origins of the SDA

[benidict]

hi yall. what are the origins of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and by what authority did the founders of SDA, start their movement? was it a work of God, or was it of man? did Ellen G. White indeed have the spirit of prophecy? if so, then she really would be speaking for God, and we would be in error, not to follow her teachings. Adventist, feel free to convince me. i will gladly convert, if you can prove that E.G. White was truly, a prophetess. Peace

 

[pablope]

hi yall. what are the origins of the Seventh Day Adventist Church, and by what authority did the founders of SDA, start their movement? was it a work of God, or was it of man? did Ellen G. White indeed have the spirit of prophecy? if so, then she really would be speaking for God, and we would be in error, not to follow her teachings. Adventist, feel free to convince me. i will gladly convert, if you can prove that E.G. White was truly, a prophetess. Peace

catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp

Adventist History

The Seventh-Day Adventist church traces its roots to American preacher William Miller (1782–1849), a Baptist who predicted the Second Coming would occur between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Because he and his followers proclaimed Christ’s imminent advent, they were known as “Adventists.”

When Christ failed to appear, Miller reluctantly endorsed the position of a group of his followers known as the “seventh-month movement,” who claimed Christ would return on October 22, 1844 (in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar).

When this didn’t happen either, Miller forswore predicting the date of the Second Coming, and his followers broke up into a number of competing factions. Miller would have nothing to do with the new theories his followers produced, including ones which attempted to save part of his 1844 doctrine. He rejected this and other teachings being generated by his former followers, including those of Ellen Gould White.

Miller had claimed, based on his interpretation of Daniel and Revelation, that Christ would return in 1843–44 to cleanse “the sanctuary” (Dan. 8:11–14, 9:26), which he interpreted as the earth. After the disappointments of 1844, several of his followers proposed an alternative theory. While walking in a cornfield on the morning of October 23, 1844, the day after Christ failed to return, Hiram Edson felt he received a spiritual revelation that indicated that Miller had misidentified the sanctuary. It was not the earth, but the Holy of Holies in God’s heavenly temple. Instead of coming out of the heavenly temple to cleanse the sanctuary of the earth, in 1844 Christ, for the first time, went into the heavenly Holy of Holies to cleanse it instead.

Another group of Millerites was influenced by Joseph Bates, a retired sea captain, who in 1846 and 1849 issued pamphlets insisting that Christians observe the Jewish Sabbath—Saturday—instead of worshipping on Sunday. This helped feed the intense anti-Catholicism of Seventh-Day Adventism, since they blamed the Catholic Church for changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

These two streams of thought—Christ entering the heavenly sanctuary and the need to keep the Jewish Sabbath—were combined by White, who claimed to have received many visions confirming these doctrines. Together with Edson and Bates, she formed the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination, which officially received its name in 1860.

 

[benidict]

very good start Pablo. also william miller, and joseph bates were both 32nd degree masons were they not? could it be possible, they used numerological formulas, found in speculative masonry, to come to their conclusions reguarding their interpretation of the prophecies and revelation? Peace

 

[pablope]

very good start Pablo. also william miller, and joseph bates were both 32nd degree masons were they not? could it be possible, they used numerological formulas, found in speculative masonry, to come to their conclusions reguarding their interpretation of the prophecies and revelation? Peace

You are welcome ben…I thought the discussion could use a history snapshot. I did a quick google on both these men, Miller was a mason, but nothing on Bates.

 

[benidict]

catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp

Adventist History

The Seventh-Day Adventist church traces its roots to American preacher William Miller (1782–1849), a Baptist who predicted the Second Coming would occur between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Because he and his followers proclaimed Christ’s imminent advent, they were known as “Adventists.”

When Christ failed to appear, Miller reluctantly endorsed the position of a group of his followers known as the “seventh-month movement,” who claimed Christ would return on October 22, 1844 (in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar).

When this didn’t happen either, Miller forswore predicting the date of the Second Coming, and his followers broke up into a number of competing factions. Miller would have nothing to do with the new theories his followers produced, including ones which attempted to save part of his 1844 doctrine. He rejected this and other teachings being generated by his former followers, including those of Ellen Gould White.

Miller had claimed, based on his interpretation of Daniel and Revelation, that Christ would return in 1843–44 to cleanse “the sanctuary” (Dan. 8:11–14, 9:26), which he interpreted as the earth. After the disappointments of 1844, several of his followers proposed an alternative theory. While walking in a cornfield on the morning of October 23, 1844, the day after Christ failed to return, Hiram Edson felt he received a spiritual revelation that indicated that Miller had misidentified the sanctuary. It was not the earth, but the Holy of Holies in God’s heavenly temple. Instead of coming out of the heavenly temple to cleanse the sanctuary of the earth, in 1844 Christ, for the first time, went into the heavenly Holy of Holies to cleanse it instead.

Another group of Millerites was influenced by Joseph Bates, a retired sea captain, who in 1846 and 1849 issued pamphlets insisting that Christians observe the Jewish Sabbath—Saturday—instead of worshipping on Sunday. This helped feed the intense anti-Catholicism of Seventh-Day Adventism, since they blamed the Catholic Church for changing the day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

These two streams of thought—Christ entering the heavenly sanctuary and the need to keep the Jewish Sabbath—were combined by White, who claimed to have received many visions confirming these doctrines. Together with Edson and Bates, she formed the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination, which officially received its name in 1860.

Pablo, if im not mistaken, Ellen did not recieve her visions about the sabbath, until after she had read Joseph Bates writings on this subject, and became convinced herself, they were correct. i look forward to the Adventist giving their take on these things. im up and at em, its almost noon where im at, and still night, in the united states. lol! Peace

 

[po18guy]

Pablo, if im not mistaken, Ellen did not recieve her visions about the sabbath, until after she had read Joseph Bates writings on this subject, and became convinced herself, they were correct. i look forward to the Adventist giving their take on these things. im up and at em, its almost noon where im at, and still night, in the united states. lol! Peace

Ellen Gould White received a fairly severe head injury from a rock thrown at her in her youth. She was comatose for two weeks. Later, she worked in her family’s hat-making business, where she was apparently exposed to mercury, which was used in the hat making process of that time. Only after these two events did she begin receiving her “visions”.

Any faith which claims a true prophet after the death of the Apostle John has a foundation of sand. Interestingly, the three “adventist” faiths that almost simultaneously sprang up in 19th century America (SDA, LDS, JW) relied on on-going prophecy for much of their doctrine.

 

[benidict]

Ellen Gould White received a fairly severe head injury from a rock thrown at her in her youth. She was comatose for two weeks. Later, she worked in her family’s hat-making business, where she was apparently exposed to mercury, which was used in the hat making process of that time. Only after these two events did she begin receiving her “visions”.

Any faith which claims a true prophet after the death of the Apostle John has a foundation of sand. Interestingly, the three “adventist” faiths that almost simultaneously sprang up in 19th century America (SDA, LDS, JW) relied on on-going prophecy for much of their doctrine.

i have seen studies, that some scientist think she may have suffered from complex seizure disorder. my daugter suffers from this as well. some people with this condition, actually think they are seeing visions of angels, and the heavenlies. my daughter has a milder form. she describes it as somewhat of a deja vu experience. could it be that Ellen suffered from this condition, and that combined with the power of suggestion in the form of Josheph Bates writings, she had her visions?

 

[po18guy]

i have seen studies, that some scientist think she may have suffered from complex seizure disorder. my daugter suffers from this as well. some people with this condition, actually think they are seeing visions of angels, and the heavenlies. my daughter has a milder form. she describes it as somewhat of a deja vu experience. could it be that Ellen suffered from this condition, and that combined with the power of suggestion in the form of Josheph Bates writings, she had her visions?

They apparently believe that Jesus is actually St. Michael the Archangel, based on the same faulty logic and private interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as the JWs use. How can eternal God be at the same time a created being?

 

[benidict]

They apparently believe that Jesus is actually St. Michael the Archangel, based on the same faulty logic and private interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as the JWs use. How can eternal God be at the same time a created being?

yes. this is something else i hope they can discuss with us. their Christology. do they have the same Jesus we do? or is there something else they teach their adherents after their conversion?

 

[po18guy]

yes. this is something else i hope they can discuss with us. their Christology. do they have the same Jesus we do? or is there something else they teach their adherents after their conversion?

As with all denominations, once you reject the Church and its authority, and place the ego in charge, all doctrines are wide open.

 

[benidict]

i am going to give our Adventist friends, the benefit of the doubt, as to why they are not responding, and chalk it up to Christmas. hopefully they will engage. Peace

 

[pablope]

i am going to give our Adventist friends, the benefit of the doubt, as to why they are not responding, and chalk it up to Christmas. hopefully they will engage. Peace

It is the holiday, Ben, and I think everone is out with family. Blessings to you and wish the best of Chrismas.

 

[vera_dicere]

When I was 12 my mum sent me to a craft day for kids and it was run by the SDA, they took us aside in small groups first and told us “We don’t want to scare you, but the world is goign to end in three years - so when you’re 15”.

Well, I’m 29, the earth is still here and I’m still waiting for a SDA to explain this to me.

 

[benidict]

When I was 12 my mum sent me to a craft day for kids and it was run by the SDA, they took us aside in small groups first and told us “We don’t want to scare you, but the world is goign to end in three years - so when you’re 15”.

Well, I’m 29, the earth is still here and I’m still waiting for a SDA to explain this to me.

this raises some interesting questions. do the SDA still date set? glad your still here by the way. lol! have a safe and Blessed Christmas

 

[Scaun]

They apparently believe that Jesus is actually St. Michael the Archangel, based on the same faulty logic and private interpretation of 1 Thessalonians 4:16 as the JWs use. How can eternal God be at the same time a created being?

If I’m not mistaken, they actually see “Michael the Archangel” as another name for Jesus, thus “Michael the Archangel” is not a created being. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant for now. My point is that, as far as I understood from what I read, ‘Michael the Archangel’ is supposedly another name for Jesus.

MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL … JESUS?

This is what I understood from the above link, which is Adventist as far as I know.

 

[po18guy]

If I’m not mistaken, they actually see “Michael the Archangel” as another name for Jesus, thus “Michael the Archangel” is not a created being. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant for now. My point is that, as far as I understood from what I read, ‘Michael the Archangel’ is supposedly another name for Jesus.

MICHAEL THE ARCHANGEL … JESUS?

This is what I understood from the above link, which is Adventist as far as I know.

I got all the way to the first assumption (between scripture passages) before I found faulty logic and faulty interpretation of scripture. But, repeat it often enough, or hear it from a “prophetess” and you might just come to believe it. At least two of the “adventist” religions (SDA and JWs) have this fascination with the Jesus/Michael blend. Of course, they are obsessed with the end times, which came 100 years ago for their founders, when God called them to account. Yet, the earth still exists, and we still watch the sky daily.

 

[benidict]

I got all the way to the first assumption (between scripture passages) before I found faulty logic and faulty interpretation of scripture. But, repeat it often enough, or hear it from a “prophetess” and you might just come to believe it. At least two of the “adventist” religions (SDA and JWs) have this fascination with the Jesus/Michael blend. Of course, they are obsessed with the end times, which came 100 years ago for their founders, when God called them to account. Yet, the earth still exists, and we still watch the sky daily.

thanks for answering Scaun po18guy. i honestly couldnt make much sense of the article. they seem to have taken Church Fathers out of context to support their views though. the quotes from the Church Fathers, didnt seem to support their theory. i will have to re read the article to get a better understanding. thanx much. Peace

 

[cthulhubryan]

catholic.com/library/Seventh_Day_Adventism.asp

Adventist History

The Seventh-Day Adventist church traces its roots to American preacher William Miller (1782–1849), a Baptist who predicted the Second Coming would occur between March 21, 1843, and March 21, 1844. Because he and his followers proclaimed Christ’s imminent advent, they were known as “Adventists.”

When Christ failed to appear, Miller reluctantly endorsed the position of a group of his followers known as the “seventh-month movement,” who claimed Christ would return on October 22, 1844 (in the seventh month of the Jewish calendar).

When this didn’t happen either, Miller forswore predicting the date of the Second Coming, and his followers broke up into a number of competing factions. Miller would have nothing to do with the new theories his followers produced, including ones which attempted to save part of his 1844 doctrine. He rejected this and other teachings being generated by his former followers, including those of Ellen Gould White.

CthulhuBryan's Big Book of Cults:

If your sects founders/leaders have predicted the end of the world/return of Christ incorrectly, you may be in a cult.
If this has happened more than once, you are in a cult.
If more than twice, you should consider your gullibility. Also, talk to a priest

 

[po18guy]

thanks for answering Scaun po18guy. i honestly couldnt make much sense of the article. they seem to have taken Church Fathers out of context to support their views though. the quotes from the Church Fathers, didnt seem to support their theory. i will have to re read the article to get a better understanding. thanx much. Peace

Frankly, it fails on its face. They assume that the “Angel of the Lord”, through their own cognitive contortions, simply must refer to Jesus. Have you ever seen Monty Python and the Holy Grail, in which such contorted logic is used to determine whether or not a woman is a witch? Inductive, agenda-driven reasoning at its worst - when applied to God’s truth.

 

[barboza21]

Hi all, interesting thread!

I can’t believe there are no responses from our fellow adventist brothers/sisters.

I once read that Ellen White actually profetized that she would be alive at the second coming… Is this true? Where did she say this? because she’s been gone for a while, and I hope I didn’t miss Jesus…

Merry Christmas! (Still celebrating)