Orthodoxy and me

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Through a very long post he does come finally to the point, with this statement:
I hope also that my own example will encourage others – Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant – to look seriously into their hearts, and detach themselves from both idolizing the Church in the place of Christ – this is partly what led to the Scandal, and partly what led me to put myself in a position where the Scandal destroyed my Catholicism. And I hope my example helps people to deal swiftly with anger before it masters them.
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Mr. Dreher is in for a rude awakening if he thinks the Orthodox have never had any scandals–all bodies of believers have them, Christian and non-Christian alike. It’s a human problem of sin.

And the accusation that anyone is "idolizing the Church…or that this “partly led to the candal” (sic) is just plain false. People have idolized people of trust in the Church, that’s for certain, but that is not the same thing as idolizing the Church “in the place of Christ” and he knows it. The very Orthodox church he is going to ought to be offended by such a remark.
 
It’s a pretty good column. We all have the obligation to make a judgement about what is the true path. We may not agree with him, but at least he gave this serious thought before abandoning Catholicism. So many do not.
 
who cares what this guy thinks anyways. it’s ironic that the orthodox like catholics believe that their church is infallible and that it is through the church Christ’s mystical body) that salvation is possible. that’s a false dichotomy to have Christ operate outside his church.

as they say, extra ecclesiam nulla salus
 
Digitonomy said:
It’s a pretty good column. We all have the obligation to make a judgement about what is the true path. We may not agree with him, but at least he gave this serious thought before abandoning Catholicism. So many do not.
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You’re quite wrong.
 
Digitonomy said:
It’s a pretty good column. We all have the obligation to make a judgement about what is the true path. We may not agree with him, but at least he gave this serious thought before abandoning Catholicism. So many do not.
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Mr Dreher is joinng his third different relegion in 15 years. I am sure that when he tires of orthodox he will slime them as he leaves them just as he did his other faiths. I would have a had a lot more respect for him if he had given some spiritual reasons for his change. Instead he just hacked away at our Church repeating the usual myths about vaseline on Altars and Uncareing Popes.
 
estesbob said:
Mr Dreher is joinng his third different relegion in 15 years. I am sure that when he tires of orthodox he will slime them as he leaves them just as he did his other faiths. I would have a had a lot more respect for him if he had given some spiritual reasons for his change. Instead he just hacked away at our Church repeating the usual myths about vaseline on Altars and Uncareing Popes.
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With all due respect, Rome, the hierarchy, clerics and vowed religious who perpetrated, covered up and continue to rationalize the scandal - as well the heterodoxy so common among the clergy and vowed religous without any proper oversight by the Bishops - is, IMHO, the root cause for his schism. “Slimed on the way out”? Maybe, but our church leaders certainly handed him the slime to smear, if it is a sliming and not just a very unpleasant reminder of the truth.

Arrogance on the part of so many Bishops and clerics, heterodoxy among the clergy, banal litugies and widespread scandal - all of which are true - most certainly can be major obstacles in anyone’s search for the Truth. The fault is with us and our leaders - not him.

You are right he will not find perfection in Orthodoxy (despite the claims of some Orthodox)- but he will find the sacraments. That Orthodoxy does not have the fullness of truth, I do not dispute, but that he left catholcism for Orthodoxy can pretty clearly be laid at the feet of all of us - and especially Rome, the Bishops and clergy.
 
johnnykins said:
With all due respect, Rome, the hierarchy, clerics and vowed religious who perpetrated, covered up and continue to rationalize the scandal - as well the heterodoxy so common among the clergy and vowed religous without any proper oversight by the Bishops - is, IMHO, the root cause for his schism. “Slimed on the way out”? Maybe, but our church leaders certainly handed him the slime to smear, if it is a sliming and not just a very unpleasant reminder of the truth.

Arrogance on the part of so many Bishops and clerics, heterodoxy among the clergy, banal litugies and widespread scandal - all of which are true - most certainly can be major obstacles in anyone’s search for the Truth. The fault is with us and our leaders - not him.

You are right he will not find perfection in Orthodoxy (despite the claims of some Orthodox)- but he will find the sacraments. That Orthodoxy does not have the fullness of truth, I do not dispute, but that he left catholcism for Orthodoxy can pretty clearly be laid at the feet of all of us - and especially Rome, the Bishops and clergy.
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I am as angry about the the problems you mentioned as anyone is-having spoke to my Pastor and my Bishop about them on numerous occassions. But displeasure with way MAN runs Gods Church is not an excuse to abandon Gods Church. MR. Dreher should have either stayed in the Church and helped us clean up the Church OR wentquietely into the night. Instead he pooped all over the rest of us on his way out.
 
estesbob said:
I am as angry about the the problems you mentioned as anyone is-having spoke to my Pastor and my Bishop about them on numerous occassions. But displeasure with way MAN runs Gods Church is not an excuse to abandon Gods Church. MR. Dreher should have either stayed in the Church and helped us clean up the Church OR wentquietely into the night. Instead he pooped all over the rest of us on his way out.
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I still aver the problem is less with Mr Dreher than with our own inadequate, unbelieving, arrogant, ephebophile, enabling, self-righteous hierarchy, clergy and vowed religious whose actions and inactions - sins if you will - drove him out.
 
johnnykins said:
I still aver the problem is less with Mr Dreher than with our own inadequate, unbelieving, arrogant, ephebophile, enabling, self-righteous hierarchy, clergy and vowed religious whose actions and inactions - sins if you will - drove him out.
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Sorry, but I don’t buy that line of thinking here. He made it clear that he thinks all churches, to put it in his own words are “idolizing the Church in the place of Christ.” IOW, he has convinced himself that he is above us all, but will condescend to give the Orthodox a try. Blech! They can have him, if they really want him.
 
johnnykins said:
I still aver the problem is less with Mr Dreher than with our own inadequate, unbelieving, arrogant, ephebophile, enabling, self-righteous hierarchy, clergy and vowed religious whose actions and inactions - sins if you will - drove him out.
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I do have to agree with this, although I partly disagree.

Let me start first on how I agree:
Yes, the self righteous people of the Church did drive him, as you can see with many others. It is our job to be charitable in the Church, as to bring people in, from out of the darkness. There are of course bad people and bad clergy in the Church, and this could have been what drove him out.

Disagree:
However, this does not surpass, the good people and the good clergy who shine like lights in the Church. Mainly, I do not think that because of sinful people, he should have left. Paul has warned us of leaving the faith, just because things get hard. If he was dedicated to God, he would not focus on what sinful men were doing, and would not let their actions influence his opinions.

This all reminds me of St. Francis of Asissi. He, unlike Luther, did not leave the Church, inspite of scandals. He instead found out what he could do about it, to help lessen the problem.

We should not let what men are doing, influence out beliefs, for if we did, no one would be Christian at all. We believe in a God that NEVER changes. Man may change, but God never does. The Dr. was wrong because he let what men were doing, influence his faith, but if he wants to leave, I hope he finds what he is looking for.🙂
 
Della said:
Sorry, but I don’t buy that line of thinking here. He made it clear that he thinks all churches, to put it in his own words are “idolizing the Church in the place of Christ.” IOW, he has convinced himself that he is above us all, but will condescend to give the Orthodox a try. Blech! They can have him, if they really want him.
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Which seems to be his modus operendi. He coverts in 1992, By 1996 he is telling the rest of what to do and in 2006 he quits. One can not even begn to grasp the richness (and dare i say TRUTH) of our church in 14 years
 
I’m wondering why he didn’t just join a Byzantine Catholic Church. He could have stayed united with Rome but very distant from the “problematic” leaders.
 
Ham1 said:
I’m wondering why he didn’t just join a Byzantine Catholic Church. He could have stayed united with Rome but very distant from the “problematic” leaders.
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People are only “problematic” (usaully) when we don’t do anything about it. The Roman Catholic Church is not seperate from the Byzantine Catholic Church. One problem in a Church, is a problem in all the Churches, because they are united.
 
Image_of_God said:
People are only “problematic” (usaully) when we don’t do anything about it. The Roman Catholic Church is not seperate from the Byzantine Catholic Church. One problem in a Church, is a problem in all the Churches, because they are united.
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I understand, but Dreher seems to have no complaint with the Pope but rather the bishops under him. Since the eastern Churches are independent but still obedient to the Pope they maintain a certain distance from the Bishop’s in whom Dreher seems to have lost all confidence.
 
estesbob said:
I am as angry about the the problems you mentioned as anyone is-having spoke to my Pastor and my Bishop about them on numerous occassions. But displeasure with way MAN runs Gods Church is not an excuse to abandon Gods Church. MR. Dreher should have either stayed in the Church and helped us clean up the Church OR wentquietely into the night. Instead he pooped all over the rest of us on his way out.
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Its a fair excuse when these same men are the ones we are to believe have been divinely inspired by God to proclaim truth. When they fall and cover up in the horrendous manner in which they did, one wonders if God shared anything divine with them. I have my concerns as well sometimes.
 
estesbob said:
Mr Dreher is joinng his third different relegion in 15 years. I am sure that when he tires of orthodox he will slime them as he leaves them just as he did his other faiths. I would have a had a lot more respect for him if he had given some spiritual reasons for his change. Instead he just hacked away at our Church repeating the usual myths about vaseline on Altars and Uncareing Popes.
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The question that I would ask Dreher is, “Why would you leave Jesus now just when He needs you most?” Seems to me that he’s leaving the Church for misguided and selfish reasons. It’s like he has this, “I’m giving up” attitude. I think that the sex abuse scandal should be a call to Catholics that the Church needs us!
There’s more issues between ROC and the RCC besides Infallibility. Regarding infallibility he says, “And if that falls, it all falls.” He needs to realize that the reason the Church is where it is at, is because of Catholic unorthodoxy. I can understand how he feels in terms of irreverent liturgy and being in a modernist parish. It reminds me of what our Lord says, “To him whom much is given, more is required.” Many people just simply take their faith for granted. He should have went and joined another parish.
 
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