"Our Father" Handholding/Refusal of Sign of Peace

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CarolAnnSFO:
I’m wondering, did we even get the hand-holding thing from Vatican II? Or was it just something that somebody made up along the way?
I read on the Adoremus website that it was a gesture originally started in Alcoholics Anonymous, and picked up by the charismatic movement within the Church. But I’m not sure how they determined this.

adoremus.org/0903Posture.html
 
I’ve never have seen anyone over here holding hands during the Our Father, and I hope we don’t.
If we do I for one won’t be taking part in it regardless of who doesn’t like me, sorry it’s not for me.
As for the sign of peace, if someone offeres me their hand, I’ll take it, but I think it’s not sincere, so don’t much care for it.
 
Thanks for all the good replies. Just to clarify, I was the one who was refused the sign of peace, in fact angrily warned repeatedly not to attempt it. I would have cheerfully offered the peace to the woman, and instead sheepishly offered it to the pew behind us as she berated me. I did not even so much refuse to hold hands but rather did not realize until the end of the prayer that that’s what the elbow-to-ribcage maneuver was for. I was shocked that someone would refuse the sign of peace in open anger when Scripture is so direct on this. My reaction to this event was considerable irritation that this woman was so openly pursuing her liturgical agenda, damn the consequences. I dislike the hand-holding bit because, in addition to the theological reasons elucidated in posts above, it’s always a little too intimate and sometimes just gross. A reverent Our Father takes some time, and a sweaty stranger’s palm is not what I would most like to hold for this period. I am not fastidious–as a counselor I have always hugged and shook hands with patients even when they were on the ward many days from a shower. But I prefer not to practice psychotherapy right before Holy Communion!😃
 
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jleary:
I agree with Allen537. While it is an individual’s choice to hold hands, it is also, unfortunately, an individual choice to react to people in an inappropriate manner. With Christ present on the altar, and an individual wanting in their own way to share that love with you, your subsequent reaction will go a long way in showing Christ where you are in your journey in the desert. I fully respect anyone who chooses not to hold hands, but please don’t think any less of the people who may want to share what they believe is Christ’s love…It was Christ who was “moved with compassion” for others, never denying His love, and always willing to share…St Peter said “You are a chose race a royal priesthood”…everyone one of us…
Some find it distracting to hold hands or think that it takes away from the Mass. Well, it sounds to me like people are being distracted by the confusion of “do we hold hands or not?” Or the “I like to hold hands but the person next to me doesn’t.” I agree we need to have clarification from the Holy Father.
 
The clarification is there. We’re not to hold hands during the Our Father. It symbolizes a communitarian unity that is reserved for the Kiss of Peace.
 
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jleary:
With Christ present on the altar, and an individual wanting in their own way to share that love with you, your subsequent reaction will go a long way in showing Christ where you are in your journey in the desert. I fully respect anyone who chooses not to hold hands, but please don’t think any less of the people who may want to share what they believe is Christ’s love…It was Christ who was “moved with compassion” for others, never denying His love, and always willing to share…St Peter said “You are a chose race a royal priesthood”…everyone one of us…
So is it all about Christ or all about the person who wants to “share the love”. Where is the compassion for those who want to commune with Our Lord at this time?
In my last parish, we went from the Orans position to holding hands and raising them up. It started with a few and became the norm.
If someone wanted to “share the love” by giving you a big smootchie kiss, would that be okay too?
How about if we make the fellowship after Mass and concentrate on Our Lord.
Again, give me any other situation where we are told to hold hands for an extended length of time?
 
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BillyT92679:
The clarification is there. We’re not to hold hands during the Our Father. It symbolizes a communitarian unity that is reserved for the Kiss of Peace.
Yes, however it is apparent that not everyone is clear on it. Some people just don’t know and I feel it should be addressed. There has been hand holding during the Our Father in EVERY parish I have ever attended including the parish I attend now. Some priests do it for crying out loud! :crying:
 
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Jesus4Me:
Yes, however it is apparent that not everyone is clear on it. Some people just don’t know and I feel it should be addressed. There has been hand holding during the Our Father in EVERY parish I have ever attended including the parish I attend now. Some priests do it for crying out loud! :crying:
Amen!
 
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BillyT92679:
The clarification is there. We’re not to hold hands during the Our Father. It symbolizes a communitarian unity that is reserved for the Kiss of Peace.
Would you please cite the source from which you got this? I’m not calling you a liar, I would just like to know where you found this.
 
Can’t the sign of peace be at the beginning of the Mass, rather than the HORRIBLE time it has been placed (right before Agnus Dei)??

As for the hand-holding during Our Father, it’s disallowed by the GIRM. But beyond that, it is a prayer UPWARDS. Christ, when he taught the prayer to his disciples…I don’t think he held their hands.
 
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jlw:
That’s not entirely true, and you know it.
I think you are taking what I said out context. I was showing the differences between Catholics and protestants. Not the difference between liberal Cathoics and those of us who practice the Orthodox Catholic faith. Liberals would love to see changes in how we celebrate the Mass. The point I was making is that it is what we believe, not how we worship, that seperates us from our protestant brethern. I will concede that we do worship differently than protestants, but that is not what truly seperates us.
 
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Allen537:
I think you are taking what I said out context. I was showing the differences between Catholics and protestants. Not the difference between liberal Cathoics and those of us who practice the Orthodox Catholic faith. Liberals would love to see changes in how we celebrate the Mass. The point I was making is that it is what we believe, not how we worship, that seperates us from our protestant brethern. I will concede that we do worship differently than protestants, but that is not what truly seperates us.
Ok, but our Faith is sacramental faith. That is, it is a faith of OUTWARD SIGNS. So while your point is well taken, you can’t ignore the visible WAY we worship, the visible actionable WAYS in which we show reverence, the visible WAY we focus on the altar, (rather than the congregation) at the high point of the Mass. Does that make sense??
 
OK, I’ll concede. I will agree with you on that. Now, what are we going to do about the people who think even a hand shake at that time is bad, not necessary and “goofy”. Much less a kiss.

The real point of everyones objections seems to always come back to being uncomfortable with having to physically touch a stranger.

I asked a fellow catechist at the school his take on this, he’s old school and used to be in the PiusX society. He admitted that it just made him uncomfortable to touch and hold hands. He wasn’t used to it. He has that right and I would never want to make him or anyone uncomfortable. He couldn’t really say he thought it was that irreverent.
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BillyT92679:
The clarification is there. We’re not to hold hands during the Our Father. It symbolizes a communitarian unity that is reserved for the Kiss of Peace.
 
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dumspirospero:
The real harm is that it is not proper and is not called for in the GIRM…therefore it shouldn’t take place…also, that is the kind of stuff you see in a protestant church…if we are going to turn the Mass into a protestant style worship service, then I don’t see why I had to leave the Baptists to spend a year in RCIA, so I could become Catholic…
I agree 100%. As a “cradle Catholic” who has returned after many years away, I find myself distracted by the changes in the Mass itself and the general demeanor of those attending the Mass.

When I try to explain this to my wife she tells me that I’m “too focused on the rituals and ceremonies and should focus more on living right and the message. Maybe when you get your own spiritual house in order then you can focus on the superficial trappings of the Church.” :bigyikes: And this from a nice Catholic girl who used to be in the Legion of Mary.

Frankly the ‘message’ in the homily is usually pretty thin and to my thinking the “ritual and ceremony” is part of being Catholic. If it weren’t for the incense, holy water, blessing ourselves, genuflecting, statues of the saints, stations of the cross, the crucifix, the Rosary, 40 hours devotion, kneelers, alter boys, votives, confession, bells during the consecration, etc, etc we’d be just another garden variety brand of Christianity. That’s why I love to watch the Mass on EWTN. Such a beautiful church and the Mass is done ‘right’. :bowdown: The ‘superficial trappings’ are reminders that we are honoring our Lord who is present at each and every sacremental celebratin of the Mass. I’m not just sitting in a chair listening to a guy give his weekly interpretation of a few bible verses. :yawn:

To get back on topic, I too refuse to hold hands during the Our Father. You did nothing wrong and the woman was quite rude to you.

Mike
 
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travellinmike:
That’s why I love to watch the Mass on EWTN. Such a beautiful church and the Mass is done ‘right’. :bowdown: The ‘superficial trappings’ are reminders that we are honoring our Lord who is present at each and every sacremental celebratin of the Mass. I’m not just sitting in a chair listening to a guy give his weekly interpretation of a few bible verses. :yawn:

Mike
Hey Mike. What does your wife think of the EWTN mass? Just curious.
If you are ever in Detroit, visit here…
saintcyrils.org
We have all the bells and whistles with a little Latin sprinkled in.
Sunday we have May Crowning with the First Communicants in blue capes, 40 hours in June and Corpus Christi next month.
We are EWTN right in my backyard!
 
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jlw:
Ok, but our Faith is sacramental faith. That is, it is a faith of OUTWARD SIGNS. So while your point is well taken, you can’t ignore the visible WAY we worship, the visible actionable WAYS in which we show reverence, the visible WAY we focus on the altar, (rather than the congregation) at the high point of the Mass. Does that make sense??
I see what you are saying. And you make a very good point. It is here where my experiences come into play. I have never seen the joining of hands to be a distraction during the Mass. Others may, and that’s fine, but personally I have never been faced with that dilemma. I see the joining of the hands during the Our Father the same way the Church saw, that with the preist turned away from the congregation, that we all (preist and congergation) joined together in offering the Sacrifice of the Mass. So it’s another way of everyone as a community offering up the Scarifice of the Mass.
 
netmil(name removed by moderator):
Hey Mike. What does your wife think of the EWTN mass? Just curious.
If you are ever in Detroit, visit here…
saintcyrils.org
We have all the bells and whistles with a little Latin sprinkled in.
Sunday we have May Crowning with the First Communicants in blue capes, 40 hours in June and Corpus Christi next month.
We are EWTN right in my backyard!
She won’t watch it. when she walks through the room I’ll point out something like, “see this is how Mass is supposed to be done.” My sweetie replies with a snarky “maybe you should be out acting like a Christian instead of hiding in here watching it on TV.” :mad:

she says I’m being brainwashed. I tell her that maybe my brain needs a good scrubbing. 😃

Anyway you’ve got a beautiful church. I do get to Detroit a few times a year. In Kansas City there is a Croatian Catholic church my neighbors go to that supposed to be quite traditional. I keep meaning to visit and someday I will.

Mike
 
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travellinmike:
She won’t watch it. when she walks through the room I’ll point out something like, “see this is how Mass is supposed to be done.” My sweetie replies with a snarky “maybe you should be out acting like a Christian instead of hiding in here watching it on TV.” :mad:

she says I’m being brainwashed. I tell her that maybe my brain needs a good scrubbing. 😃

Anyway you’ve got a beautiful church. I do get to Detroit a few times a year. In Kansas City there is a Croatian Catholic church my neighbors go to that supposed to be quite traditional. I keep meaning to visit and someday I will.

Mike
I’m so sorry. She has the Modernist thread in her. But we love them as they are. My hubby is a Presbyterian and doesn’t understand any of what my girls and I do. (although I catch him talking to his family like an old catholic, bragging about knowing some Latin).
Do go to the Croation Church! It is such a joy to go to Holy Mass, and Holy is what it is!
 
The point that some hand-holders don’t get is how rude and selfish they are being. It’s all about them, how they feel, how it makes their little hearts go pitter-patter to be part of such a welcoming “faith community”…blah, blah, blah. It never occurs to them that someone else may not share their feelings.

Typical American response: It’s all about ME!

Stand firm, my non-hand-holding brethren. God is on our side. (Hey, if the hand-holders can claim Him, I can too!) :whistle:
 
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