OSAS and ephesians 4:30

[6glargento]

some protestants will quote ephesians 4:30 which reads:

“And do not grieve the holy Spirit of God, with which you were sealed for the day of redemption”

according to them, if we are sealed in the spirit until the day of redemption then we have eternal security and absolute assurance of salvation, how do we refute this?

 

[TheApologist]

some protestants will quote ephesians 4:30 which reads:

“And do not grieve the holy Spirit of God, with which you were sealed for the day of redemption”

according to them, if we are sealed in the spirit until the day of redemption then we have eternal security and absolute assurance of salvation, how do we refute this?

Just because one is sealed with the Holy Spirit, doesn’t mean they can’t be stripped of it through mortal sin.

For anyone who needs Bible quotes that support the Catholic position: Mt 24:13, Rom 11:22, Phil 2:12, 1 Cor 9:27, 1 Cor 10:11-12, Gal 5:4, 2 Tim 2:11-13, Heb 6:4-6, Heb 10:26-27.

 

[Pax]

I would counter this by several things.

1. The verse says nothing about eternal security and once saved always saved. Moreover, in the same letter Paul says, “Be sure of this, that no fornicator or impure man, or one who is covetous (that is, an idolater), has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no one deceive you with empty words, for it is because of these things that the wrath of God comes upon the sons of disobedience.”[Ephesians 5: 5-6]

Likewise Paul says in Eph 4:30-32 “And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, in whom you were sealed for the day of redemption. Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, with all malice, and be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.”

The book of Hebrews says this about grieving the Holy Spirit:

Hebrews 10: 26-31
For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgment, and a fury of fire which will consume the adversaries. A man who has violated the law of Moses dies without mercy at the testimony of two or three witnesses. How much worse punishment do you think will be deserved by the man who has spurned the Son of God, and profaned the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and outraged the Spirit of grace? For we know him who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge his people.” It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

I could show many other verses where Paul says that sin leads to death and he even names the sins. So Paul is warning those that are sealed not to sin because sin leads to death and condemnation. I can list verse after verse that shows these things from his letters.

1. I have researched over 60 passages of scripture that deny OSAS. If you want these send me a PM with your email address and I will send them to you.
2. Read the book of Revelation and you will quickly notice that the seven churches are given major league warnings concerning their fate if they do not change their sinful ways. Moreover, we are told over and over that “those that conquer” will receive eternal life. If OSAS were true none of these kinds of things would be stated in the book of Revelation.
3. Read 2 Peter 2:20-22…the passage absolutely trashes OSAS.

 

[anthony022071]

some protestants will quote ephesians 4:30 which reads:

“And do not grieve the holy Spirit of God, with which you were sealed for the day of redemption”

according to them, if we are sealed in the spirit until the day of redemption then we have eternal security and absolute assurance of salvation, how do we refute this?

This is directly related to the “saved by faith alone” argument. See the thread with that title.

Matthew 25,34-46 shows that we will be judged by our works.

James 2,17: “So faith by itself,if it has no works,is dead.”

How can a dead faith lead to eternal life?

 

[kra130]

some protestants will quote ephesians 4:30 which reads:

“And do not grieve the holy Spirit of God, with which you were sealed for the day of redemption”

according to them, if we are sealed in the spirit until the day of redemption then we have eternal security and absolute assurance of salvation, how do we refute this?

As i read your question i couldn’t help but wonder if you have ever thought of the possibility that your friend is right and the Catholic Church is wrong? in my mind the answer is so simple having been raised Protestant. of course the church can be wrong and it has been on many occasions. even in my own church i do not agree with all the doctrine that is taught.

i have come to realize that many catholics have a clouded view of what OSAS is. in that they assume anyone who has been baptised is automatically saved. did you know in the book of Acts there are accounts of people recieving the Holy Spirit before they were baptised as well as after they were baptised (Acts 10:44-48). one of the hardest questions a Protestant can answer is if someone else is saved. shortly after the reformation the new church came across a new problem they realized that they had no way of determining whether a person was saved or not. they came up with several way but were never certain. To find the answer with whether or not someone is saved it can take a long time as John mentions this in 1 John 2:19. John also says in John 10:28 that no one can take his sheep away. Also look at Romans 8:1-2 I think that this will absolutely destory the notion that OSAS is a false doctrine.

 

[deb1]

i have come to realize that many catholics have a clouded view of what OSAS is.

Many of the posters here are converts to Catholicism or are reverts after having explored Protestantism. So, Yes, we understand the particular version of OSAS that our churches taught. One of the strangest aspect of Protestantism is their insistent that they all teach the same thing, especially when it comes to OSAS. This isn’t true, there are many different versions of OSAS

one of the hardest questions a Protestant can answer is if someone else is saved.

It is not any humans place to determine who is saved. that is a job for God alone. We can not see into each other’s hearts so we can’t know who is saved and who isn’t.

 

[christcnection1]

I find it interesting that many claim to have “absolute assurance” of their salvation based on what they believe the Bible says. However, how do they have “absolute assurance” that their interpreting the Bible correctly in light of so verses that seem to clearly contradict their views?

If you ask me, their perspective has far less to do with intellectual rigor, and more to do with a hopeful fantasy. I’m not denying their sincerity, or even love for our Lord, but one can convince themselves of just about anything. Take people who blow themselves up for the glory of their god. That’s a pretty radically (but horribly false) assurance if you ask me.

I wish I could, in good conscience, believe in OSAS, because the idea if comforting. That’s certainly part of the attraction. However, the whole concept is utterly nonsensical in light of countless passages of scripture and sacred tradition. In my opinion, OSAS is a naive and dangerous form of self-deception.

 

[OneForTruth]

some protestants will quote ephesians 4:30 which reads:

“And do not grieve the holy Spirit of God, with which you were sealed for the day of redemption”

according to them, if we are sealed in the spirit until the day of redemption then we have eternal security and absolute assurance of salvation, how do we refute this?

Once the elect are saved - they are saved forever. See the thread - “Challenge - The Golden Chain of Salvation” - Election is spelled out quite clearly.

 

[allischalmers]

To many, salvation is merely man-centered (anthropocentric). But did only man gain when he believed? No, God gained something too! the Christain is called His inheritance, (Eph 1:18
God gained you and me when He saved us. If we could somehow lose our salvation, God would be the greater loser. He would have lost part of his inheritence and Satan would chuckle and gloat over his seizure of what belonged to God throughtout eternity. God will never surrender what belongs to Him by right of creation or redemption.

 

[deb1]

To many, salvation is merely man-centered (anthropocentric). But did only man gain when he believed? No, God gained something too! the Christain is called His inheritance, (Eph 1:18
God gained you and me when He saved us. If we could somehow lose our salvation, God would be the greater loser. He would have lost part of his inheritence and Satan would chuckle and gloat over his seizure of what belonged to God throughtout eternity. God will never surrender what belongs to Him by right of creation or redemption.

I believe that salvation is only God centered and that we can’t save ourselves. It doesn’t follow that because we depend on God that we can’t loose our salvations though.I also don’t understand how God could loose his salvation based on my actions.

 

[deb1]

Once the elect are saved - they are saved forever. See the thread - “Challenge - The Golden Chain of Salvation” - Election is spelled out quite clearly.

No, keep the conversation going on this thread so that we can all participate. If the thread that you are referring us is long, then most of us will loose a lot of time reading through post after post. So, add what you need to in this thread.

 

[allischalmers]

I believe that salvation is only God centered and that we can’t save ourselves. It doesn’t follow that because we depend on God that we can’t loose our salvations though.I also don’t understand how God could loose his salvation based on my actions.

I did not say that God would lose His salvation. God does not need to be saved from any thing. Please read my post more carefully

 

[deb1]

allischalmers:
I did not say that God would lose His salvation. God does not need to be saved from any thing. Please read my post more carefully

Simply because I mistyped does not mean that I did not read your post carefully. I meant inheritance, as you wrote. I just accidentally wrote the wrong word.

 

[teachccd]

Find me one Early Church Father who preached OSAS in the first 1500 years of Christianity and post the reference here. I will eat my keyboard. This contemporary idea is neither Biblical or sustantiated in the Church’s earliest extra biblical references. In other words OSAS was unheard of prior to the reformation. I am open for the quotes and directive references that prove me wrong.

Many will pick out a bible passage and build a doctrine around it. The bible itself mirrors the faith of the early Christian community. That’s where it’s canonicity was established. Written by the Church and acknowledged by the Church and finally and forever interpreted by that same Church.

So I’m waiting for some quotes to back up the OSAS claim. The Bible itself refutes this man made idea. But show me how the early Christians, maybe even those who existed prior to the New Testament writings, taught OSAS…Waiting…teachccd

 

[christcnection1]

A great free MP3 on this is from the Bible Christian Society.

Look for “Once Saved Always Saved”

biblechristiansociety.com/download

It rips the falsehood to shreds.

Even though the concept is a pile of dung, and is potentially leading people into a false assurance, I wish it was true. I can understand why many people embrace OSAS.

 

[teachccd]

A great free MP3 on this is from the Bible Christian Society.

Look for “Once Saved Always Saved”

biblechristiansociety.com/download

It rips the falsehood to shreds.

Even though the concept is a pile of dung, and is potentially leading people into a false assurance, I wish it was true. I can understand why many people embrace OSAS.

OSAS is a false gospel. It was never taught prior to the reformation. I agree that it would be fantastic to “know” that I am going to heaven no matter what I do since I do know Jesus as my Savior. But I would have to tear out Chapters 5, 6,and 7 of Matthew"s gospel in order to believe that. Where in the Bible does it state that we Judge ourselves?? OSAS says that we do. I accept Jesus Christ as my “personal Lord and Savior” and I’m going to heaven. I just judged my one time assent of the will as an eternal consequence. WOW!! How AWESOME would that be??? No, my friends in Christ. OSAS is false and should never be adhered to as many will continue in their mortal sins and never reconcile themselves to God. As Martin Luther stated, " we are dung covered with snow". Well Catholicism always taught that our dung can be cleaned up. The whole concept is absurd. When our dog poops in our living room do we cover it with a blanket or do we clean it up. And when we clean it up does that mean that we NEVER wash our floors again?? I think not. Makes no sense logically or theologically…teeachccd

 

[christcnection1]

OSAS is a false gospel. It was never taught prior to the reformation. I agree that it would be fantastic to “know” that I am going to heaven no matter what I do since I do know Jesus as my Savior. But I would have to tear out Chapters 5, 6,and 7 of Matthew"s gospel in order to believe that. Where in the Bible does it state that we Judge ourselves?? OSAS says that we do. I accept Jesus Christ as my “personal Lord and Savior” and I’m going to heaven. I just judged my one time assent of the will as an eternal consequence. WOW!! How AWESOME would that be??? No, my friends in Christ. OSAS is false and should never be adhered to as many will continue in their mortal sins and never reconcile themselves to God. As Martin Luther stated, " we are dung covered with snow". Well Catholicism always taught that our dung can be cleaned up. The whole concept is absurd. When our dog poops in our living room do we cover it with a blanket or do we clean it up. And when we clean it up does that mean that we NEVER wash our floors again?? I think not. Makes no sense logically or theologically…teeachccd

I hope you didn’t misunderstand. I totally agree with you.

Have you ever heard that MP3 by John Martignoni? It’s also in cd form, and great to give out to OSASers.

 

[allischalmers]

Simply because I mistyped does not mean that I did not read your post carefully. I meant inheritance, as you wrote. I just accidentally wrote the wrong word.

That,s the point, deb1. God will not lose any part of his inheritance because of what you do because you can never lose your salvation.
Suppose that you lived you whole life like sixty years faithful to God and then one day you sinned real bad ( the kind of sin that Catholic beleive would cause you to lose your salvation) and minutes later you were killed. Do you think that God would take away your salvation for one bad act?

 

[deb1]

That,s the point, deb1. God will not lose any part of his inheritance because of what you do because you can never lose your salvation.
Suppose that you lived you whole life like sixty years faithful to God and then one day you sinned real bad ( the kind of sin that Catholic believe would cause you to lose your salvation) and minutes later you were killed. Do you think that God would take away your salvation for one bad act?

Let’s put it another way. Say I live sixty years as a wonderful example to my community. I give to charities and help others. I never, ever break the law. Then one day, I purposely drive my car into a crowd of school children. When I am questioned I admit that I wanted to kill those kids and I am found sane. Should I be found Innocent because of sixty years of living a good life. Of course not? How is my example any more different then yours.

If I sinned horribly after sixty years with full knowledge of the sinfulness of my act and my mind fully functioning then yes, I could go to hell.

But just as it is unlikely that a person after sixty years of public service and caring for others will suddenly decide to happily kill school kids. It is unlikely that someone-I mean a very good Christian- with sixty years of sanctifying themselves here on earth
will purposely commit a mortal sin without then seeking absolution.

 

[allischalmers]

Let’s put it another way. Say I live sixty years as a wonderful example to my community. I give to charities and help others. I never, ever break the law. Then one day, I purposely drive my car into a crowd of school children. When I am questioned I admit that I wanted to kill those kids and I am found sane. Should I be found Innocent because of sixty years of living a good life. Of course not? How is my example any more different then yours.

If I sinned horribly after sixty years with full knowledge of the sinfulness of my act and my mind fully functioning then yes, I could go to hell.

But just as it is unlikely that a person after sixty years of public service and caring for others will suddenly decide to happily kill school kids. It is unlikely that someone-I mean a very good Christian- with sixty years of sanctifying themselves here on earth
will purposely commit a mortal sin without then seeking absolution.

But what if you died before you were able to seek absolution. Would God really make you spend forever in hell