Our Pope says Mercy comes before Judgment

[oppositeman]

Pope Francis said yesterday evening that mercy comes before judgment. This seems to be a legitimate story since it has been picked up by several mainstream media sources.

It seems to me that this is backward. Wouldn’t God have to judge you first and then decide whether or not you are worthy of His mercy? At best, it seems to me, a broad statement like this could be easily misunderstood. washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-latest-tens-of-thousands-gather-for-popes-fatima-visit/2017/05/12/1a55596c-371e-11e7-ab03-aa29f656f13e_story.html?utm_term=.69c7103d95c0

 

[meltzerboy]

Pope Francis said yesterday evening that mercy comes before judgment. This seems to be a legitimate story since it has been picked up by several mainstream media sources.

It seems to me that this is backward. Wouldn’t God have to judge you first and then decide whether or not you are worthy of His mercy? At best, it seems to me, a broad statement like this could be easily misunderstood. washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-latest-tens-of-thousands-gather-for-popes-fatima-visit/2017/05/12/1a55596c-371e-11e7-ab03-aa29f656f13e_story.html?utm_term=.69c7103d95c0

I don’t think Pope Francis meant that mercy comes before judgment in terms of chronological order. He probably meant that mercy is more vital than judgment since it is a divine trait.

 

[USMC_Convert]

Well as the present time is often called the time of mercy, perhaps what he means is during this life there is mercy, unlimited, absolute, fathomless Divine Mercy for any and every one no matter what, however, once you die there is judgement so make best of the time you have…

 

[MrZoom]

“Mercy triumphs over judgment” is from scripture; see James 2:13.

For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment. James 2:13, NAB

 

[josh987654321]

Pope Francis said yesterday evening that mercy comes before judgment. This seems to be a legitimate story since it has been picked up by several mainstream media sources.

It seems to me that this is backward. Wouldn’t God have to judge you first and then decide whether or not you are worthy of His mercy? At best, it seems to me, a broad statement like this could be easily misunderstood. washingtonpost.com/world/europe/the-latest-tens-of-thousands-gather-for-popes-fatima-visit/2017/05/12/1a55596c-371e-11e7-ab03-aa29f656f13e_story.html?utm_term=.69c7103d95c0

Jesus to St Faustina -
**
“[Let] the greatest sinners place their trust in My mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy. My daughter, write about My mercy towards tormented souls. Souls that make an appeal to My mercy delight Me. To such souls I grant even more graces than they ask. I cannot punish even the greatest sinner if he makes an appeal to My compassion, but on the contrary, I justify him in My unfathomable and inscrutable mercy. Write: before I come as a just Judge, I first open wide the door of My mercy. He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice…”** (Diary, 1146)

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[JPUSC]

Speaking of Fatima…

Lucia asked about the other girl, who was aged around eighteen or nineteen: “And Amelia?”

This time, Our Lady said: “She will be in Purgatory until the end of the world.”

Hmmm, poor girl is still in purgatory as we speak. Bet her sins weren’t as serious as adultery.

He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Mark 10:10-12

 

[oppositeman]

I don’t think Pope Francis meant that mercy comes before judgment in terms of chronological order. He probably meant that mercy is more vital than judgment since it is a divine trait.

Isn’t judgment also a divine trait? Isn’t repentance a prerequisite to God’s mercy? He should speak more clearly, I think.

 

[Church_Militant]

He’s spot on according to the New Testament which says in James 2 :13 For the judgment is merciless to one who has not shown mercy; mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[oppositeman]

Well as the present time is often called the time of mercy, perhaps what he means is during this life there is mercy, unlimited, absolute, fathomless Divine Mercy for any and every one no matter what, however, once you die there is judgement so make best of the time you have…

Our church has always taught that God gives His mercy to the repentant heart - I think he should have made that clear - He shouldn’t assume, I think, that people know this - although we should - repentance first then mercy.

 

[oppositeman]

Mercy is a prerequisite for divine judgement, otherwise it can become cruelty, and God is not cruel.

I think anytime we speak of God’s mercy we need to make it clear that God expects heartfelt repentance first - we have always been taught that God does not show mercy to the unrepentant soul - and the bible backs that up.

 

[oppositeman]

“Mercy triumphs over judgment” is from scripture; see James 2:13.

so it is - however let us keep in mind that God does not give His mercy to unrepentant souls - we have always been taught this - our Pope perhaps should have said something like - “Mercy triumphs over judgment for the repentant soul” - it’s too bad he left that part out.

 

[oppositeman]

Jesus to St Faustina -
**
“[Let] the greatest sinners place their trust in My mercy. They have the right before others to trust in the abyss of My mercy. My daughter, write about My mercy towards tormented souls. Souls that make an appeal to My mercy delight Me. To such souls I grant even more graces than they ask. I cannot punish even the greatest sinner if he makes an appeal to My compassion, but on the contrary, I justify him in My unfathomable and inscrutable mercy. Write: before I come as a just Judge, I first open wide the door of My mercy. He who refuses to pass through the door of My mercy must pass through the door of My justice…”** (Diary, 1146)

I hope this has helped

God Bless You

Thank you for reading
Josh

What bothers me about our Pope’s statement is that we have always been taught that God’s mercy is for the repentant soul and he did not make that part of his statement. He needs to be more careful with his words I think.

 

[oppositeman]

Speaking of Fatima…

Lucia asked about the other girl, who was aged around eighteen or nineteen: “And Amelia?”

This time, Our Lady said: “She will be in Purgatory until the end of the world.”

Hmmm, poor girl is still in purgatory as we speak. Bet her sins weren’t as serious as adultery.

He said to them, “Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her; and if she divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.”

Mark 10:10-12

I certainly agree with you.

 

[oppositeman]

Forgiveness requires repentance, but mercy is as an innate a quality of God as justice, otherwise He would be a devil. Mercy and forgiveness are not the same thing.

It seems to me that God forgiving us in sacramental confession is part of His mercy since that is why He sent Jesus to us. People throw around this idea of God’s mercy without giving it context - that seems dangerous to me.

 

[elohimrules]

I think the Pope definitely has the charism of Mercy as we see how much he loves the sick, handicap, elderly, etc. He is speaking from His own humanity, how he knows God. The pope is so merciful to others and he identifies so much with God’s mercy. He identifies with the fact that Jesus died to save the whole word and He wishes that not one should perish. This is my vibe about the situation

I also think that God’s heart breaks when he looses one soul to hell, when one soul wont turn to Him while there is a time of mercy. Sometimes His mercy wants to outweigh his justice but because He is God He must be equally just as well.

 

[Crusaderbear]

Well as the present time is often called the time of mercy, perhaps what he means is during this life there is mercy, unlimited, absolute, fathomless Divine Mercy for any and every one no matter what, however, once you die there is judgement so make best of the time you have…

That’s pretty deep fer a grunt! I agree!

 

[PluniaZ]

What bothers me about our Pope’s statement is that we have always been taught that God’s mercy is for the repentant soul and he did not make that part of his statement. He needs to be more careful with his words I think.

Stop bashing our Holy Father. He doesn’t need instruction from you. You need instruction from him.

 

[JPUSC]

1. We should no longer talk about people “living in sin.” In a sentence that reflects a new approach, the pope says clearly, “It can no longer simply be said that all those living in any ‘irregular situation’ are living in a state of mortal sin” (301). Other people in “irregular situations,” or non-traditional families, like single mothers, need to be offered “understanding, comfort and acceptance” (49). When it comes to these people, indeed everyone, the church need to stop applying moral laws, as if they were, in the pope’s vivid phrase, “stones to throw at a person’s life” (305).

stbedechadwellheath.co.uk/amorislaetitia.html

St. Jacinta of Fatima:

“The sins which cause most souls to go to Hell are the sins of the flesh.”

“To be pure of body is to keep chastity. To be pure in soul is not to commit sins, not look at what one should not see, not to steal, never to lie, always to tell the truth however hard it may be.”

“Fashions that will greatly offend Our Lord will appear. People who serve God should not follow fashions. The Church has no fashions. Our Lord is always the same.”

“Wars are nothing but punishments for the sins of the world.”

“Our Lady can no longer hold back the arm of her beloved Son from the world. It is necessary to do penance. If people change their ways, Our Lord will still spare the world; but if they do not, the chastisement will come.”

 

[johnnyc176]

Our church has always taught that God gives His mercy to the repentant heart - I think he should have made that clear - He shouldn’t assume, I think, that people know this - although we should - repentance first then mercy.

Yes liberals will use Pope Francis’ words or lack thereof to push their political agenda but one thing he has been quite clear on is the need to go to confession. Just a quick google search…

catholicherald.co.uk/news/2016/08/23/pope-francis-encounter-gods-mercy-in-confession/

lexicon-canonicum.org/english-articles/10-phrases-of-pope-francis-about-sacramental-confession/

catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2016/pope-extends-special-year-of-mercy-provisions-on-confession.cfm

catholicnews.com/services/englishnews/2016/sin-makes-us-blind-but-confession-heals-pope-says.cfm

Thanks for starting the thread. Pay no mind to accusations of ‘bashing the Pope’. The thread has developed into a nice discussion of mercy and judgment.

 

[oppositeman]

Seeing as how both mercy and justice are some of God’s defining attributes, I won’t presume to place limits on either of them, and I think doing so is even more dangerous.

well sir, you are confusing limits with context- they are 2 very different things.