It appears to me that humility is truth. I know not whether I am humble, but I know that I see the truth in all things.
Many Roman Catholic apologists such as yourself proclaim this as fact. But there is zero evidence that the papacy of the first millenium was in any way similar to the modern day papacy which proclaims supremacy and infallibility–a doctrine that was innovated by post schism Rome, championed by the ultra-montanists and officially defined by Pius IX in 1870.
“In so far as this is what has been commanded you by the Holy Apostles,-stand aright, hold firmly to the traditions which you have received, both written and by word of mouth, that you be not deprived of your firmness if you become led away by the delusions of the lawless. May God, Who is All-powerful, make them also to know their delusion; and having delivered us from them as from evil tares, may He gather us into His granaries like pure and useful wheat, in Jesus Christ our Lord, to Whom belongs all glory, honor, and worship, with His Father Who is without beginning, and His All-holy and Good and Life- giving Spirit, now and ever and unto the ages of ages. Amen.”
What you might, also, want to take a look at is that the power of Orders, which exists to bring the redemptive virtue to souls, is a physical spiritual participation of the spiritual power of Christ the Priest. For if “the instrument must be proportioned to the agent” there will have to be a proportion, a conformity between those who act as the habitual instruments of redemption and Christ, who is its source. Hence the power of Order. Like every sacramental character, the power of Order is a physical spiritual power and hence indelible. It can persist, and even be transmitted, in schism and heresy. The power of jurisdiction, which exists for the external preaching of Christian truth, speculative and practical, is a moral authority, mission and power; it is kept on the line of truth and preserved from error by providential aid involving various prophetic graces ranging from oral and scriptural inspiration, the privilege of the Apostles, to the graces of assistance given to their successors. It is lost as soon as the subject leaves the Church. Apostolic authority, but not the power of Orders, was lost to Judas. No regular jurisdiction can of itself continue under conditions of heresy and schism.
Many Eastern Orthodox apologists such as yourself proclaim this as fact. But there is pleny of evidence that the papacy existed in teh first millenium and that the Pope held authority simialr to what he holds today. Eastern orthodox ecclesiology was innovated in the East due to Powere stuggles with in the Roman Empire.Many Roman Catholic apologists such as yourself proclaim this as fact. But there is zero evidence that the papacy of the first millenium was in any way similar to the modern day papacy which proclaims supremacy and infallibility–a doctrine that was innovated by post schism Rome, championed by the ultra-montanists and officially defined by Pius IX in 1870.
Oh no. Not you again.
So then you are saying that Rome retains Her orders but has lost Her Apostolic authority?
Could you please cite that so we don’t think you are taking it out of context.
Our Blessed Mark speaks the words of our Blessed Apostle Paul and our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ in the Parable of the Wheat and Tares. He cries out to our Lord and our God to keep us on that ‘narrow’ path. It is a very noble ‘spiritual good’ but it can be used to sew distinction. This very noble ‘spiritual good’ can be used to claim particular status among the creatures of God and so we should be very careful in how we interpret this humble cry to God for perseverance. We must be careful how we add or take away from that deposit of faith some understand to be the consensual teachings pasted down to us from the Apostles. We must be careful to what teachers we allow influence our understanding of this prayer.
I always here this doctrinal innovation thing from the Orthodox however they never claim what it is.
For starters: purgatory, IC, and papal infallibility/supremacy–all post-schism Latin innovations.
By the prayers of St. Thomas Aquinas, O Christ our God, and all Thy Holy Fathers, Doctors, Teachers and Theologians, preserve Thy Church in orthodox confession and lead many into a knowledge of the Truth, unto the ages!
Amen.
Pope St. Innocent I (408 AD)Many Roman Catholic apologists such as yourself proclaim this as fact. But there is zero evidence that the papacy of the first millenium was in any way similar to the modern day papacy which proclaims supremacy and infallibility–a doctrine that was innovated by post schism Rome, championed by the ultra-montanists and officially defined by Pius IX in 1870.
Brother this is not in the spirit of charity in which we are called to dialogue with our brothers. This pride. Let us put this kind of ‘tit-for-tat’ one-up-manship away.
tell me. is he talking about himself here? or is there other popes out there i dont know about? how many popes did we have then? was there other popes in his time? just curious.
My dear brother in Christ. I think it has been pointed out to you that the dueling battle of Church Father quotes is pointless. I have a ton of em! We need only to reflect on the example set by the Church of the first millenium. And it surely had no supreme infallible universal pontiff of Rome as we today see in the Latin Catholic Church.
Brother, I liked the prayer. I thought I could apply it to our Church.
I believe that the Eastern Orthodox have the same belief about Purgatory as the Catholics however you do not have a name for it, and you doctrines about it are less refined however you are arguing about semantics. Don’t claim that your belief about praying for the dead and Theosis is not the same as our belief about Purgatory.
I believe the Orthodox have a different understanding of what the Original Sin means, however again the belief is basically the same. Through Adam and Eve’s Original Sin, sin was able to enter the world in the form of death and sinfulness. The Immaculate Conception merely means that the Blessed Theotokos was conceived without the Original Sin, so she did not have a sinful nature. I believe that you Orthodox believe that she was free of sin as well. Sinlessness of St. Mary
The Church has always believe that it can teach Infallibly, and that the Bishop of Rome had supremacy over the other Bishops. I would advise you read what Papal Infallibility is and isn’t. Papal Infallibility
That is what I was attempting on doing. Showing quotes that show the Bishop of Rome as the leader of the Church from pre 1054We need only to reflect on the example set by the Church of the first millenium. And it surely had no supreme infallible universal pontiff of Rome as we today see in the Latin Catholic Church.