Our school is imposing the rosary

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I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)
 
You seem to have a Protestant theme to your post “forcing children to say a repetitive prayer…” This makes it sound like there is something wrong with praying the rosary.

I would recommend praying the rosary and praying to Mary as an intercessor. I have seen miracles when I prayed to her. However, it took a miracle for me to start praying to her. Prior to that day, I may have sounded like you. I pray you get to know her.

“Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did.”
–Saint Maximilian Kolbe
 
No, there’s nothing wrong with the Rosary at all, if you pray it willingly.

Forcing children to pray in any form is immoral.

My style is to say something like, “Now, please offer a prayer for something or someone, or just to offer thanks to God. If you don’t want to pray, please think about how you might do something to help someone today.”

Now, I’m not presenting myself as a prayer guru, but how is the Rosary any better than this?

Here’s how it will play out, I think:

Scenario 1: Children pray the Rosary willingly and with good intentions. I have no problem with this.
**Scenario 2: **Children recite prayers, unwillingly and by rote, and forget the experience immediately. Point? None.
Scenario 3: Children willingly offer prayers for something personal and significant. If they choose not to pray, they might reflect on their lives and behaviour.
Scenario 4: Children don’t reflect on anything, and just sit there.

Under no scenario above is it my business to impose a form of spirituality on them; I can only encourage and provide the “space” for them to do it.

It’s a personal journey and I have no more insight than they do.
 
Why do you think they are praying the Rosary unwillingly? My children happily embrace all the devotions shown to them at Catholic school, particularly ones that seem lovely, fun, interesting, meaningful and so on. The children LOVE to participate in these activities that aren’t seen in public schools. The All Saint’s celebration, the May crowning, each class taking turns serving at school Mass- they take pride in their faith, which is WHY we send them to Catholic school in the first place. Learning to pray the Rosary, getting the feel for it, understanding how to meditate and what are the mysteries…I can’t see the problem here at all. At.All.
 
I am no theology expert. I only know that praying the rosary has worked for me. No one is forced in a private school—students are there by choice. I can only go by what you state, “They are forced.” What is forced? Are they being taught? Again, I do not have enough information or expertise to answer these questions or you concerns. If you have such a serious issue with them praying the rosary, this forum is not the best place for resolution. It would seem better to speak with the school officials.

I hope that you will pray the rosary, and clearly experience the love of Our Blessed Mother. My prayers are with you in your journey.

“The greatest saints, those richest in grace and virtue will be the most assiduous in praying to the most Blessed Virgin, looking up to her as the perfect model to imitate and as a powerful helper to assist them.”
–Saint Louis Marie de Montfort
 
I do not understand what you mean they are being forced to pray it. How ofen do they pray it? We gave each of the children in our religious ed program a rosary and we taught them to pray it. We had the third grade take part in a living Rosary. Mant of the parents, who never prayed the rosary, wanted to know more about it and said they want to pray it.

How much more are the kids being forced to learn and pray it as they are to learn this ridiculous common core math? How can praying to God be immoral? Many times I pray the Rosary by rote , lose my place and am not really into it, but Mary makes up for what is lacking in my prayer. I too prefer to pray in my own words, but when I can’t, or when I just need the comfort of repetitive prayer, the Rosary is there.

The children are in Catholic school and the Rosary is part if Catholic tradition… Many Catholic schools no longer put emphasis on our traditions like the Rosary, you shoul be happy yours does.
 
So, you all agree that insincere prayers are valid, that children should be educated in repetitive prayers, and that such prayers are as valid as any others.

I think I understand.

**Joannm: **You obviously missed the point. Being forced to pray is immoral.

“but Mary makes up for what is lacking in my prayer. I too prefer to pray in my own words, but when I can’t, or when I just need the comfort of repetitive prayer, the Rosary is there.”
This is a simplistic attitude. Do you mean that you can’t find the words to pray? Really?

savedbygrace71: thanks for the anecdotes about your children. Thanks.Very.Much.

All of you, please answer this: is Marian Devotion required of the faithful or not? Not just “highly recommended” or any other do-nothing expression. Is it required of the faithful?
 
hansard said:
savedbygrace71: thanks for the anecdotes about your children. Thanks.Very.Much.

All of you, please answer this: is Marian Devotion required of the faithful or not? Not just “highly recommended” or any other do-nothing expression. Is it required of the faithful?
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😃 Ha ha I guess I deserved that!! Anyway, no, as far as I know, any devotion is not required, just personal choice. But my kids are young, they don’t know yet what they will find fitting for their own devotions as time goes by. As for my seven year old, he has in fact asked to pray the Rosary, so for him, it’s not forced. But still, I’m curious, are your kids definitely being forced? Have they said to you, I don’t want to pray the Rosary but Mrs. Teacher is making me? I kind of wonder if it’s any different than making them go to Mass or memorizing the creeds. Or, other academics? For sure math homework is more drudgery than taking 20 minutes to pray the Rosary.

I know you are getting at the moral aspect. If you say to your children, if you aren’t feeling it to be in the prayer while the class is praying the Rosary, just quietly say the prayers and let the time go by. Nothing bad will happen for saying the words without feeling the devotion. Maybe other kids in the class are getting something out of it.
 
As far as I know, it is not required for all Catholics to have a devotion to Mary. However, I feel sorry for the people who do not.

You have truly missed the points provided here. Perhaps you should discuss this with the school administration and their (or your) priest.

I pray that Our Blessed Mother will provide you with the grace to understand.

"In dangers, in doubts, in difficulties, think of Mary, call upon Mary. Let not her name depart from your lips, never suffer it to leave your heart. And that you may obtain the assistance of her prayer, neglect not to walk in her footsteps. With her for guide, you shall never go astray; while invoking her, you shall never lose heart; so long as she is in your mind, you are safe from deception; while she holds your hand, you cannot fall; under her protection you have nothing to fear; if she walks before you, you shall not grow weary; if she shows you favor, you shall reach the goal."
–Saint Bernard of Clairvaux, Father and Doctor of the Church
 
It’s a Catholic school! Hopefully, they pray Catholic prayers! Do they pray the Our Father more than once? Would that be too repetitive?
 
I’m a tad confused. Are you upset that your children are being taught to pray at a Catholic school? Or are they being forced to pray in a militant way? or is it just the Rosary that you object to?

A Catholic school is usually a nice place for a child to be introduced to private devotional prayers. I’ve had teachers introduce the Divine Mercy Chaplet, or taught about the first Friday devotion and First Saturday devotion. These are all personal devotions, but none were forced to do them. Teaching a child a prayer and practicing them in a class should be seen as a gift. In our society we are all about “exposing” our children to other “cultures” and “ways of thinking.” Shouldn’t our Catholic children be exposed to Marian devotion, especially in the month of May?

Which is your objection? Teaching children what prayers are? or the Rosary?
 
hansard said:
No, there’s nothing wrong with the Rosary at all, if you pray it willingly.
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Agreed
Forcing children to pray in any form is immoral.
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I would disagree with this. It is no more immoral for a Catholic school to require children to participate in group prayer than it is for a secular school to require students to say the pledge od allegiance or sing the national anthem or participate in social studies etc…
My style is to say something like, “Now, please offer a prayer for something or someone, or just to offer thanks to God. If you don’t want to pray, please think about how you might do something to help someone today.”
Click to expand...
Now, I’m not presenting myself as a prayer guru, but how is the Rosary any better than this?
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How is the Rosary any worse?
In order for Children to know what works for them, they need to be exposed to various things. Requiring that they pray the rosary can be one such exposure…
Here’s how it will play out, I think:
Click to expand...
Scenario 1: Children pray the Rosary willingly and with good intentions. I have no problem with this.
**Scenario 2: **Children recite prayers, unwillingly and by rote, and forget the experience immediately. Point? None.
Scenario 3: Children willingly offer prayers for something personal and significant. If they choose not to pray, they might reflect on their lives and behaviour.
Scenario 4: Children don’t reflect on anything, and just sit there.
Click to expand...
Under no scenario above is it my business to impose a form of spirituality on them; I can only encourage and provide the “space” for them to do it.
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It’s a personal journey and I have no more insight than they do.
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You overlook a scenario. The child starts out not liking the rosary but because they are properly taught, they grow to appreciate it.

I agree that the spiritual journey is a personal one…I also agree that imposed prayer won’t necessarily cause one to be more spiritual… but School children are to be taught…trained…exposed to different things and sometimes that requires that a discipline be imposed - at least for a time.

Just some thoughts…

Peace
James
 
JimG: no, that would actually be a prayer initiated by Christ himself.

SimpleChristian: No, I understand the points fully. I can actually understand these comments. I will be taking it up with the REC. As for feeling sorry for me: well, the Church has spoken. No need for Marian Devotion. No need for the Rosary. You can feel as sorry as you like, but the word of the Church is more important.

A footnote: I am often appalled by the “whatever” attitude by the Church towards Mary. She has about 5 articles of doctrine attached to her, yet devotion is not required, the Rosary is not required, anything She says in revelation is only “worthy of belief”. It is an almost dismissive, casual attitude. Yet an ancient scribbling by some prophet is enshrined in Holy Scripture. Go figure.
 
Children go to school unwillingly, do homework and take tests unwillingly. It’s a Catholic school so they are required to do Catholic things, like learn and pray the rosary. This is not bad, its good, even if they don’t want to pray the rosary. Children are just that, children. Where did the notion arise they have a choice when their parents lay out a path for them to follow?

Besides, no one is stopping them from saying any prayer they please before finishing prayer.
 
No, JRKH: Pledges of allegiance are to secular institutions. Requirements to learn the curriculum are secular concerns.
I am astonished that you would see these as similar in any way to sacred matters.
 
Why don’t you remove your children from the school if prayer and prayer beads a such a big deal?
 
hansard said:
I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)
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Wow! Yes as SimpleChristian said this does sound very Protestant.

Saint Alphonsus Liguori, a Doctor of the Church said that devotion to the Blessed Virgin is a sign of our predestination and he is not alone among the saints in this belief.

Catholic children, if properly catechized,(which sadly is so rare these days) will have a devotion to our Blessed Lady and will want to say her rosary every day.

There are may great books written for children about our Blessed Lady and her rosary. Children love the stories of Fatima because our Lady appeared to children. There are picture books of the rosary to hold a child’s interest while they pray.

When children are older they can be introduced to the classics such as; True Devotion to the Blessed Mother by St. Louis de Montfort; The Glories of Mary by St Alphonsus Liguori; The Mystical City of God by Mary of Agreda. A great little book that I have recently found that would be perfect for older children is; “Of Mary there is Never Enough” by William L. Biersach.

Anyway, like anything else that you want children to learn, devotion to Our Lady has to be instilled in them at an early age, but young children really come by it naturally if it is introduced to them early on.
 
It’s a Catholic school, there should be nothing wrong with having the students pray the rosary. Try not to see it as forced prayer, but teaching the children to pray.
 
hansard said:
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I understand what you are saying hansard, I believe prayer should be encouraged and learned at a Catholic School (Sadly some Catholic Schools are Catholic in name only), however I don’t believe it should be made mandatory or ‘forced’ in any way to be prayed. I believe It must be prayed voluntarily and with the heart or else it is mere words.

A Hail Mary said with your heart and all your being has more power than ten Rosaries said by those who recite their prayers in a merely routine fashion.

Also I hope you don’t mind hansard if I share with you an extract from Dr. Scott Hahn’s conversion stroy on praying the rosary. 🙂
Scott Hahn's Conversion Story:
Text - catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0088.html
Audio (youtube) - youtube.com/watch?v=FrQN8LHYg5g

First, I began to pray a rosary. I was very scared to do this. I asked the Lord not to be offended as I tried. I proceeded to pray, and as I prayed I felt more in my heart what I came to know in my mind: I am a child of God. I don’t just have God as my Father and Christ as my brother; I have His Mother for my own.

A friend of mine who had heard I was thinking about the Catholic Church called up one day and said: “Do you worship Mary like those Catholics do?” I said, “They don’t worship Mary; they honor Mary.” “Well, what’s the difference?” I said, “Let me explain. When Christ accepted the call from His Father to become a man, He accepted the responsibility to obey the law, the moral law which is summarized in the Ten Commandments. There’s a commandment which reads, ‘Honor your father and mother.’” I said, “Chris, in the original Hebrew, that word “honor,” kaboda, that Hebrew word means to glorify, to bestow whatever glory and honor you have upon your father and mother. Christ fulfilled that law more perfectly than any human by bestowing His glory upon His heavenly Father and by taking His own divine glory and honoring His Mother with it. All we do in the rosary, Chris, is to imitate Christ who honors His Mother with His own glory. We honor her with Christ’s glory.”
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“Never be afraid of loving the Blessed Virgin too much. You can never love her more than Jesus did.”
– Saint Maximilian Kolbe

God Bless

I hope I have helped

Thank you for reading
Josh
 
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