Orthodox and birth control

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Chaldean_Rite said:
You are presupposes an actual Sacrament happened.
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Aha! So it did not really happen! The couple really did not want to get married–but some do not realize this for many years.
Chaldean_Rite said:
Catechism of the Catholic Church
**1623 **According to Latin tradition, the spouses as ministers of Christ’s grace mutually confer upon each other the sacrament of Matrimony by expressing their consent before the Church. In the tradition of the Eastern Churches, the priests (bishops or presbyters) are witnesses to the mutual consent given by the spouses, but for the validity of the sacrament their blessing is also necessary.
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So then Eastern Catholics would not be eligible for a decree of nullity? :confused:
 
Jennifer_J said:
If a Catholic couple needs to not get pregnant, they have recourse to NFP and to total abstinence until the situation is resolved or the woman enters menopause. While you might find it heartless, it’s how things were done for CENTURIES in both the Catholic AND Orthadox Church. I don’t think it’s heartless, I think it’s consistant moral theology…
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Really? NFP has been around that long?
 
I didn’t read the whole thread, forgive me, but it seems to me the Orthodox are missing something here, chemical contraception, almost all of it is abortifacient, I.E. causes chemical abortions. If the Orthodox are aware of this… they cannot condone it. Under any circumstances.
 
Mickey said:
Aha! So it did not really happen! The couple really did not want to get married–but some do not realize this for many years.
So then Eastern Catholics would not be eligible for a decree of nullity? :confused:
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I don’t think that would be a valid conclusion. Just as the for the validity of the Sacrametn of Penance, the preist must say “I abolve you in the name of the Father…”, but if you have no sorrow, the Sacrament is not valid. So in order for a valid Sacrament the Church must do her job (witness and blessing) and the people (in the case of Penance and Matrimony) must do theirs. Unlike Eucharist, the lay have no say since they do not provide the matter or form.
 
Brady_W said:
I didn’t read the whole thread, forgive me, but it seems to me the Orthodox are missing something here, chemical contraception, almost all of it is abortifacient, I.E. causes chemical abortions. If the Orthodox are aware of this… they cannot condone it. Under any circumstances.
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We do not.
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
I don’t think that would be a valid conclusion. Just as the for the validity of the Sacrametn of Penance, the preist must say “I abolve you in the name of the Father…”, but if you have no sorrow, the Sacrament is not valid. So in order for a valid Sacrament the Church must do her job (witness and blessing) and the people (in the case of Penance and Matrimony) must do theirs.
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So what if everyone does “their job”, and the couple still gets a decree of nullity. Is the annulment annulled? 😃
 
oh. I thought I read that you allow couples to use birth control in certain instances…
 
ok, nevermind, I went back and read a little further, Orthodox seems to put a no go on the chemical contraceptives.
 
Brady_W said:
oh. I thought I read that you allow couples to use birth control in certain instances…
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There are some extreme situations under the direction of spiritual father where a couple **may **be permitted to use condoms.
 
Mickey said:
So what if everyone does “their job”, and the couple still gets a decree of nullity. Is the annulment annulled? 😃
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No, because there is no such thing as divorce. The annulments are a mercy of the Church and if their is deciet in one of the parties, they are bearing false witness to the Church and if they were to be married again, adultery on top of it.

“Marriage enjoys the favor of the law; consequently, when a doubt exists, the validity of a marriage is to be upheld until the contrary is proven” (, No. 1060).
Code: 
more [URL='http://www.ewtn.com/library/ANSWERS/EXPLAIN.HTM']here[/URL].
 
Jennifer_J said:
If a Catholic couple needs to not get pregnant, they have recourse to NFP…
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As I mentioned in my post NFP did not work for this couple…4 additional children and the mother nearly losing her life in the process has proved that.

God created this couple in the time in which sterlization is medically possible which like antibiotics was not available in the past.

For the Church to allow a couple to avail themselves of this available medical care in extreme situations as this is merciful and loving.
 
StMarina303ad said:
As I mentioned in my post NFP did not work for this couple…4 additional children and the mother nearly losing her life in the process has proved that.

God created this couple in the time in which sterlization is medically possible which like antibiotics was not available in the past.

For the Church to allow a couple to avail themselves of this available medical care in extreme situations as this is merciful and loving.
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There are several forms of NFP (4 that I can think of) that use different biological cues–I would wonder if one of them would be better for this woman, certainly before mutiliating her husband. No contraception or birth control is 100% effective–barring total removal of organs–not even sterilization (it has a failure rate). Only total abstinence is 100% effective in avoiding conception. If she was really in that dire of straits, then total abstinence is the only way to be 100% sure she doesn’t get pregnant…

Just because something has been invented by man doesn’t make it good…doesn’t make it merciful or loving…
 
Chaldean_Rite said:
He also created us in a time with invitro fertilization, is that ok too?
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Your comment is ridiculous.

There *are *valid reasons for “**not **needing” to get pregnant (such as the real life example I gave above), but I’ve never heard of a valid reason for “needing” to get pregnant.

“But I’ve always wanted a baby” just doesn’t cut it. There are abandoned babies all over who need adoption. “But I don’t want to raise someone else’s kid” = to greed. Those who are greedy according to the New Testament will not inherit the Kingdom of God. “But I don’t qualify to be an adoptive parent” - hint, hint…God might be telling you something.
 
StMarina303ad said:
Your comment is ridiculous.

There *are *valid reasons for “**not **needing” to get pregnant (such as the real life example I gave above), but I’ve never heard of a valid reason for “needing” to get pregnant.

“But I’ve always wanted a baby” just doesn’t cut it. There are abandoned babies all over who need adoption. “But I don’t want to raise someone else’s kid” = to greed. Those who are greedy according to the New Testament will not inherit the Kingdom of God. “But I don’t qualify to be an adoptive parent” - hint, hint…God might be telling you something.
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*Is in-vitro fertilization morally acceptable?
*
 
Brady_W said:
I didn’t read the whole thread, forgive me, but it seems to me the Orthodox are missing something here, chemical contraception, almost all of it is abortifacient, I.E. causes chemical abortions. If the Orthodox are aware of this… they cannot condone it. Under any circumstances.
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We don’t condone abortifacients for any reason, although I’m fairly certain a spermicide isn’t an abortifacient.

Yours in Christ
Joe
 
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