Okay, then, I didn’t realize I was out of bounds. But I think the issue of the Pope is more than just a fraction of 5%. In any event, when Orthodox theologians start talking about us being “different men,” I’m thinking that the Orthodox aren’t particularly interested in reunion with us. I mean, people with different beliefs, certainly. But different men?
Where on earth did you read or hear that? And what was meant by it? And in what context was it said or written? Very strange, indeed!
.Perhaps what he is referring to is Phos Hilarion (Joyful Light), a speech Patriarch Bartholomew made before the very Catholic Georgetown University.
Patriarch Bartholomew did some studies in Rome, where he was able to observe the Papacy/Roman Catholic church up close and became acquainted with the future Cardinal Ratzinger/Pope Benedict XVI. They have been friends ever since. I am sure his comments were sincere and not malicious in intent.My belief is that the Orthodox are interested in reunion, but on their terms. So…maybe you’re right, and they aren’t
Yeah, I really have no idea what that means–“ontologically different”.
I don’t mean different species, if that’s what you are worried about.Ontology, in my humble understanding of it, is the nature of “being” itself. I hope Michael is not saying that Orthodox and Catholics are altogether different types of human being or…? I have no idea what he meant and that’s why I asked him to clarify. Having known him a long time on here and respecting him a great deal, I doubt that he means it this way. At least I hope he doesn’t!
I don’t mean different species, if that’s what you are worried about.
Our belief systems are categorically different, and from my observations here at CAF we have different “world views”, or perspectives. As time goes on I fear that were are evolving into two different religions, not just different churches. The process has been well on it’s way for a while.
I think the Protestant churches and their teachings are closer to the Roman Catholic that Orthodoxy is. This is why Protestants and Roman Catholics can fight on and on and on about some things, and both parties are fully aware of the other party’s position and the ground rules of discussion but simply disagree. Many of these same discussions are not even relevant to Orthodox and you will seldom find Orthodox participating in them.
Give us an example of a discussion that Catholics have with Protestants that are not relevant to the Orthodox, please.I don’t mean different species, if that’s what you are worried about.
Our belief systems are categorically different, and from my observations here at CAF we have different “world views”, or perspectives. As time goes on I fear that were are evolving into two different religions, not just different churches. The process has been well on it’s way for a while.
I think the Protestant churches and their teachings are closer to the Roman Catholic than Orthodoxy is. They may be polar opposites in opinion, but the question is clearly identical from both sides. This is why Protestants and Roman Catholics can fight on and on and on about some things, and both parties are fully aware of the other party’s position and the ground rules of discussion but simply disagree. The beliefs (pro and con) are in the same categories.
Many of these same discussions are not even relevant to Orthodox and you will seldom find Orthodox participating in them.
Maybe some Orthodox are. Timothy Ware seems to be on some level. But the Moscow Patriarch is definitely not interested, and the vast majority of Orthodox who past here are not interested in the least. That’s why they’ll overplay our differences with vagaries like the assertion that we are “ontologically different.” Ironically, I think we’ll be able to communicate with each other better once Catholics drop all the unity talk. It makes a great deal of sense from our standpoint, I know. It would be a great witness to the world, I know. But they don’t want it, Sam I Am.Where on earth did you read or hear that? And what was meant by it? And in what context was it said or written? Very strange, indeed!
My belief is that the Orthodox are interested in reunion, but on their terms. So…maybe you’re right, and they aren’t
Funny, but I see it the other way. Not to long ago I said on another thread that the Orthodox seem to me like Protestants with sacraments, and I got blistered for being so rude. I finally apologized for offending people, because it wasn’t my intention to do that. I wasn’t trying to be rude, and I don’t think you are either.
I think you could start with the topic of Justification.
I most emphatically disagree.
I think you could start with the topic of Justification.
I most emphatically disagree.
Of course the Orthodox teach as dogma that the Holy Spirit is consubstantial with the Father and the Son. Just before the singing of the Creed, they sing “Let us love one another, so that with one mind we may confess Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, the Trinity, one in essence and undivided.” However, they do not believe that the filioque is nothing more or less than the teaching that the Holy Spirit is consubstantial with the Father and the Son. For the Orthodox, the filioque is problematic because they assert that the West unilaterally inserted it into the Creed, because they believe it is inconsistent with their belief that the Father alone is the fount of divinity, and because they believe that, when speaking of the Trinity, what is said of any two of the divine persons must be said of all three, so, from their perspective, if the Holy Spirit were to procede from the Father and the Son, then he would also have to procede from Himself.