Pax:
This is all true of the elect…i.e. those that ultimately arrive in heaven, but not of those that fall away.
Pax, one is not elect
because he arrives in heaven; one is elect by God
to ensure he arrives in heaven. Those who
appear to fall away are not the elect. Scripture is clear Pax, God intends to save
some people; those that God intends to save are called
the elect; the reason that those who don’t get saved, don’t get saved, is not because they “fell away;” they don’t get saved because God never intended to save them. They were appointed to be disobedient—to be
not saved1 Peter 2:8
and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense”;
for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed.
Jude 4
For certain persons have crept in unnoticed,
those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiousness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.I know that’s not
tradition,, but it is
God’s testimony, through your first pope, so-called, and through Jude, Jesus brother.
And as the non-elect are marked out for wrath (Rom 9:22), the elect are not so marked out
(1 Thess 5:9).
Pax:
Those that conquer are not blotted out, but those that do not will be blotted out. If this were not the case there would be no reason for the verse.
Pax, there are different “books of life,” mentioned in the scripture; run them down. In many of these “books of life,” are many names found to have been
not written (Rev 13:8; 17:8; 20:15; 21:27).
In order for you to demonstrate that the
non-conquerors of Rev 3:5 will have their names
blotted out from the book, you must first demonstrate that their names
were in the book in the first place. I wish you well in that endeavor.
Pax:
We do not have two forms of election. Someone can be initially justified and in relationship with the Lord. They can break that relationship temporarily or permanently. Someone that is initially justified but then falls away is not one of the elect. Only the “elect” actually enjoy eternity with God.
Eya, I haven’t been able to verify the two kinds of election; I heard J. Akins say that on a bible-answer-man show, in fact I have it on my i-pod, but can’t verify it.
With respect to one who is initially justified falling away, that doesn’t make any sense.
Philippians 1:6
For I am confident of this very thing, that **He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.**I posed this question earlier in this thread with respect to one
losing justification.
Justification is a good work begun by God, and God says that He will perfect that good work—justification—to the day of Christ; that being so, how can one lose their final justification, if it is God who is perfecting it?
Pax:
Another thing that helps to emphasize the importance of endurance and perseverance is the following verse taken from Jesus’ little Apocalypse where he says: “And if those days had not been shortened, no human being would be saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.”[Matt 24:22] This is significant because it shows that the situation will become so severe that not even the elect would persevere. Clearly, some “believers” will fall away and that even those that persevere could lose their salvation if God did not shorten the days of trial.
Hyperbole, Pax; the elect
will never perish. Jesus also says if your right hand sins, you should cut it off and throw it away; I assume He would want you to do the same with your left hand, should it sin.
You are sinner, Pax, correct? And I’m sure both of your hands have caused you to sin, correct? And yet you are still banging away on the keyboard at CAF.
The elect
will never perish—Jesus has spoken; the case is closed.
— and say you haven’t been loving at all!)
