Our Eastern Catholic Youth

[Thomas48]

I have noticed increasingly in the U.S that many Syro Malabar Catholic youth turn away from the Holy Qurbana and many of our Eastern Customs. The reoccurring answer to why the children leave is because they find the East Syriac Qurbana way to long being almost two hours in some cases, in contrast with the Latin Mass which is only forty minutes to an hour.

Our children seem to be turning away from the whole idea of Syro Malabar Church in general. When I think of it, I really don’t see why we construct so many parishes or bring priests over from India. What is the over all point if the next generation will not carry on the St.Thomas Syro Malabar Diocese for us? This is the same situation for Knanaya parents, though very surprisingly even though the youth choose Latin Mass over the East Syriac Qurbana, they favor endogamy and continuing Knanaya tradition, this is likely due to our close-knit community.

Another reason the children seem to choose the Latin Mass is because many don’t understand the language in which the Syro Malabar Qurbana is said, Malayalam, or their skill in the language isn’t as adequate. In order to counter this, the Syro Malabar Church translated the Holy Qurbana to English, even so, the length seemed to still affect the youth. There seems to be no stalemate in promoting our Church to our own children. Do any of the other Eastern Catholic Churches face this problem?

 

[adawgj]

At least they aren’t leaving the Catholic Church. I’ll try to pray that the youth in your rite will one day keep a strong identity of their heritage.

 

[MorEphrem]

Another reason the children seem to choose the Latin Mass is because many don’t understand the language in which the Syro Malabar Qurbana is said, Malayalam, or their skill in the language isn’t as adequate. In order to counter this, the Syro Malabar Church translated the Holy Qurbana to English, even so, the length seemed to still affect the youth. There seems to be no stalemate in promoting our Church to our own children. Do any of the other Eastern Catholic Churches face this problem?

The Maronite Church in the US definitely suffers from youth turning away from the Church. The language of the liturgy is actually a big issue because many priests insist on using Arabic when many youth don’t sufficiently understand it. Plus with liturgical changes, as one of my friend put it, why would he go to the novus ordo in Arabic when he can at least attend it in English (his first language)?

My idealism might be shining through but when I’ve spoken to youth about restoring our distinct identity and keeping to our traditions they seem enthusiastic. Although the fact that one of the Patriarch’s assistants told me it’s a “bad thing that the youth want too much of the old stuff like Syriac and the rituals” doesn’t give me much hope. I’ve come to a point where I leave it in the hands of God because all it’s going to do is upset me.

 

[malphono]

The Maronite Church in the US definitely suffers from youth turning away from the Church. The language of the liturgy is actually a big issue because many priests insist on using Arabic when many youth don’t sufficiently understand it.

The “language issue” is somewhat complicated and has been around in the diaspora for well over 75 years. In many way, it is, I think, inextricably intertwined with the matter of identity. This is true of the Chaldeans, Armenians, Syriac and Coptic Orthodox, and even the Greek Orthodox. Most of the latter try, at least, to offer some instruction in the various “ancient tongues” in order to help foster that very sense of identity. Language is a very strongly bond with identity, and to completely lose touch with our traditional languages will inevitably lead to a loosening – and ultimately a breaking – of that bond. But the “language issue” itself is, of course, only part of the equation.

Plus with liturgical changes, as one of my friend put it, why would he go to the novus ordo in Arabic when he can at least attend it in English (his first language)?

My idealism might be shining through but when I’ve spoken to youth about restoring our distinct identity and keeping to our traditions they seem enthusiastic.

I’ve come across some young Maronites who habitually frequent Melkite churhces where the language mix is similar (albeit that a little Greek is used instead of a little Syriac, but we all know that), and they have no problem with it. It’s the liturgy itself that draws them. The fact that it’s more-or-less true to its own traditions, whereas the neo-Maronite is anything but, is a very important factor.

Some months ago, I asked a friend of mine why I rarely see his son (early 20s) in church. The answer was "he prefers the Melkites because they’re clearly Eastern. I asked him the same question and he replied ‘Dad, why should I bother going to the Maronite church when it’s almost the same as the Latin church down the street?’ "

In some cases in the diaspora, tradition suffers, to one or another degree, to attrition, but in the case of the Maronites is much more than that. It amounts to a deprivation, and that is much more difficult to overcome. The unfortunate fact is that the Maronites, in the “homeland” as well as in the diaspora, have been deprived of their heritage and identity. And I don’t mean strictly on an ethno-cultural level. The idea of restoring some sense of identity seems to be a beacon of hope, but it’s an uphill battle.

Although the fact that one of the Patriarch’s assistants told me it’s a “bad thing that the youth want too much of the old stuff like Syriac and the rituals” doesn’t give me much hope. I’ve come to a point where I leave it in the hands of God because all it’s going to do is upset me.

Perfect example of the deprivation I mentioned in the preceding. The sad part is that the Church does little, if anything at all, to foster the restoration of tradition and identity. In some places it’s quite to the contrary. Without that restoration, including, among other things, the abandonment of Novus Ordo-inspired neo-latinizations, I doubt that our identity will survive.

 

[Peter_J]

Another reason the children seem to choose the Latin Mass is because many don’t understand the language in which the Syro Malabar Qurbana is said, Malayalam, or their skill in the language isn’t as adequate. In order to counter this, the Syro Malabar Church translated the Holy Qurbana to English, even so, the length seemed to still affect the youth. There seems to be no stalemate in promoting our Church to our own children. Do any of the other Eastern Catholic Churches face this problem?

A thought relating to language …

The very first time I attended an EC liturgy, back in 2000, it was a UGCC parish. One of the things I remember is thinking that there was a lot of Ukrainian in the liturgy – despite the priest saying that there wasn’t much.

But after going there a few times, I realized most of the Ukrainian responses were repetitions of the same few phrases (e.g. Hospodi Pomilui). In other words, you needed to know very little Ukrainian to participate – very different than if e.g. the Readings were in Ukrainian.

 

[Peter_J]

The “language issue” is somewhat complicated and has been around in the diaspora for well over 75 years. In many way, it is, I think, inextricably intertwined with the matter of identity. This is true of the Chaldeans, Armenians, Syriac and Coptic Orthodox, and even the Greek Orthodox.

And PNCC. (Although the PNCC parish in my area has the mass entirely in English, so …)

 

[Polypore_Joe]

Hi,

I’m 37, but I grew up attending the Ukrainian Catholic Church (though I was Baptized in the Latin Rite).

When I left home at 18 I stopped attending eastern Liturgies and fell in love with the Latin rite. For me, it wasn’t a matter of language or length of Liturgy, but of the emphasis on the Ukrainian culture, which really turned me off (plus I don’t have a slavic last name, so we were kind of on the outs with the other families). I learned more of the tragic history of the Ukraine than I did my faith. It was very much an us against them mentality that trickled down from the old folks to the young. (us vs. the Orthodox; us vs. the Russians; us. vs the RCs).

When I started attending the Latin rite I was blown away by the universality of it all. All sorts of people with different cultures, backgrounds and skin colors praying together at Mass; it felt like home. Nobody cared where in the old country my family came from.

Anyways, I do have a respect for and understand the need of the Eastern Churches to be part of our Catholic religion. I think your spirituality is beautiful and your liturgy even more so.

I do think though that you’re going to be in tough trying to keep your young people from leaving (at least in North America) to the Latin Rite. It’s a very universal world, your kids might pine to be part of something bigger. And by bigger I mean simply: a larger population, or sample size. There are youth groups, charisms, Theology-on-Tap, etc. emanating from the Latin Rite to help your kids navigate these hard times. Are there any similar Eastern Rite groups? I can’t think of any.

Anyways, my two cents based on my own experience. God bless.

 

[dzheremi]

If the language is such an issue for your guys (all of you), why don’t you have things like Mahragan El-Keraza (Evangelism Festival)? This is a competition, of sorts, to get kids to learn the history, language, and hymns of the Church, that is held every year on a general theme. The youth are divided by age categories and learn what is appropriate for their age, then they compete for awards on competition day in various categories (e.g., Coptic language, Tasbeha, History, Drama, etc). The lessons range from kindergarten level through high school. This assures that kids develop a strong sense of identity as Coptic Christians from a very young age. Of course, it helps that other practices of the Church (some of which might not have an analog in your particular church; I dunno) also reinforce this, e.g., no marriage outside of the communion; the very young “deacons-in-training” you can often find in Coptic churches, (starting around age 5 from what I’ve personally witnessed); the strong emphasis on developing and keeping to a daily prayer rule via the Agpeya and Bible reading, fasting as a whole church, etc.

This could be your child!
(Maybe someday I can know “Apenchois” this well, too. I wonder if the child gives lessons…)

 

[Kielbasi]

You are probably right on target that many Syro Malabar Catholic youth are probably not going to carry on the traditions here in America- but I don’t think it has anything to do with the language or the length of the liturgy. Just the inevitable march of time and demographic realities.

In the US, Latin Rite Catholics outnumber Syro Malabar Catholics by more than 600 to 1. The odds are that the overwhelming number of your youth will marry outside of the Syro Malabar community. Many of the young people are likely to move elsewhere in America after they graduate from school to pursue their dreams of a career and family, many far away from any Syro Malabar churches.

The dilution of the Syro Malabar culture seems inevitable here in America, especially as generation after generation moves further away from your roots in India.

We’ve seen a lot of this in the Pittsburgh area, with the number of ethnic based communities and churches just losing track of each other over time.

But that doesn’t mean that bringing priests over from India and maintaining what you have isn’t worthwhile, the Syro Malabar Church can be a witness to the thousands of other, non-Catholic Indians here in America that are still coming over.

 

[pfilipo]

People:

 I am a deacon in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Ontario, Canada and yes I have noticed that many of our youth are leaving our Church, some for the RC's and others just leaving. I have also researched, studied and written articles on this very same topic. I have come to the conclusion that many of our youth are leaving the UGCC due to the ethnic nature of the UGCC especially when it comes to such things as calendar and especially language. Many, if not most of the UGCC in Ontario have liturgies only in Ukrainian or with very little English. In the main, the youth do not understand or speak Ukrainian and thus cannot participate in the liturgy. Their liturgical holidays are on the Gregorian calendar. They cannot celebrate Christmas when they feel it is Christmas and last year Easter by the Julian calendar feel five weeks after the Gregorian calendar. 

 If they marry outside their ethnic / language group, they inevitably go to their spouse’s Church, usually RC, so that their spouse can participate in the mass. I have many cousins and friends who married outside of the UGCC and who are active in their RC parishes where they hear the service in the language that the whole family understands and where they celebrate the liturgical year as they see it.

Unfortunately the UGCC and its parishioners does not speak to our youth except to decry their lack of support for the Ukrainian language. The UGCC in Ontario and Her people seem to equate Ukrainian language and heritage with God. In many ways the UGCC is like a deer in headlights, She sees the problem youth leaving, but cannot or will not attempt to resolve the alienation of Her youth.

As youth and others who do not feel Ukrainian leave the UGCC, those left behind become stronger and more adamant in preserving the Ukrainian language and traditions, i.e., calendar. The clergy is reluctant / afraid to confront the ‘nationalists’ and thus the situation remains. The congregations are becoming older and with a recent influx of immigrants from Ukraine, more nationalistic. 

I have attended clergy meetings of our Eparchy where this situation, declining numbers, is discussed but nothing has come of it. Again, since many of the clergy have emigrated from Eastern Europe and since they do not have the will or possibly desire to confront their nationalistic parishioners, nothing is done and people leave. 

Unfortunately, smaller UGCC churches are closing as their congregations die off and are not replaced by their children or others. Churches in larger communities are facing a major decline in the number of parishioners as the average age of the Church rises dramatically.  I am afraid that soon, 20 – 25 years, the UGCC in Ontario will be reduced to a few parishes in Toronto and southern Ontario.

 

[malphono]

…I have come to the conclusion that many of our youth are leaving the UGCC due to the ethnic nature of the UGCC especially when it comes to such things as calendar and especially language. Many, if not most of the UGCC in Ontario have liturgies only in Ukrainian or with very little English. In the main, the youth do not understand or speak Ukrainian and thus cannot participate in the liturgy. …

Unfortunately the UGCC and its parishioners does not speak to our youth except to decry their lack of support for the Ukrainian language. The UGCC in Ontario and Her people seem to equate Ukrainian language and heritage with God. In many ways the UGCC is like a deer in headlights, She sees the problem youth leaving, but cannot or will not attempt to resolve the alienation of Her youth. …

That seems to be something of a general UGCC issue, and I imagine it remains as a relic of Soviet Union when anything and everything Ukrainian was suppressed. I knew a number of UGCC seminarians “back in the day” and they were forever pining about just that. I can actually understand the sentiment, although I will agree that when it takes center-stage, particularly now that Soviet Union is history, it can be a big problem.

This is the kind of situation where I’d think what [post=11207479]dzheremi[/post] suggested earlier, plus a little staroslavenski, would come in handy. Why the starolavenski? Well, precisely because it’s tradition and yet not specifically Ukrainian. When the traditional languages are completely abandoned, we all lose something of our identity and the ties that bind us to our tradition. No, I’m not saying to use only staroslavenski, but in a way it’s like hot pepper: a little goes a long way.

The business about the calendar, though, is I think mainly one of catechesis. The Orthodox down the street don’t seem to have a problem with it, do they? In fact, from the Orthodox I know personally (mainly GO and AOC but I don’t think that matters very much, except that they use the “modified Julian”), they’re actually proud of the difference in calendar. Maybe using the “modified Julian Calendar” would be a help. But even without that, the idea of teaching people that they follow a different calendar doesn’t seem to me to be so extreme, provided the reasons behind are explained. Catechesis.

 

[pfilipo]

malphono, you indicate that we should consider reverting back to staroslavenski as the language of the liturgy. Sure we could and that way even fewer will understand the liturgy. But why stop there, why not go back to the original languages of Christianity, Latin, Greek or even Hebrew. I think you would agree that this would be foolish if not harmful.

When Sts. Cyril and Methodius went to Rome to present Adrian II copies of the liturgy that they developed in the language of the people of the lands that they were sent, they were met in Florence and attacked for using the language of these people. They were told that the only languages that could be used in the liturgy were Greek, Latin or Hebrew, the so called Tri-Lingual Heresy. Thankfully, upon arriving in Rome, Pope Adrian condemned this thinking and led the liturgy of Sts Cyril and Methodius in the three major churches of Rome. 

Today, the UGCC has lost this evangelical spirit, this presentation of the liturgy in the language of the people, in North America, English. The UGCC has ghettoized Herself at the feet of Ukraine, language and tradition. If something is lost by the lose of a language then by all means, set up language schools, theatres, studios and so on for those who wish to learn the language. But the duty of the Church is to bring the Word of God to the people, not to preserve a language, custom and tradition.

As for the calendar, I also know Orthodox adherents, Ukrainian, Greek, Serbian to name a few, who ignore the calendar issue by celebrating the holidays by the Gregorian calendar. They may go to Church by the Old Calendar but only if Christmas is on a weekend. They do not or cannot miss a day of work. As for Easter, this year when Easter was 5 weeks apart, they felt that Easter was over by the time their Churches celebrated the Resurrection. But, more succinctly, if the Orthodox faithful marry outside of their ethnic group, then, in many cases, the newly formed family leaves the Orthodox Churches for others.

In many ways, the problem with the youth leaving the Church is a major problem of all ethnically based Churches. I have a friend who belongs to an Estonian Lutheran Church where their service is in Estonian, a language not spoken by his children. They belong to a small Church where, in his words, the parishioners are more interested in speaking and hearing Estonian than in the Word of God. They use the new calendar but they have few youth. I also know people who attend a ‘Polish’ RC Church where the masses are in Polish. They too are losing their youth.

Basically, the UGCC and other ethnically based Churches see themselves as preservers of their ethnic group. They have lost the evangelical spirit of Sts Cyril and Methodius who created a script, a written language to communicate Christ to the people. By their actions they saw preaching in the language of the people, they saw using the traditions of those they were serving to bring the Word of God to them more important than preserving a language. I would only wish that the UGCC would recognize that this is the root of the Church and not Ukrainian.

 

[dzheremi]

Maybe the UGCC or other Byzantines are different than the Orientals, then. In the Coptic Church, our liturgies themselves are translations (from Greek to Coptic, and in Egypt/Sudan/Libya from Coptic to Arabic), so it’s not really a necessity that they stay in Coptic. We can and do celebrate the liturgy in other languages just as easily, but at the same time there is a recognition from everyone that Coptic should be kept as part of the church’s life because it is the history and roots of the Church in the homeland of the majority of its members, and so in order to be connected to their Church and not end up in a situation like the OP describes, people deserve to have their liturgical heritage respected. Coptic hymns and iconography (we should work on that one…) and theology and all that is its own unique treasure, no different than what can also be said for the Syriacs, Slavs, Romanians, etc., and so we keep it because we recognize the value of what our forefathers in the faith (if not always our genetic forefathers) brought to us, and don’t want to see it watered down so that n-th generation people or uncomfortable converts can pretend that their (new) Church really came out of Rome or Ohio or whatever, and not Egypt or Mesopotamia (or Ukraine, Russia, Greece, etc).

We still love their examples and try to model ourselves on their lives. I would rather learn Coptic in an Orthodox Church than learn Latin in an unorthodox one, and believe me that has nothing to do with anyone’s ethnicity or the language itself (going by my ethnicity, I would have it backwards in my current situation). It’s just the matter that we want to be like our Fathers, and if that means learning a little Coptic, why not? They wrote our hymns and prayers in it, even if we say them in English 80% of the time. Our priests and such already have to learn English, Spanish, German, etc. and because those then become the vehicle for teaching and preserving the Orthodox faith, that’s excellent. But we don’t forget what came before us in a rush to make people comfy. If your kids are leaving, maybe you could show them what they’re leaving by digging deeply into your own history…a shocking idea, I know, but it seems to work for the crazy Orientals…

But then they’re not bringing the Church to anywhere new, anyway…they’re too terribly “ethnic”, don’tchaknow?

 

[Aramis]

There is nothing wrong with the use of Church Slavonic in the liturgy, provided accomodation is made for English in the liturgy.

The Very Right Reverend Michael Artim (Chaplain of the Papal Household and Mitered Archpriest) found a great way… Troparia in English and slavonic, then prokimenia as well. Svjatij Bože/Holy God and Christ is Risen: English-Slavonic-English.

The other hymns, in the language predominant at liturgy and/or Cantor’s Choice.

 

[Peter_J]

People:

 I am a deacon in the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church in Ontario, Canada and yes I have noticed that many of our youth are leaving our Church, some for the RC's and others just leaving. I have also researched, studied and written articles on this very same topic. I have come to the conclusion that many of our youth are leaving the UGCC due to the ethnic nature of the UGCC especially when it comes to such things as calendar and especially language. Many, if not most of the UGCC in Ontario have liturgies only in Ukrainian or with very little English. In the main, the youth do not understand or speak Ukrainian and thus cannot participate in the liturgy. Their liturgical holidays are on the Gregorian calendar. They cannot celebrate Christmas when they feel it is Christmas and last year Easter by the Julian calendar feel five weeks after the Gregorian calendar. 

 If they marry outside their ethnic / language group, they inevitably go to their spouse’s Church, usually RC, so that their spouse can participate in the mass. I have many cousins and friends who married outside of the UGCC and who are active in their RC parishes where they hear the service in the language that the whole family understands and where they celebrate the liturgical year as they see it.

Unfortunately the UGCC and its parishioners does not speak to our youth except to decry their lack of support for the Ukrainian language. The UGCC in Ontario and Her people seem to equate Ukrainian language and heritage with God. In many ways the UGCC is like a deer in headlights, She sees the problem youth leaving, but cannot or will not attempt to resolve the alienation of Her youth.

As youth and others who do not feel Ukrainian leave the UGCC, those left behind become stronger and more adamant in preserving the Ukrainian language and traditions, i.e., calendar. The clergy is reluctant / afraid to confront the ‘nationalists’ and thus the situation remains. The congregations are becoming older and with a recent influx of immigrants from Ukraine, more nationalistic. 

I have attended clergy meetings of our Eparchy where this situation, declining numbers, is discussed but nothing has come of it. Again, since many of the clergy have emigrated from Eastern Europe and since they do not have the will or possibly desire to confront their nationalistic parishioners, nothing is done and people leave. 

Unfortunately, smaller UGCC churches are closing as their congregations die off and are not replaced by their children or others. Churches in larger communities are facing a major decline in the number of parishioners as the average age of the Church rises dramatically.  I am afraid that soon, 20 – 25 years, the UGCC in Ontario will be reduced to a few parishes in Toronto and southern Ontario.

Good post.

 

[Peter_J]

This is the kind of situation where I’d think what [post=11207479]dzheremi[/post] suggested earlier, plus a little staroslavenski, would come in handy. Why the starolavenski? Well, precisely because it’s tradition and yet not specifically Ukrainian. When the traditional languages are completely abandoned, we all lose something of our identity and the ties that bind us to our tradition. No, I’m not saying to use only staroslavenski, **but in a way it’s like hot pepper: a little goes a long way. **

I don’t know much about staroslavenski, but I think the same can be said about foreign (non-vernacular) languages in general. I don’t want to push for liturgies in which every single last word is in English (or whatever the local vernacular may be) … but when e.g. the Readings and Gospel, or even the homily, are in a non-vernacular language

 

[MorEphrem]

I don’t know much about staroslavenski, but I think the same can be said about foreign (non-vernacular) languages in general. I don’t want to push for liturgies in which every single last word is in English (or whatever the local vernacular may be) … but when e.g. the Readings and Gospel, or even the homily, are in a non-vernacular language

That was quite my point before; I take issue with the fact newly immigrated Maronites demand everything in Arabic so Maronite Churches become “half way houses” (as one priest put it) for immigrants - the next generation generally has no interest to go to a liturgy they can’t understand or even read. Arabic is neither our vernacular in the US nor is it our liturgical language, so I have particular distaste to its excessive use in an Anglophone country. One thing is certain is if I was a priest I definitely wouldn’t ever use Arabic (apart from the fact my Arabic reading speed is analogous to a five year old).

I know certain Maronites who criticize the Syriac Orthodox for saying the Qurbono in a language “no one understands” (although many SO in my area are from Tur Abdin and therefore speak Syriac fluently and have educated their children) yet even at their cathedral they do the courtesy of an English homily.

 

[Peter_J]

Good post.

On a side note, I’m also becoming (or maybe I always was) very skeptical of the practice of a parish having one liturgy entirely in English, and another entirely in Ukrainian etc. In most of those cases, I really think it should be a matter of having *more *English in one liturgy than the other, not having one entirely one way and the other entirely the other way. (Plus there’s the whole question of whether the attendance at each liturgy is low enough that it would be better to just have one liturgy, but that’s another jar of worms.)

 

[malphono]

I don’t know much about staroslavenski, but I think the same can be said about foreign (non-vernacular) languages in general. I don’t want to push for liturgies in which every single last word is in English (or whatever the local vernacular may be) … but when e.g. the Readings and Gospel, or even the homily, are in a non-vernacular language

On a side note, I’m also becoming (or maybe I always was) very skeptical of the practice of a parish having one liturgy entirely in English, and another entirely in Ukrainian etc. In most of those cases, I really think it should be a matter of having *more *English in one liturgy than the other, not having one entirely one way and the other entirely the other way.

That was sort of my point (or at least part of it) earlier. Staroslavenksi (aka Church Slavonic) is not a vernacular (never was, actually), but it is the traditional liturgical language of the Slav Byzantine Churches. And because of what it is, its use is very different from that of the “national language” of any individual group.

Did I suggest everything always be done in staroslavenski? No. Even though it’s not the “local vernacular” of any given place, however, its use, to whatever extent, reinforces the ties with the tradition that gave rise of a particular Church. It’s analogous to the Melkite’s (and AOC) use of some Greek, or the Copts of some Coptic, or the Syriacs (including the Syro-Malankara), and Chaldeans (and ACoE) and Syro-Malabars of at least some Syriac.

 

[malphono]

That was quite my point before; I take issue with the fact newly immigrated Maronites demand everything in Arabic so Maronite Churches become “half way houses” (as one priest put it) for immigrants - the next generation generally has no interest to go to a liturgy they can’t understand or even read. Arabic is neither our vernacular in the US nor is it our liturgical language, so I have particular distaste to its excessive use in an Anglophone country. One thing is certain is if I was a priest I definitely wouldn’t ever use Arabic (apart from the fact my Arabic reading speed is analogous to a five year old).

This is quite true, yet the Maronites have enforced the use of the Arabic texts as the foundation of any and all translations into the various languages of the diaspora. This at the expense of the traditional Syriac (which texts themselves, when they are published at all these days have, as you know, been altered in places to one or another degree but I digress).

Personally, whereas I much prefer to use the “real thing” (in this case, Syriac), I don’t mind the use of a little Arabic here and there. At least I don’t mind the “old” Arabic versions of various prayers and hymns. The “new” stuff is another story completely.