Osama Bin Laden Is Dead

[Stjudeprayforus]

At the same time, Divine Mercy Sunday is a day of mercy and forgiveness, so it is a joyful day. So too is it joyful that JPII was beatified on Sunday. So many emotions converging on the same day. I am unsettled and I seek peace. I think prayer and reflection is the answer and the way.

I agree… how sweet the day started. Then ended with remembering the pain and sadness in the world caused by that man.

 

[Holly3278]

I certainly cannot celebrate the death of anyone but I will say that I believe we are better off without him being alive.

That said, I was on Facebook earlier and accidentally misspelled Obama’s name. Ooops.

 

[hxcCatholic413]

Ding dong, the witch is dead

whose the witch?

 

[hxcCatholic413]

There’s probably more than one Republican voter on the SEAL team. Time will tell if it didn’t go down the way it’s being reported.

so Republican voter = what?

no one will ever know what happened…remember when the Government covered up the how Sgt. Tillman died.

 

[masterjedi747]

“Faced with the death of a man, a Christian never rejoices, but reflects on the serious responsibility of everyone before God and man, and hopes and pledges that every event is not an opportunity for a further growth of hatred, but of peace.” - Vatican statement on the death of Osama bin Laden

After numerous Facebook discussions regarding this quote with my friends, I would like to present here a brief defense of all those who have been rejoicing (in the manner that I will describe below) at the news of Osama Bin Laden’s death. Put simply, the heart of the debate rests upon a significant distinction: rejoicing in justice, and in the fact that an enemy has fallen to no longer threaten you [this is appropriate and good] vs. rejoicing in the enemy’s demise, and taking delight in the fact that an evil that has befallen your enemy [this is always inappropriate, and this is precisely what the Vatican statement is speaking to]. But first, a few very important - and very relevant - quotes:

“The prophetess Miriam, Aaron’s sister, took a tambourine in her hand, while all the women went out after her with tambourines, dancing; and she led them in the refrain: Sing to the LORD, for he is gloriously triumphant; horse and chariot he has cast into the sea.” - Exodus 15

“And immediately at break of day, they hung up the head of Holofernes upon the walls, and every man took his arms, and they sent out with a great noise and shouting.” - Judith 14:7

“Therefore if a man be dangerous and infectious to the community… it is praiseworthy and advantageous that he be killed in order to safeguard the common good.” - Thomas Aquinas Summa Q.64 A.2

I cannot emphasize enough that when I say “hooray, bin Laden is dead”, what I mean by that amounts to nothing more and nothing less than “hooray, the US just struck a serious blow against a terrorist organization” (“hooray, justice”), RATHER than “I hated the man” or “I hope he’s in hell” or “I wish he could have suffered more” or anything remotely that uncharitable. My desire for justice has been fulfilled - and as Providence would have it, by the means his death. His death is certainly not the only means of achieving justice that I would have accepted, mind you - in fact it is probably not even the means that I would have deliberately chosen - but it is the means that Divine Providence has selected, and therefore I can see absolutely no problem with rejoicing in this victory over our enemy while simultaneously praying for mercy upon his soul. I, a sinner, would not be ashamed to greet Bin Laden in Heaven if (however unlikely) he somehow received the grace to recognize his error/ignorance and repent of his sins at the moment of his death, as the bullet traveled the distance between the barrel and his brain.

With all due caution against taking any undue/uncharitable pleasure in the fact that a man has been killed, I believe it is no less a mistake to attack those who are taking due pleasure in the joy that an evil has been removed - which is what it seems to me we’re dealing with here. Throughout this discussion, I have constantly been reminded of the following examples: When God crushes the Egyptians, the Israelites rejoice. When the Wicked Witch of the West is killed, the people rejoice. When the alien invaders from Independence Day are destroyed, the world rejoices. When Emperor Palpatine is killed, the galaxy erupts in celebration. Fiction though these examples be (with the exception of the first) I’ve never known anyone to suggest that there is anything even remotely wrong with these celebrations, or that they were anything less than just, good, and desirable in themselves. The same, in my opinion, should therefore be said of this situation.

There remains, of course, a legitimate concern that we should always maintain charitable and free from hatred, and never cease to pray for the salvation of our enemies. But that need not - and should not - prevent us from recognizing that the death of an evil man can indeed be something “praiseworthy” (as Aquinas says) and therefore that a pubic celebration of this event can remain both fitting and desirable. If we are rejoicing in the removal of a great evil (as the Israelites did) and doing so in a manner divorced from true hatred of our enemy, then I see no conflict between my desire to publicly celebrate this victory against al-Qaeda while simultaneously praying that God may look with greatest mercy upon the soul of our enemy. In my opinion this is absolutely a valid occasion for celebration (again, not rejoicing in the death of Bin Laden per se, but rejoicing in the justice that Providence has been achieved by means of his death). Honestly, if I had been given the opportunity last night to sing the Star Spangled Banner and join in chanting “USA” at Ground Zero - or in front of the White House - I would have absolutely joined in. And then I would have liked to pray a public rosary that the greatest mercy was offered to (and accepted by) Osama Bin Laden at the moment of his death. “O my Jesus, forgive us ours sins; save us from the fires of Hell; lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of thy mercy.”

 

[hxcCatholic413]

I have on many occasions. Just as I continue to pray for the conversions to Jesus’ Church of all Muslims, all unbelievers, all of our Christian brothers and sisters.

HAHA all Muslims??? so much for religious tolerance…(INSERT stereotypical Texas comment)

 

[nathaniel1976]

when the egyptians were drowned in the parting of the red sea God did not allow celebration as they were His children too. obl was a child of God but he was misguided and went down another path. not time for celebration; we need to pray for our service men still overseas until they come home.

 

[MontChevalier]

Hey all,

I know this may sound a bit contrary to what many here are saying, but I do feel a sense of pity for Osama’s death. That is, if he really is dead.

I guess I just don’t like to celebrate a person’s death like people have been doing.

The guy could be burning in hell for all we know.

I guess I just prefer showing compassion at times…
The Vatican, however, doesn’t condone celebrating his death, but it does state that he did cause suffering.

-MontChevalier

 

[hxcCatholic413]

Hey all,

I know this may sound a bit contrary to what many here are saying, but I do feel a sense of pity for Osama’s death. That is, if he really is dead.

I guess I just don’t like to celebrate a person’s death like people have been doing.

The guy could be burning in hell for all we know.

I guess I just prefer showing compassion at times…
The Vatican, however, doesn’t condone celebrating his death, but it does state that he did cause suffering.

-MontChevalier

I suppose we all have caused suffering in someone else’s life…some more than others, but in the end who really knows

 

[masterjedi747]

“I mourn the loss of thousands of precious lives, but I will not rejoice in the death of one, not even an enemy. Returning hate for hate multiplies hate, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”
–Martin Luther King, Jr.

For the record, please note that the above quotation from MLK is partially fake:
theatlantic.com/national/archive/2011/05/out-of-osamas-death-a-fake-quotation-is-born/238220/
ehaugsjaa.wordpress.com/2011/05/02/snopes-you-are-too-slow-for-internet-speed/

 

[Vouthon]

I never said God is wrong, but we simply do not know how He has judged someone, but apparently you think you know as you said in the case of Hitler and Bin Laden.

I don’t know at all its in God’s hands, however I can be sure that if he didn’t repent - and remember we have no concrete evidence that he did - then he is going to hell with so much mortal sin on his soul. I just think its rather naive to imagine that he repented in his last moments. And my beef with you is not really hoping that he repented, that is admirable and legitimate, its your desire to pray for his soul to be spared from hell. I just don’t think its our right to ask God to spare somebody who committed such henous evil. If he did repent, and God knows it, then he will forgive him. But since we can never know the mind of a man, we have only his outward actions to contemplate and based upon those I don’t think that it is a good thing to pray for him since in my humble opinion he has committed many grave sins and thus is justly worthy of hell, regrettable and terrible and sorrowful as that fact is

Yet again, we simply do not know if they repented or not. I only hope he repented, and under that condition I pray for his soul.

There was nothing wrong with the Israelites rejoicing over the downfall of the pharaoh and his chariots, they were facing impending death because the pharaoh came to kill them, and God saved them right then and there by drowning them in the sea, and so they rightfully rejoiced that God saved them via defeating Pharaoh Himself. They were not rejoicing over the eternal damnation of Pharaoh and his army, as many are rejoicing in regards to Bin Laden. (not saying you are, but others have)
I am not saying the USA was not justified in killing him, what I am saying is that I do not like the massive rejoicing I am seeing from many people. The rejoicing and hoping that he is burning for eternity, we should never rejoice or hope for that fate on anyone! Again I am not implying that anyone here is espousing those views but over the last 24 hours I have encountered several people who think that way on this issue.

I certainly don’t rejoice in anybody burning in hell. In that sense I am with you 100%, I oppose such un-Christian sentiments completely. But surely you understand why I will not be praying for Bin Laden and see mysel as being under NO duty to do so?

 

[JRRTFAN]

Really? Imagine the stress of actually being one of the men that took part in the raid. How would you like to have been the poor guy carrying a camera for the viewing pleasure of some guys watching back in their cushy office?

I wouldn’t worry about the tender emotions of the fellow who took the photos. I imagine he’s a lot more distraught over the fact that he didn’t get to shoot pistol than that he did shoot his camera.

 

[Scott_Lafrance]

I wouldn’t worry about the tender emotions of the fellow who took the photos. I imagine he’s a lot more distraught over the fact that he didn’t get to shoot pistol than that he did shoot his camera.

Have you ever been in a position where you had to take the life of someone? Its not as gleeful a moment that you are postulating here.

 

[Monte_RCMS]

I just keep thinking that ISI gave us a tethered goat. He was basically immobile. Didn’t move around. Maintaining surveillance on a dirt road across from a police station … should be impossible without being observed.

If that’s the case, what does nuclear-armed ISI get in return for the tethered goat?

What would they want in terms of administering to us an “October Surprise”?

We already got that fake trillion dollar financial crisis.

What could they possibly do to top that?

 

[SamH]

I wouldn’t worry about the tender emotions of the fellow who took the photos. I imagine he’s a lot more distraught over the fact that he didn’t get to shoot pistol than that he did shoot his camera.

I was thinking more along the lines of having to carry even more equipment so Obama could watch the White House version of Last Action Hero while eating popcorn.

 

[SamH]

In his final moments initial reports seem to suggest (if they can be trusted) that Bin Laden used his wife as a human shield. I hardly think this qualifies as repentence and yes your right, I have no right to say he did not mentally repent in his last moments but neither do you have the right to daydream that such an evil man WOULD. .

White House now admits that the reports of OBL having a gun or using his wife as a shield are false. As stated earlier this was snuff mission conducted for the sole purpose of giving Obama an election issue. He put the lives of US troops in danger to do what a Predator drone could have accomplished without making an international incident.

Now we have the problem of US troops having invaded an ally’s (I use the term loosely) country and conducting an act of war. Imagine the outrage in the US had a Chinese hit squad killed the Dalai Lama while he was visiting the US.

 

[mary_bobo]

White House now admits that the reports of OBL having a gun or using his wife as a shield are false. As stated earlier this was snuff mission conducted for the sole purpose of giving Obama an election issue. He put the lives of US troops in danger to do what a Predator drone could have accomplished without making an international incident.

Now we have the problem of US troops having invaded an ally’s (I use the term loosely) country and conducting an act of war. Imagine the outrage in the US had a Chinese hit squad killed the Dalai Lama while he was visiting the US.

As much as I disapprove of the way Obama is handling the country, I think it inappropriate to assign such motives to him. We have been hunting OBL for years and thanks to Bush we were able to obtain the information needed to finally find that evil man. Obama continued the Bush policy in this matter and I think he should be given credit for that.

 

[ManOnFire]

I wonder if Obama will release the Death Certificate? Just kidding

He will, in 2 1/2 years, after he says no to Hillary’s request, after 2 million in legal fees defending it’s non-release, and after Trump tells it like it is…

 

[seekerz]

Have you ever been in a position where you had to take the life of someone? Its not as gleeful a moment that you are postulating here.

We rarely share the same viewpoint, Scott but I have to salute you on this one. This may have been a necessary action, but there’s nothing gleeful about it and we need to pray specifically for everyone involved in the action and its planning.

 

[vz71]

White House now admits that the reports of OBL having a gun or using his wife as a shield are false.

If this is true, then the administration broke the law.
And I suspect defense of the rule of law will be an unpopular position.