Orthodoxy to Catholicism

[SophiaS]

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of exploring becoming Catholic. I was originally Anglican but became Orthodox shortly after I turned 18. A raft of problems led to me leaving the church in my early 20s but I am now looking to come back. While a lot of Orthodoxy still speaks to me I find myself dissatisfied with the nationalism and politics rife within the church as well as the open hatred towards LGBT people in Russia.

I am at a point in my life where I am very aware of my need for God and the limitations of my own insights into the world. I am prepared, as an LGBT person to submit my life to God and the Church in order to be within it. This is not easy and scares me but I want and need to be part of a sacramental church again.

So I have got as far as talking to a priest and explaining my story. Hopefully I will begin RCIA soon. I already have a good understanding of theology and praxis but feel that having been away a number of years this would be of benefit. The priest I spoke to wasn’t entirely sure of HOW I would join though. My understanding is that if I have been confirmed into the Orthodox church I do not need to be reconfirmed as Orthodox sacraments are valid but do need to make a statement of faith. Is this right?

 

[RyanBlack]

Hi everyone,

My understanding is that if I have been confirmed into the Orthodox church I do not need to be reconfirmed as Orthodox sacraments are valid but do need to make a statement of faith. Is this right?

That is correct.

 

[akemner]

Your chrismation as Orthodox is valid, and coming into the Catholic Church should not be regarded as a conversion in the same way as when you became Orthodox. Your reception should include confession (for the time away from the Church), and that should be it. The priest should contact a canon lawyer, two actually (Latin and Eastern). Since you were Orthodox, you would become Catholic in the corresponding Catholic Church (if you were ROCOR, you would be Russian Catholic, if you were Antiochian, Melkite and so on). If Orthodoxy still speaks to, especially through the spiritual and liturgical life, then why not seek a Greek Catholic parish? Hopefully one is geographically feasible for you.

God be with you in your journey.

In Christ,
Adam

 

[thequietsinger]

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of exploring becoming Catholic. I was originally Anglican but became Orthodox shortly after I turned 18. A raft of problems led to me leaving the church in my early 20s but I am now looking to come back. While a lot of Orthodoxy still speaks to me I find myself dissatisfied with the nationalism and politics rife within the church as well as the open hatred towards LGBT people in Russia.

I am at a point in my life where I am very aware of my need for God and the limitations of my own insights into the world. I am prepared, as an LGBT person to submit my life to God and the Church in order to be within it. This is not easy and scares me but I want and need to be part of a sacramental church again.

So I have got as far as talking to a priest and explaining my story. Hopefully I will begin RCIA soon. I already have a good understanding of theology and praxis but feel that having been away a number of years this would be of benefit. The priest I spoke to wasn’t entirely sure of HOW I would join though. My understanding is that if I have been confirmed into the Orthodox church I do not need to be reconfirmed as Orthodox sacraments are valid but do need to make a statement of faith. Is this right?

I cannot answer for the LGBT part of your post. However, I can answer the last part. You do not need to be reconfirmed in the Catholic Church. Another thing I’d like to tell you is that RCIA is not required for an Orthodox to become Catholic. The only thing you’ll need to do is make an appointment with a Priest, where you can then make your profession of faith, go to confession, and then be brought into the Church.
Good luck, and God bless!!

 

[MichaelinMD]

Your chrismation as Orthodox is valid, and coming into the Catholic Church should not be regarded as a conversion in the same way as when you became Orthodox. Your reception should include confession (for the time away from the Church), and that should be it. The priest should contact a canon lawyer, two actually (Latin and Eastern). Since you were Orthodox, you would become Catholic in the corresponding Catholic Church (if you were ROCOR, you would be Russian Catholic, if you were Antiochian, Melkite and so on). If Orthodoxy still speaks to, especially through the spiritual and liturgical life, then why not seek a Greek Catholic parish? Hopefully one is geographically feasible for you.

God be with you in your journey.

In Christ,
Adam

I’ve always found this a little confusing. Wouldn’t her original Anglican baptism take precedence over her Orthodox chrismation as far as entering the Catholic Church is concerned? If that were the case, she would be assigned canonically to the Roman Catholic Church, no? Where are Vico and Aramis when you need them?

In Christ,
MinM

 

[twf]

Your chrismation as Orthodox is valid, and coming into the Catholic Church should not be regarded as a conversion in the same way as when you became Orthodox. Your reception should include confession (for the time away from the Church), and that should be it. The priest should contact a canon lawyer, two actually (Latin and Eastern). Since you were Orthodox, you would become Catholic in the corresponding Catholic Church (if you were ROCOR, you would be Russian Catholic, if you were Antiochian, Melkite and so on). If Orthodoxy still speaks to, especially through the spiritual and liturgical life, then why not seek a Greek Catholic parish? Hopefully one is geographically feasible for you.

God be with you in your journey.

In Christ,
Adam

Actually, as she was originally Anglican, the Church may look at her original baptism (Anglican) which means she would be enrolled in the Latin Church. Of course she always has the option of requesting enrollment in an Eastern Church. By virtue of her Anglican baptism she also has the option of being enrolled in the Anglican Ordinariate. Definitely should consult a canon lawyer, but without a doubt, regardless of which jurisdiction she is received into, she need only receive the sacrament of penance and make a profession of faith.

 

[MichaelinMD]

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of exploring becoming Catholic. I was originally Anglican but became Orthodox shortly after I turned 18. A raft of problems led to me leaving the church in my early 20s but I am now looking to come back. While a lot of Orthodoxy still speaks to me I find myself dissatisfied with the nationalism and politics rife within the church as well as the open hatred towards LGBT people in Russia.

I am at a point in my life where I am very aware of my need for God and the limitations of my own insights into the world. I am prepared, as an LGBT person to submit my life to God and the Church in order to be within it. This is not easy and scares me but I want and need to be part of a sacramental church again.

So I have got as far as talking to a priest and explaining my story. Hopefully I will begin RCIA soon. I already have a good understanding of theology and praxis but feel that having been away a number of years this would be of benefit. The priest I spoke to wasn’t entirely sure of HOW I would join though. My understanding is that if I have been confirmed into the Orthodox church I do not need to be reconfirmed as Orthodox sacraments are valid but do need to make a statement of faith. Is this right?

I wish you all the best on coming into the Catholic Church! However, don’t expect it to be a bed of roses . Well, I guess it could be that, but remember…roses have thorns! By which I mean, there’s plenty of politics and intolerance amongst Catholics. We’re not much different from anybody else, unfortunately, in that respect. And, remember, unless you’re in Russia, you needn’t worry about Russian hatred towards gay people. Heck, even in the Orthodox Church the principle of “love the sinner, hate the sin” applies. Sometimes, people, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or whatever, forget that and identify the sin with the sinner.

In Christ,
MinM

 

[Otche_Nash]

I wish you all the best on coming into the Catholic Church! However, don’t expect it to be a bed of roses . Well, I guess it could be that, but remember…roses have thorns! By which I mean, there’s plenty of politics and intolerance amongst Catholics. We’re not much different from anybody else, unfortunately, in that respect. And, remember, unless you’re in Russia, you needn’t worry about Russian hatred towards gay people. Heck, even in the Orthodox Church the principle of “love the sinner, hate the sin” applies. Sometimes, people, whether Catholic, Orthodox, or whatever, forget that and identify the sin with the sinner.

In Christ,
MinM

Well said. Politics and hatred are part of the human condition, certainly no less of those things in Latin or Eastern rite Catholicism…i was a former Orthodox. To the OP, the real difference is the teaching office of the Catholic Church, the magisterium. Heterodox priests, theologians and catechists come and go, but the Catholic always access to the clear dogmatic truths found in 21 councils and myriad of papal bulls, encyclicals, etc. The Orthodox, on the other hand, are still struggling to define “infallibility”. Congratulations and best wishes with your conversion process.

 

[Vico]

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of exploring becoming Catholic. I was originally Anglican but became Orthodox shortly after I turned 18. A raft of problems led to me leaving the church in my early 20s but I am now looking to come back. While a lot of Orthodoxy still speaks to me I find myself dissatisfied with the nationalism and politics rife within the church as well as the open hatred towards LGBT people in Russia.

I am at a point in my life where I am very aware of my need for God and the limitations of my own insights into the world. I am prepared, as an LGBT person to submit my life to God and the Church in order to be within it. This is not easy and scares me but I want and need to be part of a sacramental church again.

So I have got as far as talking to a priest and explaining my story. Hopefully I will begin RCIA soon. I already have a good understanding of theology and praxis but feel that having been away a number of years this would be of benefit. The priest I spoke to wasn’t entirely sure of HOW I would join though. My understanding is that if I have been confirmed into the Orthodox church I do not need to be reconfirmed as Orthodox sacraments are valid but do need to make a statement of faith. Is this right?

Being baptised in the Anglican Church you will be enrolled in the Latin Catholic church, upon making a profession of faith when coming into full communion. If you wanted to transfer to another eastern Catholic church sui iuris, it would require approval of the Apostolic See. This is from the canon law. It is in order to preserve the traditions and disciplines, which are not based upon where one attends, but upon the original Church of the parents, and into which it is is the norm to baptize their children.

 

[twf]

Being baptised in the Anglican Church you will be enrolled in the Latin Catholic church, upon making a profession of faith when coming into full communion. If you wanted to transfer to another eastern Catholic church sui iuris, it would require approval of the Apostolic See. This is from the canon law. It is in order to preserve the traditions and disciplines, which are not based upon where one attends, but upon the original Church of the parents, and into which it is is the norm to baptize their children.

As I mentioned earlier, she would also have the option of enrolling in the Anglican Ordinariate (assuming she is in North America, England/Wales, or Australia). Still the Latin Church, but quite distinct from simply belonging to the local Latin diocese.

 

[babochka]

Being baptised in the Anglican Church you will be enrolled in the Latin Catholic church, upon making a profession of faith when coming into full communion. If you wanted to transfer to another eastern Catholic church sui iuris, it would require approval of the Apostolic See. This is from the canon law. It is in order to preserve the traditions and disciplines, which are not based upon where one attends, but upon the original Church of the parents, and into which it is is the norm to baptize their children.

Please keep in mind that in many places, approval of the Apostolic See is formally assumed and the process is not complicated at all. I know of a Latin-Byzantine transfer that was accomplished in three weeks. While you might run into obstacles, it is certainly not a difficult process where I live.

 

[Vico]

As I mentioned earlier, she would also have the option of enrolling in the Anglican Ordinariate (assuming she is in North America, England/Wales, or Australia). Still the Latin Church, but quite distinct from simply belonging to the local Latin diocese.

It is definitely distinct from the local Latin diocese. From Anglicanorum Coetibus:I §3 Each Ordinariate possesses public juridic personality by the law itself (ipso iure); it is juridically comparable to a diocese.
**
I §4** The Ordinariate is composed of lay faithful, clerics and members of Institutes of Consecrated Life and Societies of Apostolic Life, originally belonging to the Anglican Communion and now in full communion with the Catholic Church, or those who receive the Sacraments of Initiation within the jurisdiction of the Ordinariate.
…
**IV. **A Personal Ordinariate is entrusted to the pastoral care of an Ordinary appointed by the Roman Pontiff.

 

[SophiaS]

I’m in New Zealand if that’s of any help to anyone

I did investigate IF there were any local Eastern Catholic churches before I approached the local RC but there don’t appear to be any in a more than once every few months capacity so it would probably make pastoral sense to be enrolled and attend at my local cathederal which is about 10 mins walk away from me. The priest I spoke to was going to do some asking around on my behalf so I will keep you all informed for future reference.

 

[SyroMalankara]

Hi everyone,

I am in the process of exploring becoming Catholic. I was originally Anglican but became Orthodox shortly after I turned 18. A raft of problems led to me leaving the church in my early 20s but I am now looking to come back. While a lot of Orthodoxy still speaks to me I find myself dissatisfied with the nationalism and politics rife within the church as well as the open hatred towards LGBT people in Russia.

I am at a point in my life where I am very aware of my need for God and the limitations of my own insights into the world. I am prepared, as an LGBT person to submit my life to God and the Church in order to be within it. This is not easy and scares me but I want and need to be part of a sacramental church again.

Let me ask, if you are in NZ, why are you concerned to the point of it affecting your faith with how Russians behave toward homosexuals? You will find self-professed Catholics in many places in the world who are against homosexuality - some to the point to breaking the Church’s teachings on charity and kindness, will this drive you out of the Church?

Catholics are not immune to nationalism and politics, if this is your reason for leaving any church, I would urge you to reconsider both your purpose of being in a church and the church’s own position and teachings.

 

[SophiaS]

Because at least Catholicism the priests do not encourage the faithful to spit on and beat people for it. It was Pope Francis who, while restating the Church’s position on sexual morality, actively reminded people to be loving and merciful towards people who wished to live Christian lives even when LGBT that first made me think I might be wanted again after years of wanting to belong but feeling profoundly hated and rejected.

I am well aware that people all over the world misunderstand and hate people for a way of being which they cannot help and that this misunderstanding and hatred has caused immense division, hurt and pain on both sides of the divide. I am also aware of what the church requires of me and I am hopeful that with prayer and grace I will be able to live my life according to that.

You are right that I might need to reconsider my position on being in a church but at this point it’s more whether I return to Orthodoxy or become a Catholic. I want to earnestly seek God and live authentically. That is my fundamental reason.

 

[Vico]

Please keep in mind that in many places, approval of the Apostolic See is formally assumed and the process is not complicated at all. I know of a Latin-Byzantine transfer that was accomplished in three weeks. While you might run into obstacles, it is certainly not a difficult process where I live.

There was a rescript in 1992 so that the Latin canons and eastern canons were in agreement that if the two bishops where there jurisdictions overlapped agreed, a transfer could be granted without submitting to the Congregation for Oriental Churches. That means that if the bishops are in agreement then the approval of the Apostolic See is present.

 

[Angel_Gabriel]

Actually, as she was originally Anglican, the Church may look at her original baptism (Anglican) which means she would be enrolled in the Latin Church. Of course she always has the option of requesting enrollment in an Eastern Church. By virtue of her Anglican baptism she also has the option of being enrolled in the Anglican Ordinariate. Definitely should consult a canon lawyer, but without a doubt, regardless of which jurisdiction she is received into, she need only receive the sacrament of penance and make a profession of faith.

I’m not meaning to derail the thread but is this canon law? I’m curious as to why the only way to be an Orthodox Christian (according to the Catholic Church) is to be baptized into it…

 

[Vico]

I’m not meaning to derail the thread but is this canon law? I’m curious as to why the only way to be an Orthodox Christian (according to the Catholic Church) is to be baptized into it…

Yes. CCEO Canon 35 Baptized non-Catholics coming into full communion with the Catholic Church should retain and practice their own rite everywhere in the world and should observe it as much as humanly possible. Thus, they are to be enrolled in the Church sui iuris of the same rite with due regard for the right of approaching the Apostolic See in special cases of persons, communities or regions.
In this case the ascribed Church is Latin. One must petition to transfer, regardles of where received, if a different rite is desired. (See: Comparative Sacramental Discipline in the CCEO and CIC, Canon Law Society of America, p. 255) When the CCEO code was written it was proposed to add a clause for free selection of the Church sui iuris, but this proposal was not added. On p. 17 of the referenced book is,“The general principle is that membership in a Church or ecclesial community is determined by the membership of the minister of baptism. - footnote 35 - For example, an infant Baptized by an Anglican minister becomes Anglican. An infant Baptized by an Orthodox presbyter becomes Orthodox. An infant Baptized by a Catholic presbyter becomes Catholic. However, this basic principle is not followed in determining membership in a Church sui iuris. If a child of Ukrainian Catholic parents is Baptized in a Latin ceremony by a Latin presbyter, the child becomes a Ukrainian Catholic in virtue of baptism and the canonical codes of ascription. See Roman Replies and CLSA Advisory Opinions 2001 (Washington: CLSA, 2001) 54. Also see the discussion following in special Issues Relating to Baptism.”
Comparative Sacramental Discipline in the CCEO and CIC,
edited by Francis J. Marini, 272 pp.,
ISBN 1-932208-01-01

 

[Alveus_Lacuna]

The Orthodox, on the other hand, are still struggling to define “infallibility”.

Thanks for that little jab.

Actually, the concept of infallibility as posited in many Catholic and Protestant circles is foreign to Orthodoxy. You can keep it.

And since you’ve got your infallibility so neatly hammered down, would you can to tell me how many dogmatically binding ex-cathedra statements that the Papal office had issued? Your theologians can’t even agree on that. So please keep your completely unearned triumphalism to yourself. Pax.

 

[Seraphignatius]

Thanks for that little jab.

Actually, the concept of infallibility as posited in many Catholic and Protestant circles is foreign to Orthodoxy. You can keep it.

And since you’ve got your infallibility so neatly hammered down, would you can to tell me how many dogmatically binding ex-cathedra statements that the Papal office had issued? Your theologians can’t even agree on that. So please keep your completely unearned triumphalism to yourself. Pax.

In case you are genuinely wondering:
legionofmarytidewater.com/faith/ECUM20.HTM#6

9. Therefore, faithfully adhering to the tradition received from the beginning of the Christian faith, to the glory of God our savior, for the exaltation of the Catholic religion and for the salvation of the Christian people, with the approval of the Sacred Council, we teach and define as a divinely revealed dogma that when the Roman Pontiff speaks EX CATHEDRA, that is, when, in the exercise of his office as shepherd and teacher of all Christians, in virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine concerning faith or morals to be held by the whole Church, he possesses, by the divine assistance promised to him in blessed Peter, that infallibility which the divine Redeemer willed his Church to enjoy in defining doctrine concerning faith or morals. Therefore, such definitions of the Roman Pontiff are of themselves, and not by the consent of the Church, irreformable.
So then, should anyone, which God forbid, have the temerity to reject this definition of ours: let him be anathema.

Whenever the listed conditions are met he has spoken infallibly. I imagine it would be very difficult to keep track of how often this has happened throughout history; it has been approx. 2k years since Christ appointed Peter the teacher of the world, and we haven’t even got all the records to go through.