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Bill_Pick
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simplynoone, Who do think Jesus is,do you believe He is God. Just what do you think about Jesus and who He isYou seem to only be “moved” by self interest.
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simplynoone
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I was not born until 2,000 years later. In fact, I was an “oops” baby, so had BC been effective like expected, I would not even be here. How in the heck could he have died for me. And this kind of attitude is**You gotta be kidding me. **I feel the pain of my/your Savior, and I only care about Him. If others died the same way as on the Cross, SO BE IT, because no one and I repeat NO ONE SUFFERED MORE THAN JESUS CHRIST FOR YOU AND FOR ME. You can undermine it all you want to and use excuse after excuse which is pathetic, but Jesus died a horrific death and for you, yet you still don’t get it…
. You only care because you are mystical and think he died for you. Geesh! How would you feel if one of your family members were beaten, nailed to a cross, and left to suffer FOR DAYS? How upset it would it make you to hear someone say “So be it… they did not die for me so who cares?”
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simplynoone
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NO!!! God is not a man! Hosea 11:9. Jesus was a man, so therefore he COULD NOT HAVE BEEN God.
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Bill_Pick
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JESUS IS GOD And one of these days You will understand…And Jesus come into the world to save you and me and again one of these days you will understand.
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simplynoone
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You are so sure I am wrong. Yet, I will still put my hope in God and in His Word, which is clear : Hosea 11:9, I Sam 15:29, Num 23:19, and Job 9:32. I have only one Saviour and it is God; not a man.
Psa 108:12 (for vain is the help of man)
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Bill_Pick
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Jesus is god
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Bill_Pick
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The OT was written B4 Christ come to this earth.Read the NT and learn about Your Lord He did die on the cross for You and Me,just like the soldiers in WW2 fighting for your freedom and you may have not been born yet but it was to keep you free,
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simplynoone
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Well, you may have gotten it right this time. Jesus may be your god, but I only have one God and He is NOT a man. I find this comforting because man is finite in every sense of the word. God is infinite in everything.
The Tanakh is not Old to those who put their trust in God. By the way, the story that is attributed to Jesus was around LONG before the NT was written… it originated in Egypt; and therefore when the NOW Testament (the Tanakh) refers to those putting their trust in Pharaoh and in Egypt, it is referring to you.
If one must trust in Jesus as though he were God for him to be their Lord, why then do you call him my Lord when I am telling you quite clearly that I do not put that trust in him. His teachings that are supported by the Tanakh are all that I find relevant and familiar. His status as God is not familiar or accepted by me.
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guanophore
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Have you never had anyone do something for you that you did not deserve, and could not earn, just out of love? If so, did you not feel deeply grateful?You seem to only be “moved” by self interest.
It is in human nature to be moved by self interest, however, it does not meant that the gruesome death of crucifixion does not move people. If it were not for the sacrifice of Christ, we might not even know about this horrible practice, and the hundreds of thousands that suffered because of it.
Even for them, we will feel sympathy on the basis that is could have been us, or someone we loved that suffered. It is human nature.
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guanophore
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Yes to all these questions. There were many who were badly torturned, some for days before the crucifixion. Some did walk for miles, fall, were stabbed, etc. The crown of thorns was peculiar to Christ most likely, but the Roman soldiers delighted in having a chance to entertain themselves at the expense of the condemned. The procedure recorded in the gospels, that of breaking the legs and stabbing the victims was also common. Some did suffer on the cross for days before they finally succumbed of exposure, blood loss, or asphyxiation.
You make a good point, though, Jesus was not deserving of this cruel death, and one of the reasons that his suffering was shorter than most is that He had the power to lay down His life, and to take it up again.
There are many ills in the world suffered that Jesus did not suffer. There are none who deserved less to suffer.
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simplynoone
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I think that it is good to realize this barbaric act was brought to light. In that sense, sure… salvation from ignorance that a man should have to suffer and die for 1) his race 2) his religion 3) TO COVER OUR SINS could be the lesson here. I know it was for me. When my eyes were opened that God’s way was not sacrifices of flesh and blood, I was GREATLY moved by his love for mankind. I am very moved by ALL of those who have suffered and died because man’s ways have been perverted to this horrific level. Jesus is not at all exempt from my compassion for what he went through… but it has nothing to do with me conjuring up an image of this being a sacrifice of God to God. That makes no sense and is not consistent with the Tanakh.
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simplynoone
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So, the little babies whose skin is hanging loose from their very visible rib cages are more deserving of their sufferings?
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OneTrueCathApos
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You just don’t get it do you. **To most Christians, Jesus IS LIKE ONE OF THEIR FAMILY. **They FEEL his pain, some to the point that whenever Good Friday rolls around some are inconceivably crying. Just like as if it were a loss to the family.I was not born until 2,000 years later. In fact, I was an “oops” baby, so had BC been effective like expected, I would not even be here. How in the heck could he have died for me. And this kind of attitude is
I did not say “So be it, they didn’t die for me”, I simply don’t give it a thought. I only concentrate on the Passion of your Savior, and how HE was treated. If you have a problem with that, well, I simply don’t care. YOU WERE NOT BORN THEN WERE YOU. YOU DID NOT SEE THE PAIN OF JESUS AND HIS MOTHER DID YOU. YOU WERE NOT THERE.
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OneTrueCathApos
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“Were you there when they crucified my Lord” guanaphore? No one was made to wear a crown of thorns then. They made one for Jesus Christ because he said he was the King of the Jews. So you are wrong. To EVEN undermine the death of Christ amongst you is pretty pathetic.
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O.S.Luke
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There is nothing particularly “easy” about ANY cruficixion - and the Romans and Persians (and I am sure others) administered crucifixions from about the 5th c. B.C. until Constantine became the Roman emperor. I remember reading in the Works of Josephus about him witnessing crucifixions when soldiers nailed people to crosses just for the heck of it, breaking their legs and leaving folks to hang for days as they died slowly - either by dehydration, bleeding out, exhaustion from having a wooden block hung from their legs, or scourging. It must have been horrifying to witness - which is why governments and armies utilized them to keep folks in line.
Of course Jesus died horribly - and worse, he was an innocent man sentenced by a mob and a government official who didn’t have the cojones to stand up (by law, the religious leaders couldn’t pronounce a death sentence). No one deserves suffering like that. Neither do we deserve the grace Christ gives us through his death and resurrection.
Perhaps we should all remember that. And not just during Holy Week, either.
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Of course Jesus died horribly - and worse, he was an innocent man sentenced by a mob and a government official who didn’t have the cojones to stand up (by law, the religious leaders couldn’t pronounce a death sentence). No one deserves suffering like that. Neither do we deserve the grace Christ gives us through his death and resurrection.
Perhaps we should all remember that. And not just during Holy Week, either.
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simplynoone
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I am unsure why you insist on calling him my saviour. I 100% accept God as my ONLY Saviour. Isaiah 43:3-15 Understand that the words spoken in there are to me and I will not give my praise to anyone but God… not a man and not an image of a flesh and blood sacrifice. Quit glorying yourself in the blood of the people the I love… .quit using that as though it could really cover the state you are in. We are human… and therefore, another human (flesh and blood) CANNOT SAVE YOU! You have elevated flesh and blood to the status of God. That is worshiping an image. Do not think that I have not seen the pain… Just because I may not have seen Jesus and his mother personally, they are human and I HAVE witnessed such suffering all across this globe. It is no less intolerable to see a mother who has no milk in her breast to feed her starving baby because she is starving herself… meanwhile the churches glorify themselves in all their riches and fatness. Do not presume to tell me that your worshiping a man is doing anything to save anyone. It is that kind of ignorance that allows for the horrors in the world to continue. Have you not realized yet that the lesson is supposed to be that MAN CANNOT SAVE US??? 2,000 years and one would think the lesson would start to dawn a bit more brilliantly already. 
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Bill_Pick
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simplynonne,Have you ever read any thing about the crucifixion,do you see how bad it was,and how the romans did it and bwy are you a jew or a athesist,dead is dead and after three days He was Alive again and no man can do this but GOD can and did…was you born B4 Roe and wade if so you can thank god for that. I also see you call God your savior…WHYSo, the little babies whose skin is hanging loose from their very visible rib cages are more deserving of their sufferings?
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simplynoone
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uhm… I grew up in Christianity… trust me, from my earliest childhood memories they were grounding it into our heads what Crucifixion entailed. And me, being a very empathetic person, well, it impacted me greatly. But it was not only empathy that I felt for Jesus. It was empathy for all of those who died in this manner simply because they were Jews. As to him being raised from the dead, this is against the Laws of Nature (albeit, there have been cases where people have SEEMINGLY been raised from the dead, but now we have a better idea of why)… God said in Malachi 3:6 that he would not change. This is why He is my Saviour. Because I now have the assurance that anything that is stated in the Tanakh is going to be consistent with how God works. Understand though that most of the stories in the Tanakh are derived from mythologies. Yup! This is how I finally came to understand the story of Jesus and how to read it… rather than taking it literally, I read how I read the Tanakh. It is like the Creation story… it is an allegory using an ancient mythological belief spun in such a way to show how God is STILL creating and this concept is understood when one reads Isaiah 42-48. God is brilliant… How could you even ask me why I would call Him my Saviour?? Because He is… Proverbs 2:1-7 He kept His promise to me by giving me understanding that I had been crying out for and searching for. This is more than I ever got from a human sacrifice.
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guanophore
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I knew you were going to say that!So, the little babies whose skin is hanging loose from their very visible rib cages are more deserving of their sufferings?
I was thinking about the innocent that suffer. However, we are all condemned to suffering and death by default, because we suffer the consequences of disobedience of Adam and Eve. These consequences are clear in the book of Genesis. Those children did not commit personal sins, to deserve punishment, as did many of those who were crucified (although not all were guilty of what they were accused). Yet, we are all born into the world under the condemnation of death. They suffer as part of the human race.
I am curious, simply, what religion do you practice? Some of your statements sound Jewish, but I am confused why you would be on a Catholic forum?
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Bill_Pick
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Yes it is , this is against the Laws of Nature ,HE IS GODuhm… I grew up in Christianity… trust me, from my earliest childhood memories they were grounding it into our heads what Crucifixion entailed. And me, being a very empathetic person, well, it impacted me greatly. But it was not only empathy that I felt for Jesus. It was empathy for all of those who died in this manner simply because they were Jews. As to him being raised from the dead, this is against the Laws of Nature (albeit, there have been cases where people have SEEMINGLY been raised from the dead, but now we have a better idea of why)… God said in Malachi 3:6 that he would not change. This is why He is my Saviour. Because I now have the assurance that anything that is stated in the Tanakh is going to be consistent with how God works. Understand though that most of the stories in the Tanakh are derived from mythologies. Yup! This is how I finally came to understand the story of Jesus and how to read it… rather than taking it literally, I read how I read the Tanakh. It is like the Creation story… it is an allegory using an ancient mythological belief spun in such a way to show how God is STILL creating and this concept is understood when one reads Isaiah 42-48. God is brilliant… How could you even ask me why I would call Him my Saviour?? Because He is… Proverbs 2:1-7 He kept His promise to me by giving me understanding that I had been crying out for and searching for. This is more than I ever got from a human sacrifice.
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