrifice, his victory over sin and death, but we have to wait for the end of time to experience the full force of that victory.
 
Ok I know this is a super basic concept but I’m really struggling with it right now. Why is there original sin? I totally understand personal sin and everyone being punished for their own sins, but why do we all suffer because of original sin. Why do unborn babies, children and those with mental and physical disabilities suffer when they have done nothing wrong?
Catechism of the Catholic Church states that the transmission of original sin it is a mystery:

404 How did the sin of Adam become the sin of all his descendants? The whole human race is in Adam “as one body of one man”.293 By this “unity of the human race” all men are implicated in Adam’s sin, as all are implicated in Christ’s justice. Still, the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand. But we do know by Revelation that Adam had received original holiness and justice not for himself alone, but for all human nature. By yielding to the tempter, Adam and Eve committed a personal sin, but this sin affected the human nature that they would then transmit in a fallen state.294 It is a sin which will be transmitted by propagation to all mankind, that is, by the transmission of a human nature deprived of original holiness and justice. And that is why original sin is called “sin” only in an analogical sense: it is a sin “contracted” and not “committed” - a state and not an act.
 
Good question, but actually, original sin was included. That primarily was what He died for, to heal the gap between man and God that Adam’s disobedience caused. Remember, when we are baptized, we put on Christ, and the original sin that we receive from Adam is completely washed away. We now have access to heaven again.

The reason we are still born with it even after Christ’s death is because our nature is still Adam’s nature, which is still fallen. We aren’t naturally united to Christ. That’s why we have to be ‘‘born again’’ through baptism to experience the fruit of Christ’s work.

But eventually even our natures will be completely renewed, as St. Paul tells us:
For we know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; 23 and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. (Romans 8:22-23)
Right now our souls have been redeemed, and we have access to God’s forgiveness, but at the end of time the entire creation itself will be redeemed. All the pain and suffering that Adam’s sin caused will be undone. Everything will be made new through the resurrection. It’s all through Christ’s sacrifice, his victory over sin and death, but we have to wait for the end of time to experience the full force of that victory.
I hope readers spend at least five minutes on each information-packed sentence. The phrasing is excellent.
 
Ok I know this is a super basic concept but I’m really struggling with it right now. Why is there original sin? I totally understand personal sin and everyone being punished for their own sins, but why do we all suffer because of original sin. Why do unborn babies, children and those with mental and physical disabilities suffer when they have done nothing wrong?
God permits us all to suffer from concupiscence—even to suffer at all—for the very basic reason that He therefrom is able to draw a greater good.

As Dr Lawrence Feingold has written:
God permitted original sin, foreknowing all the tragedy that it was to introduce into the world, in order to bless the world with a remedy for that tragedy which would be good beyond all comprehension: the Incarnation of Christ, as the divine Victim for the sins of the world, the Redeemer of His fallen creature.
The purpose of creation is the manifestation of God’s goodness outside of Himself. Creation manifests God’s goodness on every level, and especially in the rational creature. However, Christ’s redemption of man through His sorrowful Passion manifests God’s love and mercy in a way that far exceeds, infinitely exceeds, the love shown by creation itself. Likewise, the Passion of Christ is capable of awakening in the souls of those whom He has redeemed a love of gratitude and praise far exceeding that awakened by any other work of God, including the blessedness of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden.
For more information, I’d recommend these two audio sources for study:

hebrewcatholic.net/09-02-original-justice-and-original-sin/
hebrewcatholic.net/09-03-original-sin-and-its-consequences/
 
Robyn p, according to your post the consequences of Adam & Eve’s original sin include death and disease in this physical world. But Christ’s death and resurrection did not undo these consequences. The analogy of the gambling grandfather is not quite apt. If the grandfather gets into debt, it would not be right for the grandson to be responsible for settling that debt. And it would not be right for a new-born baby many centuries later and on the other side of the planet to be responsible for that debt.
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grannymh:
First, Adam is not “other people” as in the comment “What I don’t understand is why we suffer for other people’s sins.”
Grannymh, I don’t understand what you’re saying here. According to the teaching of the Church, Adam was a person and he is not the same person as the original poster. To me, that makes him fall within the set of ‘other people’. Or am I missing something here?

The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that “. . . the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand.” That’s not very helpful. I’m still in agreement with the original poster, Convert in 99. Why is it right that we suffer for someone else’s action? It makes no sense.
 
The Catechism of the Catholic Church states that “. . . the transmission of original sin is a mystery that we cannot fully understand.” That’s not very helpful. I’m still in agreement with the original poster, Convert in 99. Why is it right that we suffer for someone else’s action? It makes no sense.
And ultimately, why is it right that Jesus suffers for ours?
 
Robyn p, according to your post the consequences of Adam & Eve’s original sin include death and disease in this physical world. But Christ’s death and resurrection did not undo these consequences.
It did. That’s what the resurrection was all about. Christ’s victory over death, which Adam brought into the world through his disobedience. We just don’t experience the full fruit of it right now. We have to wait for the end of time for that. But He did undo it.
It would not be right for the grandson to be responsible for settling that debt. And it would not be right for a new-born baby many centuries later and on the other side of the planet to be responsible for that debt.
I used the grandfather as an analogy for how people can and do suffer for the poor choices of their ancestors. It wasn’t meant to be a perfect parallel. But the fact remains, the grandfather spent his inheritance, and that caused his children to be born into poverty.

Maybe a better analogy (though still not perfect) is a man injecting himself with some faulty gene and all his descendants being born with it. That actually is closer to the situation, because what Adam and Eve’s sin essentially did was radically mutate human nature. And since that’s the only nature they had to pass on, that’s the one we receive. It’s not that God is ‘‘punishing’’ us for something we didn’t do. It’s that human nature became fallen.

Now is that fair? Is it fair that one person’s bad choice affects more than just himself? No. And yet, this same principle of collectivity that causes us to share in the consequences of Adam’s sin also lets us share in Christ’s victory. It’s not fair that we suffer because of what one man did. But neither is it fair that through the love of One Man, we are saved, rescued, and given access to eternal life and a glory that not even Adam had.

As St. Paul said:

“For I consider the sufferings of this present world not worth comparing to the glory that is to be revealed to us” (Rom 8:18)

God will more than make up for any sufferings - just or unjust - that we endure in this life because of original sin or our own sins. So much that it’s not even worth comparing. That’s pretty awesome to me.
 
While it is true that we are born with Original Sin, it doesn’t seem fair that we should be held guilty for the sin another committed I think it helps to think of it as not something we inherit but rather something we are born lacking. We are born lacking Sanctifying Grace; because our original parents more or less told God that they weren’t interested. The good news is that God didn’t ever abandon us. Beginning with Gen.3:15 through the rest of the Bible we see Gods love for us.
 
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