Origins of slavery in the US

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

You should read the story about Adam and Eve in Genesis or maybe Cain and Abel. Punishment on Earth does exist.

Punishment on Earth DID exist. Things have changed dramatically since Christ founded His Church. You should read the New Testament.

Being saved at the last second and punishment are concepts which have hardly anything to do with one another.

Hmmmm…I’m not so sure about that…on Judgement Day you will face one or the other.

 

[teeboy]

Punishment on Earth DID exist. Things have changed dramatically since Christ founded His Church. You should read the New Testament.

Hmmmm…I’m not so sure about that…on Judgement Day you will face one or the other.

There are two forms of punishment for sin. They are eternal punishment and temporal punishment.

 

[tabycat]

So we’re dropping the whole “wage slave” and actual slave are the same comparison?

In some cases the ‘wage slave’ was considered lower then the owed slave because the wage slave was cheaper to replace. All the owner had to do was fire the wage slave and hire another one, with the owned slave the owner had to pay for a slave replacement (somethimes quite a bit of money).

 

[oldcatholicguy]

In some cases the ‘wage slave’ was considered lower then the owed slave because the wage slave was cheaper to replace. All the owner had to do was fire the wage slave and hire another one, with the owned slave the owner had to pay for a slave replacement (somethimes quite a bit of money).

A “wage slave” was considered to be socially lower than a slave?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

There are two forms of punishment for sin. They are eternal punishment and temporal punishment.

Very good. your grasp of the doctrine of sin is impressive.

Eternal punishment = Eternal Damnation. (Suffered after death)

Temporal punishment refers to making satisfaction for the wrong done…either in this life or in Purgatory. Satisfaction in this life means “works” or sacrifices given freely as atonement.
If you lost an arm in a car accident that would not be a form of temporal punishment. Your “earned” temporal punishment would still be waiting for you in Purgatory (After death).

God does not punish us during our life.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

In some cases the ‘wage slave’ was considered lower then the owed slave because the wage slave was cheaper to replace. All the owner had to do was fire the wage slave and hire another one, with the owned slave the owner had to pay for a slave replacement (somethimes quite a bit of money).

I would rather be the lowest form of wage earner than the best kept/fed SLAVE in the world.

 

[tabycat]

A “wage slave” was considered to be socially lower than a slave?

Women, children, ;wage slaves’. and immagrents were lumped in with slaves as on the bottom, socially and legally.

 

[tabycat]

I would rather be the lowest form of wage earner than the best kept/fed SLAVE in the world.

Even if it ment living on the street and not being able to feed your family? Slaves did have families.

 

[WildCatholic]

Indentured servants were different from the slave ships sent by Cromwell.

I don’t know anything about black slaves becoming slave owners, but surely you realize that was unusual. I’m asking about white owners of black slaves and how slavery became such a uniquely American tragedy. This topic is uncomfortable, but the parallels in modern society are important and it’s worth considering from the standpoint of how a culture falls into such a cesspool of injustice. What happened back then set us up for centuries of anguish between the races.

Funny, i’ve never heard of Blacks owning blacks in the US. I know that blacks definitely sold other Africans into Slavery. Also i know that in the South the Cherokee Indians owned slaves as well as the other civilized tribes of the south (Cherokees Choctaws, Seminoles, Creeks, and Chickasaw though don’t quote me on this). The cherokees even had their own civil war in Oklahoma during the American Civil War.

I think that to answer the OP, a lot of the reason for bad treatment was that they were not white and didn’t speak the language or have the same faith. Some even thought they were doing africans a favor by keeping them in Britain and or America and introducing them to Christianity (A belief still echoed by a lot of Southerners who say that black people in America have it better than if they would have stayed in Africa which might be true but is kind of a dumb argument. Kind of like saying the Jews are better off because of the Holocaust because they got Israel. )

Also CatholicFarmer, its good you can see this injustice and how it paralells to today. In all honesty I think people need to see slavery as a sin against chastity since chastity at its heart is treating people like they ought to be treated. Slavery to me is definitely a violation of this and not just the literal owning of humans but also the behaviors slave owners engaged in with their slaves

 

[teeboy]

Very good. your grasp of the doctrine of sin is impressive.

Eternal punishment = Eternal Damnation. (Suffered after death)

Temporal punishment refers to making satisfaction for the wrong done…either in this life or in Purgatory. Satisfaction in this life means “works” or sacrifices given freely as atonement.
If you lost an arm in a car accident that would not be a form of temporal punishment. Your “earned” temporal punishment would still be waiting for you in Purgatory (After death).

God does not punish us during our life.

If I remember correctly, temporal punishment can take place in this life, in purgatory, or both.

Works bring the gifts that you have lost through sin back. So, as one incurs debt, charity is lost. Works bring back the charity.

 

[starshiptrooper]

Even if it ment living on the street and not being able to feed your family? Slaves did have families.

Are you referring to the families that happened via the rape committed by the masters? Or perhaps you were thinking about the families the slaves had as they were forced to breed like cattle? Either way, these families were routinely ripped apart by the slave trader.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

If I remember correctly, temporal punishment can take place in this life, in purgatory, or both.

Right again. As I said…Temporal punishment refers to making satisfaction for the wrong done…either in this life or in Purgatory.

If you want to make satisfaction for a wrong you did by fasting for 30 days that would be fine. You could also resort to self flagellation. These are forms of temporal punishment that you can impose on yourself. God will not do it. Temporal punishment can also mean secular/civil punishment…jail, prison, parking tickets…etc.

My sainted Grandmother used to say: " Look at that poor man…the one with only one leg…God punished him Zoltan. You better be good."

Was my Grandmother right?

 

[tabycat]

Are you referring to the families that happened via the rape committed by the masters? Or perhaps you were thinking about the families the slaves had as they were forced to breed like cattle? Either way, these families were routinely ripped apart by the slave trader.

No to both. I was talking about the de facto marrages that slaves had before and during the Civil War. Today’s sex slaves do not have that. Are you forgeting that the time the slave families were broken apart was when the owner died and left debts that had to be payed off by sell everything (like what happened with Thomas Jefferson). Many slave traders were illegally ‘(name removed by moderator)orting’ slaves post 1803. As for ‘forced to breed like cattle’, what do you say about, over the centuries, governments giving money and land grantes to married people who had large numbers of children (ie the French in Canada).

 

[oldcatholicguy]

Women, children, ;wage slaves’. and immagrents were lumped in with slaves as on the bottom, socially and legally.

Um, no they actually weren’t because non-slave women, children, wage slaves, immigrants couldn’t actually be put up on an auction block and sold. The couldn’t have this done to them because they were classified as people not property.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Even if it ment living on the street and not being able to feed your family?

When a person finds himself living on the streets and unable to feed his family, he has tow choices: One find a job and go to work or…Two, Rob and steal.

Like I said : I would rather be the lowest form of wage earner than the best kept/fed SLAVE in the world.

Slaves did have families.

Slaves mated and produced baby slaves who became the property of their masters.

 

[tabycat]

When a person finds himself living on the streets and unable to feed his family, he has tow choices: One find a job and go to work or…Two, Rob and steal.

Like I said : I would rather be the lowest form of wage earner than the best kept/fed SLAVE in the world.

Slaves mated and produced baby slaves who became the property of their masters.

Are you say that slaves did not have humanfleelings toward their children? I am talking about all slaves in all times including today around the world, not just in pre-Civil War America. If you say that they did not have human feelings, then who is say they are/were not human beings?

 

[tabycat]

Um, no they actually weren’t because non-slave women, children, wage slaves, immigrants couldn’t actually be put up on an auction block and sold. The couldn’t have this done to them because they were classified as people not property.

In some cases, the slaves were relatives of the owner. So, are you saying that those slave owners are saying that they (the owners) are not people?

Even post Civil War some have said that women were not human, the only ‘true’ humans were males over 18 and belonged to certain ethnic groups (like wasps).

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Are you say that slaves did not have humanfleelings toward their children? I am talking about all slaves in all times including today around the world, not just in pre-Civil War America. If you say that they did not have human feelings, then who is say they are/were not human beings?

No, I said nothing about the human feelings of slaves. I was keeping on the thread by talking about “Origins of slavery in the U.S.”

Do you want to expand the subject to world wide slavery past and current?
Do you want to discuss feelings and emotions of humans who are slaves?
Do you want to define “slavery”?

 

[starshiptrooper]

No to both. I was talking about the de facto marrages that slaves had before and during the Civil War. Today’s sex slaves do not have that. Are you forgeting that the time the slave families were broken apart was when the owner died and left debts that had to be payed off by sell everything (like what happened with Thomas Jefferson).

Or the families could be broken up whenever the master decided to sell them.

As for ‘forced to breed like cattle’, what do you say about, over the centuries, governments giving money and land grantes to married people who had large numbers of children (ie the French in Canada).

I say that you do not understand the distinction between being coerced by someone who pretends to own you and a financial incentive.

 

[tabycat]

No, I said nothing about the human feelings of slaves. I was keeping on the thread by talking about “Origins of slavery in the U.S.”

Do you want to expand the subject to world wide slavery past and current?
Do you want to discuss feelings and emotions of humans who are slaves?
Do you want to define “slavery”?

You cannot take slavery in the US (pre- and post-Civil War) out of the context of slavery in the world and time. All types of slavery is in both the past and the present in the US and the rest of the world. That is the point I have been trying to make. Ahh well . . .