Osiris and Jesus?

[NekoNecro]

An interesting commentary on the December 25th dating of Christmas can be found here:

tofspot.blogspot.ca/2011/12/mas-time-is-here-by-golly.html#more

An excerpt:

Also

The problem here is that your premise is flawed, because the Roman state religion only accounted for Gods from the state Parthenon. Isis and Mithras were very widespread and popular cults, arguably practiced even more than the state religion but they did not have a state holy day so would not be included.

December the 25th was however recognized as the birthday of Horus, Mithras and a multitude of other deities.

And just for completions sake, yes there was a state “day” on december 25th in Rome,
it was for Attis; another solar deity who supposedly rose from the dead after three days religioustolerance.org/xmas_sel.htm

 

[oldcatholicguy]

I never said it was the only one, I am refering more specifically to the method of depiction and positions the divine figures are placed in.

Like for example, take this Ptolemaic Idol of Isis and Horus from around 30BC and compare it to one of the oldest known depictions of the *Theotokos *in the western Roman Empire.

http://shomreyhatorah.webs.com/danb..._1isis_and_baby_horus_mary_and_baby_jesus.jpg

Some slight differences, the veil and flowing robes are more benefiting a modest Roman Matron than the Queen of Magic aren’t they?

http://aryanity.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/chapter-9-figure-1.jpg
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/pd511f7c60.jpg

But as I said, this doesn’t really have much bearing on the Theology itself, merley the way artists chose to depict the relationship.

Egypt isn’t the only area proposed though in truth, we can find some similarities in Hinduism as well, albit that itself may have been influenced by Egyptian art too.

http://www.cyprusfreethinkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Cyprus-FreeThinkers-web.jpg

You seem to be basing your view on things that look similar.
-Above depictions of mother holding child- There are only so many ways an artist can depict a mother holding her child. I’m sure a google search for mother holding child will result in numerous “Oh look that’s proof Egyptian mythology has influenced X” “proofs”. One could also make a similar faulty argument in regards to male deities. Egyptian god standing and X deity standing. Proves nothing other than artists (particularly those working in stone or clay) have a limited number of poses they can put their subject in.
-Prior comment- Circle symbol for a sun god and the Eucharist- Once again looking the same doesn’t equate to common origin. The sun is round, the circle is a common symbol used for it, not too many people would take serious an argument that a NA religion was based on Egyptian mythology because both use a circle to represent the sun. The Eucharist (which wasn’t always in the form of individual wafers) comes from the Passover in which unleavened bread was used. Unleavened bread, and bread itself, for that area and time was round.

 

[Goya]

Thank you for your responses. I’ve just been having a lot of trouble with my faith lately. Pray for me. Please.

Trouble with your faith is often a good thing. It provokes us to dig, to read, to research, to question…to seek Truth. I’ll pray for you, Dan…

…but keep digging…I am confident that you will find Truth in the Catholic Faith, and your faith will be confirmed, not weakened.

I wrestled with this issue several years ago as well; it shook my faith. I prayed, and prayed, dug and dug, researched and read…and found my faith confirmed, and strengthened (significantly, I should add) for it. I chalk it up to ‘growing pains’. We must go through these phases, in order to strengthen our faith–as our faith must be challenged, if it is ever to be true–as with anything in life–we must be challenged, in order to strive. For growth does not occur in peace, comfort, and complacency–but through questioning, praying, being challenged, and striving–IOW–through adversity.

Now, FWIW, here’s how I recon this issue–best illustrated by counter example. Look at ‘Santeria’ (popular in Caribbean area). It is a hybrid–or rather, a variety of Voodoo–veiled in Christian iconography. African slaves took Christian icons, and honored Voodoo gods through them. So an image of Mary, or Joseph, or such, would be given a different name, and worshiped (idolatry) as a Voodoo god.

So, the question becomes, are they Christian, because they worship Christian icons? Or Voodoo, because they worship Voodoo gods?

It becomes rather clear that they are not Christian at all, and at the very least, far more ‘Voodoo’, than Christian–even if it ‘looks’ like Christianity–or rather, looks more Christian (due to the Christian iconography), than Voodoo.

…likewise, even if we take everything as alleged about Pagan symbolism in Christianity (FTSOA–as clearly most of it is garbage)–the point is rather clear, that Catholic Christianity, remains purely Christian, notwithstanding what Pagan influences might be found in it (e.g.–red and green as Christmas colors, were the colors of pagan holiday celebrated on December 25. Is Christmas any less Christian, as a result?).

Christian Faith is defined by what we believe, practice, and preach–not by what colors or symbols we use to practice our faith.

The Catholic Church has preached the Gospel of Christ for 2,000+ years. It preserved the Word of God inviolate, for centuries, and continues to do so. The Eucharist is preached, believed, and worshiped, as the Body and Blood of Christ. Not some symbol of the sun. The icons of the Saints, are representative of the people who lived as Christians–not some pagan gods.

We preach what Christ taught us–Charity (love of God with all your heart, mind and soul, and love of neighbor, as oneself, for the love of God)–and salvation through Christ. That is the core of Christianity; everything else, falls within that framework…

…and the paper thin nexus between paganism, and Christianity, is exposed not only as frail and failing even the slightest of scrutiny…but as the patent, blatant, obvious fraud that it is.

Peace.

 

[roger_pearse]

The problem here is that your premise is flawed, because the Roman state religion only accounted for Gods from the state Parthenon. Isis and Mithras were very widespread and popular cults, arguably practiced even more than the state religion but they did not have a state holy day so would not be included.

December the 25th was however recognized as the birthday of Horus, Mithras and a multitude of other deities.

And just for completions sake, yes there was a state “day” on december 25th in Rome,
it was for Attis; another solar deity who supposedly rose from the dead after three days religioustolerance.org/xmas_sel.htm

I’m afraid you’ve been tangoed by some of the modern myth makers who think it clever to assert nonsense.

No ancient source recognises any “birthday of Mithras”. And which ancient source associates Attis with 25 Dec.

Note that Attis did not rise from the dead. His myth was specifically that he did not, despite Cybele’s pleas to Father Zeus. Only ca. 350, under pressure from Christianity, did the idea appear that Attis was “really” just the corn; and our source for this, Firmicus Maternus, jeers that they just made this up to evade the attention of the police (for Attis was a dodgy cult indeed).

Be very wary. For some reason there are people out there who think that making up crude falsehoods - you can check modern standard reference sources - of this kind serves their religious agenda. But to the rest of us, these malevolent bigots merely poison the web.

I have reached the stage at which I believe nothing of these kind of claims until I see the ancient evidence which requires them. It’s the only way.

All the best,

Roger Pearse

 

[KP3243]

I never said it was the only one, I am refering more specifically to the method of depiction and positions the divine figures are placed in.

Like for example, take this Ptolemaic Idol of Isis and Horus from around 30BC and compare it to one of the oldest known depictions of the *Theotokos *in the western Roman Empire.

http://shomreyhatorah.webs.com/danb..._1isis_and_baby_horus_mary_and_baby_jesus.jpg

Some slight differences, the veil and flowing robes are more benefiting a modest Roman Matron than the Queen of Magic aren’t they?

http://aryanity.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/chapter-9-figure-1.jpg
http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/pd511f7c60.jpg

But as I said, this doesn’t really have much bearing on the Theology itself, merley the way artists chose to depict the relationship.

Egypt isn’t the only area proposed though in truth, we can find some similarities in Hinduism as well, albit that itself may have been influenced by Egyptian art too.

http://www.cyprusfreethinkers.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Cyprus-FreeThinkers-web.jpg

GOD IS TRUTH, why would you think His creation would know not truth which is HIM even if they never heard the Gospels? It why missionaries can go to any part of the world and convert souls, there is a threshold of truth we are born with.