Orthodox miracles?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Monica4316
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
M

Monica4316

Guest
Hi,

I know that our faith is not based on miracles or private revelations…

I also know that in the Catholic Church, there are many miracles that support the Catholic Church being the true one… for example, the Marian apparitions, revelations about the Papacy, stigmata…

but what should we think of Orthodox miracles that seem to support the Orthodox church being the true, original church? I know that the Holy Spirit is there too, as is Apostolic Succession and the Sacraments, and I have no problem believing that God works miracles in the EO church also… but what about miracles like this: johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/08/miraculous-holy-cloud-of-mount-tabor.html

there is also the “Holy Fire”, but I haven’t made up my mind on that one, because some Orthodox believe it is not real. There was also a miracle of the river Jordan changing direction (of the current) after being blessed by an Orthodox priest, but apparently this was a schismatic Orthodox priest - so it could be a real miracle but it doesn’t show the EOC is the original Church. Also, a while ago there was an apparition of Our Lady over a Coptic Orthodox church, but the Coptic and EO churches are not in communion, so again it does not support this idea.

I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Mount Tabor miracle… why does it only happen to the Orthodox church on Mt Tabor, even though there are other churches on the mountain too?

this miracle apparently happens on the feast of the Transfiguration both according to the Julian and Gregorian calendar… but for some reason, only in the Orthodox church, not the Catholic church that is adjacent to it… I read this a while ago and what if this is a way God is saying that the Orthodox church is the true one?? or, does this happen because they happen to have the All-Night Vigil that day, and the RCC does not?

Sorry I just start wondering about things like that sometimes because I was baptized Eastern Orthodox and later became Catholic and at times I still can’t make up my mind 😦 forgive me for my weakness of faith:o

thank you
 
what does the orthodox church teach or do that would make them unworthy of recieving gifts from our Lord?
 
Miracles are performed by God for people of all religions.

Some miracles done by God that are associated with distinctively Catholic doctrines, such as the Eucharist, are for the purpose of increasing our faith in the Church’s teaching on that subject.

But, God does not deny His help, through miracles, to those who are ignorant of the true Church. God loves everyone, and in my opinion He gives more miracles to ordinary Protestants for example, because it is harder for them to know clearly and with certainty the true teachings of Jesus.

Of course you won’t find God performing miracles that directly affirm or strengthen any heresy in any religion.

The ones we really have to pray for are those Christians who don’t repent and don’t pray to God.

“does this happen because they happen to have the All-Night Vigil that day, and the RCC does not?”

This is probably the correct answer.

The Church teaches that Catholics who don’t pray are not going to heaven.
Thus, even Muslims, with all their errors, who pray and try to learn and do God’s will, as they know it are far closer to God than those Catholics who know their faith very well, but refuse to pray and repent of their sins.
 
I agree that God can work miracles in the Orthodox church…

my point was that this particular miracle that I described, seems to suggest that the Orthodox church is the true one. I’m wondering what the Catholic response would be. 🙂
 
And there are certain miracles or supposed miracles that only came to other churches. The world-famous apparitions of the Theotokos in Egypt in the 1960s occurred over a Coptic Orthodox Church, not a Greek Orthodox one. Our Lady of Fatima appeared in Catholic Portugal, and not Eastern Orthodox Serbia or Oriental Orthodox Eritrea. I’d say that the conclusions you draw from these facts says more about you than about the Church you belong to.
 
Monica4316 said:
Hi,

I know that our faith is not based on miracles or private revelations…

I also know that in the Catholic Church, there are many miracles that support the Catholic Church being the true one… for example, the Marian apparitions, revelations about the Papacy, stigmata…

but what should we think of Orthodox miracles that seem to support the Orthodox church being the true, original church? I know that the Holy Spirit is there too, as is Apostolic Succession and the Sacraments, and I have no problem believing that God works miracles in the EO church also… but what about miracles like this: johnsanidopoulos.com/2010/08/miraculous-holy-cloud-of-mount-tabor.html

there is also the “Holy Fire”, but I haven’t made up my mind on that one, because some Orthodox believe it is not real. There was also a miracle of the river Jordan changing direction (of the current) after being blessed by an Orthodox priest, but apparently this was a schismatic Orthodox priest - so it could be a real miracle but it doesn’t show the EOC is the original Church. Also, a while ago there was an apparition of Our Lady over a Coptic Orthodox church, but the Coptic and EO churches are not in communion, so again it does not support this idea.

I’d be interested in your thoughts about the Mount Tabor miracle… why does it only happen to the Orthodox church on Mt Tabor, even though there are other churches on the mountain too?

this miracle apparently happens on the feast of the Transfiguration both according to the Julian and Gregorian calendar… but for some reason, only in the Orthodox church, not the Catholic church that is adjacent to it… I read this a while ago and what if this is a way God is saying that the Orthodox church is the true one?? or, does this happen because they happen to have the All-Night Vigil that day, and the RCC does not?

Sorry I just start wondering about things like that sometimes because I was baptized Eastern Orthodox and later became Catholic and at times I still can’t make up my mind 😦 forgive me for my weakness of faith:o

thank you
Click to expand...
I thought it wasn’t compulsory for Catholics to believe in Marian apparitions? If that’s true it means that Catholics ought not to think that miracles support doctrine. They can’t do, can they, if belief in them is optional? It seems to me if you separate miracles from doctrine in your mind you’ll be able to see that God can and will work miracles for people that pray to Him in faith regardless of where they are on their doctrinal journey and then you probably won’t have any more doubts about your Catholic faith whenever you hear of miracles in other faiths.
 
Theres been many gifted and touched Christians over the years. I don’t know that any one validates one faith over the other, I haven’t heard that. I have read for example St Faustina and Sr Lucys messages’s from Christ/Mary, and while the context to a degree sounds Catholic. The message of salvation seems Christian in general. And very clear I might add.

I also think the Pope, as a matter of fact the last half dozen Popes in regards to approved apparitions be it Christ or Mary, have nothing but positive to say especially in regards to Fatima and Lourdes. When they say “Worthy of Belief” in fact they do believe and by stating that, it isn’t proposed as an option. No, the intent of that statement is to clarify that by believing, ones’ soul and faith is not in jeopardy. Then when the church further expands that approved apparition’s are not an obligation of faith. It means exactly that, which has no bearing on “belief” To me this is people hearing what they want to hear. That statement while true is different the “worthy of belief”. In fact all Devotions are this way, be it the Rosary, Seven Sorrows or an Apparition. Many of the Devotions stem from Apparitions such as the Seven Sorrows. And in fact Miracles can support doctrine and Lourdes and the Immaculate Conception is the example.

The Coptic Apparitions dzheremi mentioned above in Zeitoun Egypt and Fatima are two in particular I find impossible to disregard. Wouldn’t make one iota of difference of what church they relate to. To me a public display from the Holy Spirit witnessed by a mass of people from all walks of life with confirmed healings is difficult to discard. In the rational mind, I don’t know how you can discard either Zeitoun or Fatima.
 
Didn’t Christ say something about not seeking after miracles? 😉
 
UniversalistGuy said:
I don’t know. Did He?
Click to expand...
LOL…the writer of “Matthew” has Jesus stating that an “evil generation looks for miracles and signs”…no “sign” would be given but the “sign” of what happened to Jonah"…perhaps that is the passage friend Nine Two had in mind.
 
Monica4316 said:
I agree that God can work miracles in the Orthodox church…

my point was that this particular miracle that I described, seems to suggest that the Orthodox church is the true one. I’m wondering what the Catholic response would be. 🙂
Click to expand...
The Catholic Church doesn’t see the Orthodox as an “either/or” in terms of being the True Church. We both are the True Church, the two lungs of the one body of Christ.
 
ConstantineTG said:
The Catholic Church doesn’t see the Orthodox as an “either/or” in terms of being the True Church. We both are the True Church, the two lungs of the one body of Christ.
Click to expand...
But the Orthodox church rejects the “two lung” theory doesn’t it? The “two lung” is decidedly “Catholic”…not Orthodox.
 
Publisher said:
But the Orthodox church rejects the “two lung” theory doesn’t it? The “two lung” is decidedly “Catholic”…not Orthodox.
Click to expand...
I can’t speak for them directly but I would say that many of them do accept it, and many don’t as well. See, there have been a lot of ill feelings between the East and West the last 1000 years for many reasons and sometiems even if something is legit and reasonable, it is dismissed just because of the ill feelings.

The Orthodox do not deny the Roman Church and those in communion with her as a false Church.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I can’t speak for them directly but I would say that many of them do accept it, and many don’t as well. See, there have been a lot of ill feelings between the East and West the last 1000 years for many reasons and sometiems even if something is legit and reasonable, it is dismissed just because of the ill feelings.

The Orthodox do not deny the Roman Church and those in communion with her as a false Church.
Click to expand...
Isn’t it more that they know where the church is…they just don’t know where the church is not? There is only One True Chruch in Orthodoxy…isn’t there? And from what I’ve read…the Catholic church isn’t it.🙂 Nor is it a “second lung” of the True Church.
 
Publisher said:
Isn’t it more that they know where the church is…they just don’t know where the church is not? There is only One True Chruch in Orthodoxy…isn’t there? And from what I’ve read…the Catholic church isn’t it.🙂 Nor is it a “second lung” of the True Church.
Click to expand...
No, the Orthodox recognizes the Roman Church and even the Pope as legitimate and valid. They recognize the history and sees the Roman Church as breaking away from them, the same way the Catholic Church sees the Orthodox breaking away from them. The Orthodox knows that the Roman Church was established in the 50s AD by St. Peter himself. There are disagreements on doctrines but not on the validity of the Church itself.
 
You know I used to think the same thing. What with Orthodox miracles, and Catholic miracles. What really got me were the Islamic miracles(atleast according to youtube), believe it or not. Still there came a time at where I had to come to terms with these miraclulous events or I’d fall head long into moral relativism: the belief where all faiths are the same. This of course would result in a pick and choose mentality. That at least according to Sacred Scripture Jesus doesn’t want. I forgot where it’s stated in the New Testament. But, I do believe he said it’s better to be hot or cold than luke warm. Moral relativism strikes me as that luke warm state he warned us about. Don’t be luke warm my friend, pray, read the New Testament and come to terms that God reaches to those he wishes to save. Just accept that his methods are a mystery as the ways of God are inscrutable. If your a Christian and baptized then follow Jesus and his Church you’ll be better off. If your conflicted as to Orthodox or Catholic then pray and read the Early Church Fathers then see a priest.
Peace be with you
gmcbroom
 
ConstantineTG said:
No, the Orthodox recognizes the Roman Church and even the Pope as legitimate and valid. They recognize the history and sees the Roman Church as breaking away from them, the same way the Catholic Church sees the Orthodox breaking away from them. The Orthodox knows that the Roman Church was established in the 50s AD by St. Peter himself. There are disagreements on doctrines but not on the validity of the Church itself.
Click to expand...
Really?? I had a different impression after reading a few Orthodox books…“The Orthodox Church” by Timothy Ware seemed to indicate something different…maybe I misunderstood what I read.🤷
 
Publisher said:
Really?? I had a different impression after reading a few Orthodox books…“The Orthodox Church” by Timothy Ware seemed to indicate something different…maybe I misunderstood what I read.🤷
Click to expand...
As I said earlier, the views varries but they do accept the Roman Church as a valid Church because they know of its existence from the beginning. There are those who think the West is heretic, while there are those who are just waiting to resolve the issues on Papal authority and after which will readily commit to a reunion.
 
ConstantineTG said:
As I said earlier, the views varries but they do accept the Roman Church as a valid Church because they know of its existence from the beginning. There are those who think the West is heretic, while there are those who are just waiting to resolve the issues on Papal authority and after which will readily commit to a reunion.
Click to expand...
Not exactly. Most Orthodox would say we recognize that the Roman church has apostolic roots, which makes it one of the closer heterodox bodies to us, but we would not say it is valid (we don’t really use that terminology anyway). If we did, we would permit RCs to communion and allow your clergy to concelebrate with us. Such does not exist.

In Christ,
Andrew
 
Harpazo said:
Not exactly. Most Orthodox would say we recognize that the Roman church has apostolic roots, which makes it one of the closer heterodox bodies to us, but we would not say it is valid (we don’t really use that terminology anyway). If we did, we would permit RCs to communion and allow your clergy to concelebrate with us. Such does not exist.

In Christ,
Andrew
Click to expand...
Now this sounds more like the Orthodox position than friend Constantine’s understanding…which is Catholic…not Orthodox.

Friend Andrew’s view is confirmed in those Orthodox books I have read and with those Orthodox I have discussed belief with.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top