OSAS- Once Saved Always Saved

[fhansen]

Continuation

Some people can be confused about the Book of Life, because God has completed the Book of Life in His “chronological order” from all eternity, but in the Bible concerning the events in the Book of Life, for our understanding, written in our chronological order, like the cancellations from the Book of Life done at our present time, this is not the case.

This fact can cause confusion, because someone may wrongly conclude; God’s children/elect can lose their salvation, which is a theological impossibility.

As we see above, Concerning the Book of Life there is only two groups of people in the world.

God’s children/elect. – All predestined to heaven from all eternity.

The Salvation/Everlasting Life of every Child/Elect of God is protected by God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance, without this protection every Child/Elect of God would end up in hell.

Every Child/Elect of God have been given the Great Commission to one way or another, **to be an ambassador of the Lord Jesus Christ. **

God’s Children/Elect’s position and glory in heaven is determined by God according to the judgment of their works, of course their salvation is not at stake, it is Eternally Protected.

**The other group is the reprobates. **
Just as every child/elect of God predestined to heaven from all eternity, in the same way all reprobates predestined to hell from all eternity.

There is no in between position, **every member of the entire human race is a member one of the above two groups. **

**THEOLOGICAL FACTS OF THE PREDESTINATION OF GOD’S CHILDREN/ELECT TO HEAVEN AND THE REPROBATES TO HELL

PREDESTINATION OF GOD’S CHILDREN/ELECT TO HEAVEN**

First theological fact: Their names stands written in the Book of Life from all eternity.

Second theological fact: They are predestined to heaven from all eternity.

Third theological fact: Heaven is in their bag from all eternity.

Fourth theological fact: Everlasting life is in their bag from all eternity.

Fifth theological fact: God performs His part of a valid baptism in heaven.
Only God’s children/elect can have valid baptism, no one else!!!

PREDESTINATION OF THE REPROBATES TO HELL. With Catholic terminology: Decree The Divine Reprobation.

The COUNTERPART of the predestination of the elect to heaven is Decree The Divine Reprobation (negative predestination to hell) of the reprobates.

First theological fact: The names of the reprobates taken out from the Book of Life from all eternity.

Second theological fact: They are predestined to hell from all eternity.

Third theological fact: Hell is in their bag from all eternity.

Fourth theological fact: Everlasting spiritual and physical death is in their bag from all eternity.

Fifth theological fact: God performs His part of a valid baptism of the (spirit + soul) of the elect in heaven.

Reprobates CAN NEVER have valid baptism for many other reasons as well, their rejection of God and His grace, if a reprobate would have a valid baptism and would die one second after baptism, he would end up in heaven and God would lose His omniscience, etc.!!!

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

Someone may ask: If the elect cannot lose their salvation, than what is the reason of Hebr.6:4-6?

It must be written for teaching purpose of the elect and for warning purpose of the reprobates who are among the elect in different Christian groups.
The reprobates at the judgment cannot say they didn’t warned.

ABOUT THE PARABLE

Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root.
They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. = Reprobates with intellectual faith.

The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. = Reprobates with intellectual faith.

But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop. = God’s children/elect with God’s gift of formed faith, they also recipients of God’s gift of salvation/everlasting life + God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance which is the Eternal Protection of their salvation/everlasting life.

Without God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance every child/elect of God would end up in hell.

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

God bless LatinRight. As usual you lack understanding, not verbiage.

 

[Michael85]

That’s the big IF. At what time do we know we are saved? Is it revealed at the Last Judgment?

Some people seem to think you are saved after answering an altar call and saying the sinner’s prayer, and have accepted Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord and Savior. But Jesus being your Lord means He is someone you must obey. That’s what Lord is, someone you obey. What then, if you fail to obey Him?

That’s not a question the believers in OSAS seem to be interested in.

That’s the whole issue I mentioned above - generally known as “Lordship Salvation”. Those who believe you do have to obey Jesus are considered to be believers in Lordship Salvation while the position of those who deny it is called “free grace theology” or “easy-believism”. Easy-believists generally teach that the believer doesn’t need to repent of any of his sins to be saved.

 

[benhur]

Yes-we have no idea where Adam is now-only that he fell once, may or may not have risen afterwards, and even if he rose he could still fall again.

We can have a guarded assurance, based on various evidences. But for all we know Mr C himself may’ve been among the reprobate. Anyway the "they were never saved to begin with " notion is just self-serving double-speak in my opinion. We simply* don’t know.* But we do know, as Scripture tells us, that many will think they’re among the elect while they are not.

Either way there’s way too much Scripture telling us that believers must: be vigilant, keep oil in their lamps, invest their talents, be holy, be perfect, feed the hungry, cloth the naked, refrain from sin, strive, persevere, etc, generally with loss of place in the kingdom at stake.

In the end, salvation isn’t universal. What we choose to do counts, beginning with the response of faith, a gift of grace we can accept or reject…

hifh,

As to the notion that some who fall away were never saved…don’t think u can discount it as u have…certainly it is a fact for some, else why would John say so, that they were never of us.

Key word was “some”. Still leaves room others who were genuine faithful but apostate.

As to persevering etc, as if you could lose the kingdom, I understand.nOt sure a Calvinist would disagree. Even Christ had to persevere.Not sure that does away with assurances, power, or any predestination .

Blessings

 

[mackbrislawn]

That’s the whole issue I mentioned above - generally known as “Lordship Salvation”. Those who believe you do have to obey Jesus are considered to be believers in Lordship Salvation while the position of those who deny it is called “free grace theology” or “easy-believism”. Easy-believists generally teach that the believer doesn’t need to repent of any of his sins to be saved.

Hey, I like that! Not having to turn from my sins!

 

[fhansen]

Hey, I like that! Not having to turn from my sins!

Yes! We don’t have to do anything, not even *change-*Jesus did it all. And all we have to do is revel in our wonderful self-assessed faith.

 

[benhur]

"I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1 John 5:13
It’s often overused by those who wish to insist that we can have certainty of our salvation, rather than striking a balance on this matter after considering all of Scripture in its whole context. Do you really think that no literary licence could’ve been employed there by John-in order to state some general principle? Would you insist that every ear that would’ve heard John’s letter was necessarily attached to a person whose eternal destiny was heaven?

Hi fh,

I have only heard it overused to do the opposite:.to convince someone who thinks they are born again that maybe they are not, also to put at rest those who have a work mentality, that is the more they work the better they feel , and vice versa.

It is impossible to have this assurance without the new birth . John addresses loving God and keeping his commandments, keeping away from sin, as fruits of that . He tops it off by saying that the Spirit of God within us gives the assurance and promise of eternal life, and confidence to go before the Throne.

John calls us to discernment, to believe not every spirit , and in light of apostasy and apostates and to even see what "spirit’’ we believe. In that self examination, if one does not have assurance, something is amiss. Either you are not born of God and should not have assurance, or you are born of God, with fruits to show, and just need this word from John to see what believing in Christ really is in terms of eternal destiny/promise.

It is totally possible for the elect to be convinced by God himself , in their spirit , of having eternal life in Christ, despite all the sign posts for right behavior, and all the apostasy signs also.

John does not say be born of God then overcome the world, but that by being born of God you have overcome the world.

Nowhere is anyone saying just hear and you have eternal life, as if other hearers have not apostatized.

Blessings

 

[fhansen]

Hi fh,

I have only heard it overused to do the opposite:.to convince someone who thinks they are born again that maybe they are not, also to put at rest those who have a work mentality, that is the more they work the better they feel , and vice versa.

it is impossible to have this assurance with the new birth . John addresses loving God and keeping his commandments, keeping away from sin, as fruits of that . He tops it off by saying that the Spirit of God within us gives the assurance and promise of eternal life, and confidence to go before the throne.

John calls us to discernment, to believe not every spirit , and in light of apostasy and apostates and to even see what Spirit we believe. In that self examination, if one does not have assurance, something is amiss.

It is totally possible for the elect to be convinced by God himself , in their spirit , of having eternal life in Christ, despite all the sign posts for right behavior, and all the apostasy signs also.

John does not say be born of God then overcome the world, but that by being born of God you have overcome the world.

Nowhere is anyone saying just hear and you have eternal life, as if other hearers have not apostatized.

Blessings

And we can lose what we have. None of us know whether or not we’ll persevere to the end.

“You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. **Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. **23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.” Rom 11

The Church of God wisely warns us against be over-confident and presumptous in our attitude towards eternal life. Humility demands that we have a level of concern, in light of our limitations and weaknesses. And in real life terms, Protestants, generally speaking, actually live that way-more or less as if their actions matter, as if they must strive.

 

[benhur]

And we can lose what we have. None of us know whether or not we’ll persevere to the end.

Hi fh,

Absolutely. And the universe can collapse any second, save being held together by His word. My hope, and joy and assurance is in His Hand, and that it is from Him. One must fear Him enough to trust Him in that. To be skittish of His Ark is wrong. It is like not being graciously awed at God’s providence thru the waters and the ark, instead fretting in a corner hoping you don’t jump off, as if there is no difference in “understanding” between you and those who did not get in.

“You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. **Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. **23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.” Rom 11

Agree , do not abuse your God given assurance !

Blessings

 

[fhansen]

Hi fh,

Absolutely. And the universe can collapse any second, save being held together by His word. My hope, and joy and assurance is in His Hand, and that it is from Him. One must fear Him enough to trust Him in that. To be skittish of His Ark is wrong. It is like not being graciously awed at God’s providence thru the waters and the ark, instead fretting in a corner hoping you don’t jump off, as if there is no difference in “understanding” between you and those who did not get in.

There are some who have this kind of fear-even though it’s not Catholic as far as teachings go. But there’s still a healthy degree of fear to be had as we we work out our salvation with He who works in us.

Agree , do not abuse your God given assurance !

Blessings

Yes, benhur, IOW don’t be too sure. In any case He can be trusted; *we’re *the wildcard-it’s always been that way with humans. God, alone, knows the names of the elect with certainty.

 

[benhur]

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

Someone may ask: If the elect cannot lose their salvation, than what is the reason of Hebr.6:4-6?

It must be written for teaching purpose of the elect and for warning purpose of the reprobates who are among the elect in different Christian groups.
The reprobates at the judgment cannot say they didn’t warned.

ABOUT THE PARABLE

Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root.
They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away. = Reprobates with intellectual faith.

The seed that fell among thorns stands for those who hear, but as they go on their way they are choked by life’s worries, riches and pleasures, and they do not mature. = Reprobates with intellectual faith.

But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop. = God’s children/elect with God’s gift of formed faith, they also recipients of God’s gift of salvation/everlasting life + God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance which is the Eternal Protection of their salvation/everlasting life.

Without God’s special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance every child/elect of God would end up in hell.

God bless Fhansen and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

Hi LR,

Thank you…lot of good stuff and work…Me thinks I need to read more, as you have.

I think just as some do wrongly abuse assurance, some wrongly misunderstand their own lack of it.

Blessings

 

[benhur]

There are some who have this kind of fear-even though it’s not Catholic as far as teachings go. But there’s still a healthy degree of fear to be had as we we work out our salvation with He who works in us.

Yes, benhur, IOW don’t be too sure. In any case He can be trusted; *we’re *the wildcard-it’s always been that way with humans. God, alone, knows the names of the elect with certainty.

Hifh,

Ok …getting closer to consensus. I will only add that the apostles had healthy assurance. Also that the church spread rapidly at its infancy due to that inner understanding from the Divine, of that eternal life, especially in the face of death.

Blessings

 

[fhansen]

Hifh,

Ok …getting closer to consensus. I will only add that the apostles had healthy assurance. Also that the church spread rapidly at its infancy due to that inner understanding from the Divine, of that eternal life, especially in the face of death.

Blessings

In Phil 3 even Paul tells us that he’s striving towards attaining the resurrection. A major point of our faith is to definitively learn of the goodness and trustworthiness of God-because we don’t believe that automatically. But that doesn’t mean that we’ll necessarily care, or continue to care-humans often simply believe what they prefer to believe-and act accordingly. Either way God seeks to place some small part of the onus for our salvation on ourselves, and an increasingly larger part as we strive, with the help of grace, to achieve our justice/perfection, so that we’ll own it, so that this whole plan of God’s has a purpose, of creating something special out of the mess of our falleness.

Salvation has never been a one-time event, but a process centered around our cooperating with God and doing the best we can with what we’re given, including time. The entire biblical context, particularly of the New Testament, needs to be taken into account.

 

[steve_b]

I’ve seen this term used often in the Non-Catholic Religions forum and I’m curious as to how people define this.

My understanding of OSAS is that a person who becomes a Christian (is “saved”) does not have to do anything from then on…that’s an extreme position but I’ve known people who subscribe to this philosophy.

As a Lutheran I don’t agree with this position. I know that we must be penitent for our sins, confess them to our Lord, be in the Word, get baptized, and regularly take the Lord’s Supper as well as part of corporate worship. Those are a lot of things to do but those are all done as a result of the Holy Spirit working in my life through Christ and because of Christ’s final sacrificial atonement on the cross.

How do you and/or your denomination define/describe OSAS? Very curious here.

***Don or Jon or any other conservative Lutheran - feel free to add or take away. Sometimes my mind doesn’t express as clearly as it used to.

Blessings, all!

Rita

if OSAS was plausible, wouldn’t it make sense Paul would be OSAS?

So why does he say the following about himself being disqualified (link operational) ἀδόκιμος ?

1 Corinthians 9:27

 

[mackbrislawn]

Hi fh,

Absolutely. And the universe can collapse any second, save being held together by His word. My hope, and joy and assurance is in His Hand, and that it is from Him. One must fear Him enough to trust Him in that. To be skittish of His Ark is wrong. It is like not being graciously awed at God’s providence thru the waters and the ark, instead fretting in a corner hoping you don’t jump off, as if there is no difference in “understanding” between you and those who did not get in.
Agree , do not abuse your God given assurance !

Blessings

Yes, we have absolute assurance in our Father. He is not like some earthly human fathers, like when his children come home they do not know if he will be in a drunken rage or not. We know our heavenly Father is constant and not whimsical nor arbitrary like the pagan gods the early Christians used to know. Our Christian Father keeps His promises. Now, it is up to us to keep our promises too!

We also have the promise of the rainbow that God will not let the universe collapse.

 

[LatinRight]

God bless LatinRight. As usual you lack understanding, not verbiage.

God bless you Fhansen, thank you for your post.

LatinRight

 

[LatinRight]

Hi LR,

Thank you…lot of good stuff and work…Me thinks I need to read more, as you have.

I think just as some do wrongly abuse assurance, some wrongly misunderstand their own lack of it.

Blessings

God bless you Benhur, thank you for your post.

LatinRiight

 

[LatinRight]

Yes, we have absolute assurance in our Father. He is not like some earthly human fathers, like when his children come home they do not know if he will be in a drunken rage or not. We know our heavenly Father is constant and not whimsical nor arbitrary like the pagan gods the early Christians used to know. Our Christian Father keeps His promises. Now, it is up to us to keep our promises too!

We also have the promise of the rainbow that God will not let the universe collapse.

God bless Mackbrislawn and every readers of the CAF.

I like your post and I wouldn’t change anything in it, I only like add to it.

As God’s children /elect we have a VERY SERIOUS responsibility to keep our promises.

But without God’s help none of us could keep our promises.

So, God gives us at our baptism His special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance which infallibly protects us that we never fail in the way to lose heaven and end up in hell.

Without the above special grace The Gift of Final Perseverance not even one of us as God’s child/elect could make it to heaven and we all would end up in hell with the reprobates.

So, it is not our ability takes us up to heaven but the grace of God.

ST. AUGUSTINE ON GRACE AND PREDESTINATION

De gratia Christi 25, 26:
“For not only has God given us our ability and helps it, but He even works [brings about] willing and acting in us; not that we do not will or that we do not act, but that without His help we neither will anything good nor do it.”

De gratia et libero arbitrio 16, 32:
“It is certain that we will when we will; but He brings it about that we will good. . . . It is certain that we act when we act, but He brings it about that we act, PROVIDING MOST EFFECTIVE POWERS TO THE WILL.”

Phil.2:13; “For it is God who works in you BOTH TO WILL and TO ACT for His good pleasure.”

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES,PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

The salvation of God’s children/elect always based on God’s initiative.

God bless Mackbrislawn and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[LatinRight]

Yes, we have absolute assurance in our Father. He is not like some earthly human fathers, like when his children come home they do not know if he will be in a drunken rage or not. We know our heavenly Father is constant and not whimsical nor arbitrary like the pagan gods the early Christians used to know. Our Christian Father keeps His promises. Now, it is up to us to keep our promises too!

We also have the promise of the rainbow that God will not let the universe collapse.

God bless Mackbrislawn and every readers of the CAF.

As I studied my above post I just realized, one sentence: Now, it is up to us to keep our promises too!

Need to change to: Now, it is up to God to keep our promises too!

CCC 2022; “The divine initiative in the work of grace PRECEDES,PREPARES, and ELICITS the free response of man. …”

Aquinas said, “God changes the will without forcing it.
But he can change the will from the fact that He himself operates in the will as He does in nature,” De Veritatis 22:9.

Similarly, the Council of Orange says that “in every good work, we do not begin.” (#329.2)

God bless Mackbrislawn and every readers of the CAF.

LatinRight

 

[drblank1]

Sounds like the Catholic understanding of predestination.

Predestination is not just catholic. Many protestants believe in predestination.

Election is very scriptural. But only God knows who is heaven bound.

If you believe that “only God knows”, why would you pray to anyone other than the Trinity (not saying you do). You could be praying to one of God’s enemies.

What is your scriptural support in “But only God knows…” This seams to contradict what Jesus teaches us in Matthew 7:15-20, John tells us in 1 John 8 and among other Scripture.

God bless

 

[James248]

If you believe that “only God knows”, why would you pray to anyone other than the Trinity (not saying you do). You could be praying to one of God’s enemies.

What is your scriptural support in “But only God knows…” This seams to contradict what Jesus teaches us in Matthew 7:15-20, John tells us in 1 John 8 and among other Scripture.

God bless

And what about this verse?

5 Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God.

All the verses you’ve mentioned talk about the present state of a person, not on whether he will be in Heaven or Hell in the next life.