Our Next President

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iamrefreshed said:
Please don’t resort to proving your point with silly things like facts!😃
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Does the occurrence of multiple facts at the same time, imply that one of those ‘facts’ caused the other?

I mean, if more babies were born in 2008-2012 than were born in Bush’s first term, does that mean Obama is anti-contraception?
 
seekerz said:
Does the occurrence of multiple facts at the same time, imply that one of those ‘facts’ caused the other?

I mean, if more babies were born in 2008-2012 than were born in Bush’s first term, does that mean Obama is anti-contraception?
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Are you denying that the Obama admin opposes any and all laws that restrict abortion?

You speak of both intent and actions. Under these terms, Pres. Obama has been the most pro-abortion President during my lifetime.
 
seekerz said:
Oh, so if I say reproductive health is a term that can mean anything to anyone, would that mean we could stop talking about it?
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Actually, yes, “Reproductive health” is somewhat meaningless.

It is used by one contingent as a cover for abortion and contraception, but to fight it, as stated, sounds like something negative. It is much better to drop the term and say what you mean.

ICXC NIKA
 
qui_est_ce said:
Sorry Rich. You were responding to Bellasbane’s diatribe about us evil conservatives who don’t care about the poor. I guess I misdirected my post. :o
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Well, somebody has to do it!

Generally, the diatribes all come from the right, which makes this forum soooo boring.:sleep:

Furthermore, I don’t recall calling conservatives “evil” nor do I stoop to the level of questioning anybody’s faithfulness as a Catholic simply because they do not agree with my political beliefs.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Oh? What about the sometimes hundreds of thousands of dollars in bills they can accumulate? Also, the amount of “free” is limited. Catholic hospitals in NYC, e.g., have gone out of business providing care to those without insurance. Personal responsibility goes just so far if you are hit with a catastrophic illness or injury and you have no insurance or no large amount of funds accumulated.
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If anything catastrophic is the only thing that should be covered, yet with government bureaucratic waste and the determination to cover every scrape with a 10,000 dollar band aid we will end closing more than just the Catholic hospitals. When the government is going to force them to accept 500 bucks for something that cost the hospital 1,000 to provide they will be right behind them.

The easy answer is to get government involved, it will only lead to things getting much worse than they are now.
 
bellasbane said:
Well, somebody has to do it!

Generally, the diatribes all come from the right, which makes this forum soooo boring.:sleep:

Furthermore, I don’t recall calling conservatives “evil” nor do I stoop to the level of questioning anybody’s faithfulness as a Catholic simply because they do not agree with my political beliefs.
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Nearly 1200 posts in less than a year is boring? What do you call fun?
 
scipio337 said:
Are you denying that the Obama admin opposes any and all laws that restrict abortion?

You speak of both intent and actions. Under these terms, Pres. Obama has been the most pro-abortion President during my lifetime.
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I believe Obama is on record stating that he believes the states have a right to put into place reasonable restrictions on abortion. So far, the justice department has not challenged any of the anti-abortion legislation recently enacted by the states.
 
bellasbane said:
The Judgement of the Nations (Mt 25: 31-46) is not a judgement of individuals. It is a collective judgement of various groups of people. “…all the nations will be assembled before him.”
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Yes, all the people of the world. Nations are earthly institutions, and thus will receive earthly chastisement. I believe we are being chastised now.

Haydocks commentary:
haydock:
Shall the king say to them . . on his right hand. By setting forth to all the world the good works of his faithful servants, the Sovereign Judge silences the murmurs of the reprobate, who might otherwise object that they had it not in their power to do good. In the same manner, the conduct of the wise virgins was the condemnation of the foolish ones; the diligence of the faithful servant, of the sloth and drunkenness of the idle one; the zeal of the servants who multiplied the talents entrusted to them, of him that hid his talent in the ground; and the fervour of the observers of the commandments, of the negligence and remissness of those who are ever transgressing them. S. Chrys. hom. lxxx. — These works of mercy, says S. Austin, prevail towards life everlasting, and to the blotting out of former sins; in Ps. xlix.
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Bellasbane:
As Catholics, we are responsible for shaping our nation according to the principles of our faith. That includes creating a government that takes a active role in promoting social and economic justice for all. We are far from achieving that, but that does not mean we are correct in abdicating our collective responsibility and embracing individualism or free market capitalism as a solution.

I believe this is what Cardinal Timothy Dolan meant when he said:

O’REILLY: Does the Catholic Church want to be a player in the American politics?

DOLAN: Yes. Well, the Catholic Church wants its people to be a player in the American politics, all right. 28 percent of the population of the United States are Catholics, ok and the Catholic Church through them, you bet, wants to have – want to have a say in the direction of our beloved country.
**
To think that there is a Berlin Wall between one’s religious convictions and one’s political activity is crazy, it’s ludicrous. It’s not only non-Catholic, non-Christian, non-biblical, it is also un-American.** Because – you’re a better historian than I am Bill, you know that every great movement in – in American history has been driven by people of religious conviction.
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So you agree with Rick Santorum that Kennedy’s “separation of church and state” should be repugnant to Catholics.
And if we duct tape the churches – I’m just not talking about the Catholic Church – if we duct tape the role of religion and the churches and morally convince people in the marketplace that’s going to lead to a huge deficit a huge void. And there are many people who want to fill it up, namely a new religion called secularism, ok, which – which would be as doctrinaire and would consider itself as infallible as they caricature the other religions doing.
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So to – to see – to see that morally-driven religiously-convinced people want to exercise their political responsibility, I think that is not only at the heart of biblical religion, it is at the heart of American enterprise.
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Read more: foxnews.com/on-air/oreilly/2012/03/29/timothy-cardinal-dolan-enters-no-spin-zone#ixzz1qu4SPSO3
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Dolan is saying that the “morally convincing people in the marketplace” will create a void that will be filled with a new religion called secularism. This is a critique of those who would argue that unfettered free market capitalism is the solution to all of our nations problems.
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Never once did I or any poster on this thread mention anything about unfettered capitalism. What you are doing is called “strawman” you set up imaginary positions by conservatives and then attack them as fact and proof that conservatives are evil haters. :confused:.
The Church does not agree with this and supports the idea of taxation and income redistribution in order to provide for the general welfare of all members of society.
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All this is best achieved via the local community, not the federal government.
 
Bocephus said:
Nearly 1200 posts in less than a year is boring? What do you call fun?
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Challenging my Catholic brothers and sisters **and being challenged in return! **

We are all on this faith journey together after all. 🙂
 
_Abyssinia said:
There is no separation for caring for the poor and life and family issues.
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In American politics there most certainly is - not saying it should be so - just saying…

How else could someone be pro-life, pro-family and anti-just about everything else that a family needs to exist: the ability to influence just wages, to obtain education fit for earning a livelihood, to remain healthy without going bankrupt, to get assistance when unable to earn/work, to find jobs making the products they use daily…
 
scipio337 said:
Are you denying that the Obama admin opposes any and all laws that restrict abortion?

You speak of both intent and actions. Under these terms, Pres. Obama has been the most pro-abortion President during my lifetime.
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Has he acted against all the laws being put in place to restrict abortion? “Most pro-abortion” is obviously a personal conclusion. I have a different opinion, but then pro-life to me doesn’t just mean anti-abortion even when I consider ONLY the unborn.
 
I voted “other” but I do not want Ron Paul to be nominated.

I don’t like any of the remaining candidates that much, but having a President who really hates what this nation stands for and the principles it is based on, is like being trapped in a dystopian novel.

ABO.
 
TheRealJuliane said:
I voted “other” but I do not want Ron Paul to be nominated.

I don’t like any of the remaining candidates that much, but having a President who really hates what this nation stands for and the principles it is based on, is like being trapped in a dystopian novel.

ABO.
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I don’t like Paul much either but that is because he is the kind of extremist who will get steamrolled by Obama.

The days of frontiersmen and laissez-faire capitalists are over. We as a political body need to understand that.

A Paul nomination would be the baton wave for Obamian Rhapsody encore.

ICXC NIKA
 
seekerz said:
In American politics there most certainly is - not saying it should be so - just saying…

How else could someone be pro-life, pro-family and anti-just about everything else that a family needs to exist: the ability to influence just wages, to obtain education fit for earning a livelihood, to remain healthy without going bankrupt, to get assistance when unable to earn/work, to find jobs making the products they use daily…
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I’ve never heard anyone here stating they were against everything you just posted after your highlighted word exist. It is just more hyperbole.

What I have heard is those who don’t support forcible union dues…or support Affirmative Action…or support Obamacare…or support unfettered and unending welfare.
 
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