Orthodox Website Says Praying To Saints Is Praying To Satan

[mdgspencer]

.
The Orthodox do pray to the saints. See this explanation of Orthodox belief at http://orthodoxfaith.co.uk/saints
I am a Catholic, but greatly respect the Orthodox. If it was Orthodox I would feel insulted by the view from a self-called Orthodox group.

 

[CoffeeFanatic]

See, the thing is, they ain’t Orthodox, OP.

Edited to add: For future reference, these are all of the recognized Orthodox Churches: Ecumenical Patriarchate of Constantinople (autonomous: Self-governing Monastic Community of Mount Athos, Estonian Apostolic Orthodox Church, Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox Churches in Western Europe, Orthodox Church of Finland; semi-autonomous: Church of Crete; limited self-governing: Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of Italy and Malta, Korean Orthodox Church, Exarchate of the Philippines, American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Diocese, Ukrainian Orthodox Church of Canada, Ukrainian Orthodox Church of the USA), Greek Orthodox Church of Alexandria, Greek Orthodox Church of Antioch (autonomous: Antiochian Orthodox Christian Archdiocese of North America), Greek Orthodox Church of Jerusalem (autonomous: church of Orthodox Church of Mount Sinai), Bulgarian Orthodox Church, Orthodox Church of Georgia, Serbian Orthodox Church (autonomous: Orthodox Ohrid Archbishropic), Russian Orthodox Church (autonomous: Belarusian Orthodox Church, Latvian Orthodox Church, Ukrainian Orthodox Church, Metropolis of Chisinau and All Moldova, Orthodox Church in Japan, Chinese Orthodox Church; semi-autonomous: Estonian Orthodox Church of the Moscow Patriarchate, Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia), Romanian Orthodox Church (autonomous: Metropolis of Bessarabia, Romanian Orthodox Metropolis of the Americas), Church of Cyprus, Church of Greece, Orthodox Church of Albania, Polish Orthodox Church, Orthodox Church of the Czech Lands and Slovakia, Orthodox Church in America, Orthodox Church of Ukraine

The Celtic Orthodox Church is not recognized by any Orthodox Church as being Orthodox, nor are their beliefs Orthodox.

 

[yahwehsdaughter]

Thanks for taking the time to write all of that. I don’t have a problem with things outside of the Bible like most Protestants do. If I did, I wouldn’t be seeking to be Catholic.

I’m okay with intercession of the saints now. I found a verse for it in the Catechism .

956 The intercession of the saints. “Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. . . . They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus . . . . So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped.”

I’m still coming at things from a more Messianic Jewish perspective though, so I should explain why I believe what’s written in the Catechism, even though I didn’t agree with any vague interpretations of the Bible I formerly received.

When the Torah was given, God ordered a court system to be put in place where any matter He didn’t state directly in the written Law (the one He commanded Moses to write down) would be decided on by the Sanhedrin Council.

“According to the instructions that they give you, and according to the decision which they pronounce to you, you shall do. You shall not turn aside from the verdict that they declare to you, either to the right hand or to the left. The man who acts presumptuously by not obeying the priest who stands to minister there before the LORD your God, or the judge, that man shall die. So you shall purge the evil from Israel.” (Deuteronomy 17:11-12)

It was serious enough to obey their rulings that He issued a death penalty for those who do not obey the rulings. Jesus re-iterated the importance of obedience to the Laws of the council to His disciples:

“The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses’ seat, so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice.” (Matthew 23:2-3)

 

[yahwehsdaughter]

There is no Sanhedrin Council today, and hasn’t been one since about 400 AD. This is according to Wikipedia:

The last universally binding decision of the Great Sanhedrin appeared in 358 CE, when the Hebrew Calendar was abandoned. The Great Sanhedrin was finally disbanded in 425 CE after continued persecution by the Eastern Roman Empire.

But Jesus put something in place similar to the Sanhedrin Council before He left earth, when He said, “And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.” (Matthew 16:18)

That seems like a vague verse in Protestant circles, but looking at a lot of the epistles, there is a clear church structure going on that shows an authority somewhat similar to what was established back in Exodus when Jethro told Moses to appoint leaders over a smaller and greater number of people with himself(Moses) being the highest authority for decision making. St. Paul talks about how bishops and deacons are to be appointed.

In Hebrew, nasi= “bishop” and elder=“deacon”.

St.Peter was basically appointed “nasi” (president/ruler/prince) of the Church.

Internally, the nasi presided over the Sanhedrin, fixed the calendar together with the court by proclaiming the new month and intercalating the year, led public prayers for rain, and ordained scholars (the content and scope of this ordination being somewhat unclear). He kept in touch with the Jewish communities of the Diaspora, dispatching apostles to preach, teach, set up courts, and raise funds. His court possessed legislative powers, and so most takkanot (“enactments”) were attributed to the presiding nasi. The Sanhedrin

So, you see, I accept the writings in the Catechism, and therefore, the intercession of saints, because it was established by leaders of the Church who God and Christ put in place and gave a definite authority .

Hopefully all of that made sense… . Sometimes, I try to explain things and make everything worse, but basically, I’m okay with asking the saints for intercession now.

 

[po18guy]

I have two favorite Catholic conversion stories. One is Fr. Peter Sabbath (what ethnicity do you suppose???). Inspiring.

 

[yahwehsdaughter]

I didn’t expect the requirements to be so minimal. Thanks for the video .

 

[esieffe]

The Orthodox venerate the Saints as much if not more than we do from the books I have read. Being Catholic is right for me, but this suggestion sounds like a radical fringe Protestant ambush.

 

[yahwehsdaughter]

This makes my soul smile . Thank you. I can’t wait to watch!

 

[po18guy]

Parts of it will send a chill up your spine.

 

[dochawk]

It would appear that this Orthodox Church is not really orthodox.

“Vagante” is the magic word.

These happen when a renegade Catholic or Orthodox bishop consecrates a bishop without approval or agreement of the church, or a properly consecrated bishop goes rogue and heads out on his own and starts concentrating more bishops.

You get oddities such as this, which still use “orthodox”, “catholic”, or more often both in their names.

This group is no more “Orthodox” than the Liberal Catholic Church, or the laicized priest who purported to ordain his wife in the garage, are “Catholic.”

Edited to add: For future reference, these are all of the recognized Orthodox Churches:

Note, though, that some of these were previously not canonical, but eventually got recognized, and (roughly) achieved retroactive canonicity.

And on the other hand, the Orthodox Church in the Ukraine, from which the Russian Orthodox and all other slavic orthodox descend, is now known as “the Ukrainian Catholic Church”, while the Ukrainian church on your list was established in in its territory after the “Falle Synod of Lviv” (which purported to hold a synod ratifying its absorption by the ROC while priests, not bishops, voted under the guns of the Soviet NVKD, which had imprisoned all of the bishops and non collaborating priests). There is yet another Orthodox Church in the Ukraine recognized by the EP and not the MP . . .

That said, there are the canonical Orthodox and the splinter/national churches which are splintered only on national lines and will presumably some day either become canonical or be reabsorbed, and there are the renegade vagante such as this Celtic group,.

If you want to learn more about vagantes, and have a couple of days to read, search

vagante site:byzcath.org

There are a couple of people there that actually track vagante as a hobby.

 

[adamhovey1988]

Yeah, that’s not a mainstream position in Eastern Orthodoxy.

 

[Katherine438]

So many miraculous healings have been performed through people praying to Saints … I doubt Satan would care to heal anyone and have the justification for it given to the Catholic Church.

 

[dochawk]

Yeah, that’s not a mainstream position in Eastern Orthodoxy.

It’s far further out than that.

The question would be whether to call it “heterodox”, “heresy”, or both . . .

It’s just not a possible position for an orthodox Orthodox to hold

 

[Isaac14]

I’m surprised it hasn’t been mentioned that the entire Orthodox world (well, the byzantines, at least) last Sunday celebrated the Sunday of Orthodoxy, commemorating the 7th Ecumenical Council and the definitive restoration of the veneration of icons.

A few responses have noted this schismatic group uses the term “autocephalous” as if it justifies their false beliefs because they don’t report to anyone. All canonical Orthodox Churches consider themselves autocephalous - but what this term really means is that no one confirms their choice of primate and they consecrate their own chrism oil. Every canonical church is very much conscious of maintaining communion with the other canonical churches.

 

[CTBcin]

What do you guys think of this article? I thought Orthodox Christians also prayed to saints, so I was caught off guard when I found this article.

Yeah, this looks like some weird sect. I wouldn’t pay much attention to this. Their website format reminds me of the radical fundamentalist Protestant website “Jesus is Lord .com” that gets talked about on here sometimes.

 

[dochawk]

A few responses have noted this schismatic group uses the term “autocephalous” as if it justifies their false beliefs because they don’t report to anyone.

well, I suppose it does sound better than “Heterodox, Heretical and Schismatic Celtic Orthodox Church” . . .

:crazy_face:

 

[esieffe]

If you have ever read anything about Mt. Athos, people line up in monasteries to venerate first class relics of different Saints.

 

[po18guy]

Ah! I see now that the Celtic “Orthodox” are not Orthodox at all.

In fact, they are Un-orthodox. They cannot even settle on a name.

“The Celtic Orthodox Church is a small autocephalous church which derives from the church formerly known as the Catholic Apostolic Church (Catholicate of the West) and, before that, as the Ancient British Church and the Orthodox Church of the British Isles, which was constituted by the Syriac Orthodox Church to develop an Orthodox church in the Western (Celtic) tradition without recourse to its Oriental roots”.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I’ve gone to Syriac Orthodox liturgy, they ask for prayers of the Saints , so this sounds like it’s made up out of thin air

 

[JSRG]

What’s odd is that if you go to the main page of the linked site, you’ll discover it advocates praying the Rosary.