Orthodox-Are the Jews Still God's Chosen People?

[SingleMomMonica]

This gives me a better understanding of the Orthodox view.

I’d have to adjust your comment to say: “This gives me a better understanding of an Orthodox view.” I wrote my understanding based on what I know as an Orthodox Christian. You may want to read like maybe St. John Chrysostom’s commentary on the book of Romans.

What happens next? What happens when the “hardening” of the Jewish heart is removed?

Only those Jews who have rejected Christ which has caused a hardening of their hearts have the power to choose to remove the hardness from their own hearts.

A hardening of someone’s heart on an issue is that individual person’s choice.

There isn’t one Jewish heart, but as many hearts as their are Jews. Each member of the Jewish race has a choice to accept Christ as God or deny Him and His Church. A hardening of someone’s heart comes from their repeated and continued choice for sin rather than God.

Like for example: a teenage girl chooses to lose her virginity - she feels guity, she knows in her gut that it was wrong for her to have done that. As a result of that sin, the next time sexual temptation presents itself, it is easier for her to ignore her heart and sin again. Over the course of time of continuing to sin in this manner, she no longer even has a twinge of guilt when she goes home with a man who is not her husband because her heart has been hardened. It was her choices which hardened it. Each person is an individual and has the ability to make the choice of what Faith they will follow. Being born into the Jewish race does not take their Free Will away - they can choose to accept or reject Christ.

Christ took on humanity to save all of humanity - all that is necessary for each and every member of the human race to be saved has already taken place. Not everyone will be saved though. The choice is ours now individually to accept or reject him.

It seems to me that you may be grouping all Jewish people together as if somehow they do not individually have the Free Will given to each member of the human race and that they are somehow exempt in their choice to leave their hearts open to God or harden them against Christ. I believe that is very wrong.

The Jews are concerning election, beloved for the sake of the fathers. Isn’t that saying the Jews really are different from other non-Christians?

No.

Remember that the Bible must be read in light of it’s entirety and in light of the teachings of the Church.

The New Testament is clear:
Galatians 3:28 “There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
Colossians 3:10 -11 “and have put on the new man who is renewed in knowledge according to the image of Him who created him, where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcised nor uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave nor free, but Christ is all and in all. Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering;” - my bolding
According to the consistent teachings of both the Bible and the Church, the “elect of God”, His “Chosen People” are members of the Christian Church - which includes people of both Jewish and non-Jewish decent.

Romans 11:25 Lest you be wise in your own sight, I want you to understand this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,

“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”

According to the New Testament, the True “Israel” is the Christian Church:
Hebrews 8 reads "7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second. 8 Because finding fault with them, He says: “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah— 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they did not continue in My covenant, and I disregarded them, says the LORD. 10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the LORD: I will put My laws in their mind and write them on their hearts; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 11 None of them shall teach his neighbor, and none his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for all shall know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them. 12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their lawless deeds** I will remember no more.”[c]
13 In that He says, “A new covenant, ” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.** - my bold

Do you believe there will be a mass conversion of the Jews at some point in history–after the “partial hardening” has been lifted?

No.

Conversions of the Jews have been occuring for centuries and are continuing in this day and age. Many are called, but few are chosen. Every member of the human race is called to the Church, but it’s a small % who follow that calling and leave their sin and old faith behind to embrace the Church and with it the Christian Faith. That small % includes people of all races, including the Jewish race.

 

[Michael_Forrest]

You may want to read like maybe St. John Chrysostom’s commentary on the book of Romans.

Here are a few quotes from St. John Chrysostom on the issue of the “Conversion of the Jews” (other quotes from the fathers, saints, popes and scholars of the Church may be found here: sungenisandthejews.com/Addenda_and_Bio.html)

St. John Chrysostom:

**A) **Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans (NPNF, vol 11, p 493)

Ver.25. “For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery,
lest ye should be wise in your own conceits.”

Meaning by mystery here, that which is unknown and unutterable, and hath
much of wonder and much of what one should not expect about it. As in another
passage too he says, “Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all sleep, but we
shall all be changed.” ( 1 Cor. xv. 5 1.) What then is the mystery?

“That blindness in part hath happened unto Israel.” Here again he levels a blow
at the Jew, while seeming to take down the Gentile. But his meaning is nearly this,
and he had said it before, that the unbelief is not universal, but only “in part.” As
when he says, “But if any hath caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part”
(2 Cor. ii. 5): And, so here too he says what he had said above, “God hath not
cast off His people whom He foreknew” (Rom. xi. 2): and again, “What then?
Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid” (ib. 1 1): This then he says
here also; that it is not the whole people that is pulled up, but many have already
believed, and more are likely to believe. Then as he had promised a great thing,
he adduces the prophet in evidence, speaking as follows. Now it is not for the fact of a blindness having happened that he quotes the passage (for every one could see that), but that they shall believe and be saved, he brings Isaiah to witness, who crieth aloud and saith,

Ver.26. “There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away
ungodliness from Jacob.” (Is. lix. 20.) Then to give the mark that fixes its sense to salvation, to prevent any one from drawing it aside and attaching it to times gone by, he says,

Ver. 27. “For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their
sins.”Not when they are circumcised, not when they sacrifice, not when they
do the other deeds of the Law, but when they attain to the forgiveness of sins.
If then this hath been promised, but has never yet happened in their case, nor
have they ever enjoyed the remission of sins by baptism, certainly it will come
to pass. Hence he proceeds,Ver.29. “For the gifts and calling of God are
without repentance.”

And even this is not all he says to solace them, for he uses what had already
come about. And what came in of consequence, that he states as chiefly
intended, putting it in these words,

Ver. 28. “As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but
as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.” That the
Gentile then might not be puffed up, and say, “I am standing, do not tell me
of what would have been, but what has been,” he uses this consideration to
bring him down, and says, “As concerning the Gospel, they are enemies for
your sakes.” For when you were called they became more captious. Nevertheless God hath not even now cut short the calling of you, but He waiteth for all the Gentiles that are to believe to come in, and then they (the Jews) also shall come.

B) Homilies on Matthew (LXVI)

But He did these things, as I said, signifying beforehand the things to come. For
here the church is signified by the colt, and the new people, which was once
unclean, but which, after Jesus sat on them, became clean. And see the image
preserved throughout. I mean that the disciples loose the asses. For by the
apostles, both they and we were called; by the apostles were we brought near.

But because our acceptance provoked them also to emulation, therefore the donkey appears following the colt. For after Christ hath sat on the Gentiles, then shall they [the Jews] also come moving us to emulation. And Paul declaring this, said, “That blindnesss in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in; and so all Israel shall be saved.” For that it was a prophecy is evident from what is said. For neither would the prophet have cared to express with such great exactness the age of the donkey, unless this had been so.

C) Homilies on Romans (XIX)

But let us see if the fall is of such kind as to be incurable, and quite preclude
their being set up again. But of such kind it is not. You see how he is attacking
them again, and under the expectation of some allayment he proves them guilty
of confessed sins. But let us see what even by way of allayment he does devise
for them. Now what is the allayment? “When the fulness of the Gentiles,”
he says, “shall have come in, then shall all Israel be saved,” at the time
of his second coming, and the end of the world. …

 

[Michael_Forrest]

Quotes from St. Chrysostom continued:

D) Homily XIX on Rom. 11, Ver 15 (NPNF Vol 1 1, page 490):

'For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the
receiving of them be but life from the dead? ’ …But see also even in his favors
to them, how he solaces them in words only. 'For if the casting away of them
be the reconciling of the world, ’ (and what is this to the Jews?) 'what shall the
receiving of them be but life from the dead? ’ Yet even this was no boon to
them, unless they had been received. But what he means is to this effect: If in
anger with them He gave other men so great gifts, when He is reconciled
to them what will He not give? '" (Note that he says not “if” but “when”
God is reconciled to the Jews.)

E) Homily XIX on Rom. 11 ver. 27: “For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins”. Not when they are circumcised….but when they attain to the forgiveness of sins. If then this hath been promised, but has never yet happened in their case, nor have they ever enjoyed the remission of sins by baptism, certainly it will come to pass.

F) NPNF Vol 11, page 489, ver. 12:

“Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and diminishing of them the
riches of the Gentiles, how much more their fulness?.. ’ For if when they
stumbled, he says, so many enjoyed salvation, and when they were case out
so many were called, just consider what will be the case when they return. …
Now, he does not say, 'how much more their 'return, or their altering, or their
well-doing, but 'how much more their fulness ', that is, when they are all about coming in.”

G) Homily on Ep. to the Rom, chap 11:

“Seeing the Gentiles abusing little by little their grace, God will recall a second time the Jews.”

H) Homilies on Matthew, Homily LVII:

“Wherefore He too, guiding them on to that remembrance, said, ‘And he shall
restore all things’, that is, shall correct the unbelief of the Jews that are then
in being. Hence the extreme accuracy of his expression, in that he did not say,
‘He will restore the heart of the son to the father’, but, ‘of the father to the son.’
For the Jews being fathers of the apostles, His meaning is that he will restore to
the doctrines of their sons, that is, the apostles, the hearts of the fathers, that is,
the Jewish people’s mind.”

I) Ancient Christian Commentary on Scripture, Bray, Vol VI, page 299:

“When the Gentiles believed, the Jews became even more obnoxious. But even
now god has not stopped calling the Gentiles. He is waiting for all of them who are to
believe to come in, and then the rest of the Jews will come as well.”

.

 

[Anna_Scott]

Quotes from St. Chrysostom continued. . .

Thank you Michael for posting these quotes from St. Chrysostom. They are very interesting. I hope for comments from Orthodox forum members.

Thank you so much for your contributions to this Thread, and to the Catholic one as well.

Anna

 

[firstmode]

Any new opinions on this topic?

 

[Nine_Two]

Any new opinions on this topic?

I assume you’re asking for anyone, and just not Orthodox, since the Orthodox were unanimous.

 

[KLIBERA24]

The covenant is inviolate. The Jewish people are still considered God’s chosen people. The word chosen here has the implied meaning of “having a burden placed upon.” The Jewish people have the privilege, selection, or burden, if you will, of bringing about God’s mission. Having a burden or special privilege placed upon oneself does not imply that things will always be easy or without challenge. Of course we get to the first century & then Jesus appears & shepherds the Gentiles. So why? In Paul’s first letter to Romans, Paul points out that “Israel is always saved.” It is God’s purpose that the Jewish people be temporarily blinded in order that God could rescue the Gentiles at this time (who were without religion). If the Jews had accepted Christ as a whole–and of course many did–they became the first Jewish Christians–then the Gentiles might have been simply left out or ostrasized. Don’t forget this was the same trick that God played with Pharaoh of Exodus. Remember it was God who hardened Pharaoh’s heart in order to bring about a deeper mission–the resiliency of the Israelites. So it makes sense that salvation for the Jewish people is done by a different ladder (their blindness to be assuaged probably at the time of the last days.) The 2nd coming of Christ, as stated in Isaiah & elsewhere, then becomes the first coming for the Jews. When you look at this & then examine prophecies in the Old Testament, one must figure that the explanation makes sense. All Old Testament prophecies have been & will still be fulfilled–on God’s watch. The imposition of “burden” has been seen in modern times. The Jews remained resilient to God in spite of the Holocaust. The state of Israel was then founded thereafter. From another aspect on the salvation issue–which is clearly profound–I suppose one needs to think like God would rather than how fallible man would. Consider the status of someone like Anne Frank or Jonas Salk. Both are Jews & their contributions to humanity are as we know. What purpose would it serve if God abandoned them. That would show that God is not true to his word & perhaps fickle. Now compare these 2 figures with the likes of Hitler. Hitler was a Catholic. Look at his record. What would be the purpose of then favoring Hitler based on his baptism & then not holding him accountable for his deeds which were clearly outside the grace of God. His deeds were beyond heinous. They were incredulous. He was evil incarnate–by his own will. Then why would God save anyone who clearly has exemplified a life outside the grace of God.

 

[KLIBERA24]

Furthermore on the issue, it seems that over the course of humanity God appears to select a group of people, they screw up, & then he selects another group. Don’t forget the Christians had their own shortcomings (Inquisition) & executed many people. Where does God say that this should be their mission. Look at modern times. In the 7th century we have the birth of Islam. What now another selected people. No one group has a monopoly on God. One has to realize that you cannot take the Bible literally–don’t forget the New Testament was written by a group of editors or scholars with a certain opinion. Some books of course were left out. The sheer diversity of humanity implies there are different avenues of presenting God’s mission. Consider that Christianity only accounts for 25% of the global population’s religion. Then what of the others? Well it does not make sense that they should all be doomed. There are different ways of exercising God’s mission & that is seen today even among the many denominations. You have those human beings who are decent & those who clearly have lost their way & adapted Satan’s ways.

 

[SteveVH]

So, do you believe the promises God made to Israel, no longer apply, in any way, to the Jewish people who have not accepted Christ?

Anna

Hi Anna. Very interesting thread.

I believe that God’s promise to Israel was the Messiah, Jesus Christ. God always keeps His promises. The Jews will always be God’s chosen people and their destiny is in Jesus Christ. They are our elder brothers and sisters in the faith and their Sacred texts make up the greatest portion of our Sacred texts.

“In order to gather together scattered humanity God calls Abram from his country, his kindred, and his father’s house, and makes him Abraham, that is, ‘the father of a multitude of nations.’ ‘In you all the nations of the earth shall be blessed’”.
(CCC par. 59)

“The people descended from Abraham would be the trustees of the promise made to the patriarchs, the chosen people, called to prepare for that day when God would gather all his children into the unity of the Church. They would be the root onto which the Gentiles would be grafted, once they came to believe.” (CCC par. 60)

“The patriarchs, prophets and certain other Old Testament figures have been and will be honored as saints in all the Church’s liturgical traditions.” (CCC par. 61)

“The remote preparation for this gathering together of the People of God begins when he calls Abraham and promises that he will become the father of a great people. Its immediate preparation begins with Israel’s election as the People of God. By this election, Israel is to be the sign of the future gathering of all nations. But the prophets accuse Israel of breaking the covenant and behaving like a prostitute. They announce a new and eternal covenant. Christ instituted this New Covenant.” (CCC par. 762)

They are God’s chosen people, but they, like the rest of us, have only one way to heaven and that is through Jesus Christ. The Church is the extension of the chosen people. Through nothing but God’s gratuitous love we now join them in this status as the People of God.

Hope everything is well with you Anna.

God bless.

Steve

 

[KLIBERA24]

Again-I must reiterate that Biblical verses cannot be taken literally. The New Testament was composed by different schools of thought. We have no proof of what Jesus said or did not say. Many of the early editors of the Bible clearly had biased overtones regarding the Jews. One must figure that God has a particular plan for the Jews & it will come in the latter days–otherwise what would be the point of the Second Coming. There are 2 types of messianic prophecies in the Old Testament–those of the suffering servant (which has been fulfilled) & those of the warrior-type messiah (the Second Coming). The ultimate conversion of the Jews will come on God’s appointed time. The problem with organized religion today is the tendency to proclaim an exclusive belonging to God. One’s accounting on earth is best measured by whether one has followed the commandments, the beatitudes, the acts of mercy, the Golden Rule. The contributions of the Jewish people to humanity cannot be understated. If it were not so, we would have seen incarnate evil. Some people also seem to forget that Jesus & the Apostles were practicing Jews. Christianity was technically founded by Paul. Jesus did not come to establish a new religion–only to right the convoluted practice of the existing one. Revelation speaks of New Jerusalem–not Rome–so it makes sense that God himself has something more profound planned. Christians await anxiously the day of the Second Coming as much as Jews await the First Coming. Then we can hope that which plagues mankind–disease, war, murder, greed, deceit–will be abolished forever. The coming of Elijah will precede that day of coming of the Lord. With regard to the issue of salvation, none of us can know for sure but I would tend to think optimistically. The Catholic Catechism even states for example that the fate of Judas Iscariot is known only to God alone so it goes to show you how profound the question is.