Our school is imposing the rosary

[Memaw]

No, there’s nothing wrong with the Rosary at all, if you pray it willingly.

Forcing children to pray in any form is immoral.

My style is to say something like, “Now, please offer a prayer for something or someone, or just to offer thanks to God. If you don’t want to pray, please think about how you might do something to help someone today.”

Now, I’m not presenting myself as a prayer guru, but how is the Rosary any better than this?

Here’s how it will play out, I think:

Scenario 1: Children pray the Rosary willingly and with good intentions. I have no problem with this.
**Scenario 2: **Children recite prayers, unwillingly and by rote, and forget the experience immediately. Point? None.
Scenario 3: Children willingly offer prayers for something personal and significant. If they choose not to pray, they might reflect on their lives and behaviour.
Scenario 4: Children don’t reflect on anything, and just sit there.

Under no scenario above is it my business to impose a form of spirituality on them; I can only encourage and provide the “space” for them to do it.

It’s a personal journey and I have no more insight than they do.

Your being taught to pray a very cherished form of Catholic prayer in a Catholic school. What’s so wrong about that??? Your not the only student in that school! Your attitude is what needs working on. Maybe you should talk to your priest and let him help you come to a better understanding. Do you think about the Mysteries for each decade? It is a beautiful form of prayer. Practice makes perfect. God Bless, Memaw

 

[MomaMary8]

I can only thank you all for the diligence in your replies and admire your dedication to the Rosary.
The fact that I see little value in it is a personal issue and I would never reveal that to my students. Never.

I’ll exit the discussion now, as I don’t think I can add anything to it.

Would you accept one of your students decision to “exit the discussion” when he thought he couldn’t add more to the discussion??? That is usually the point the child begins to open his or her mind to a new idea!

 

[savedbygrace71]

I can only thank you all for the diligence in your replies and admire your dedication to the Rosary.
The fact that I see little value in it is a personal issue and I would never reveal that to my students. Never.

I’ll exit the discussion now, as I don’t think I can add anything to it.

well that’s disappointing. You got some decent responses here, and it’s too bad you aren’t going to engage people who took the time to read and respond to you.

But I’m interested to see that you are saying it’s actually your problem with the rosary not any of the children’s. So, let them find their own way with this devotion, and don’t worry about it.

 

[lola5555]

For me the point of repetitive prayer is meditating on the Mysteries. So while I’m praying the Hail Marys, for example, I’m thinking about the life of Jesus and some aspect of what happened, what He said, or something He did. When I can focus well, I can both pray and concentrate on His life and sacrifices. Only the repetition allows me to focus in this manner and brings different meaning to each Hail Mary.

 

[babylonfalling]

I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)

Don’t presume that merely because the rosary isn’t “more personal, meaningful” to you, that it’s the same way for others.

Very few Catholics have the problems you do with the rosary. This sounds very much like a case of expecting the whole community to change in order to humor your wishes

 

[JediSisko]

Oh, I’m just a teacher at the school. I don’t want to make children take up rosary beads and count off prayers by rote. It seems meaningless to me. I suppose I have different and possibly unusual notions of what prayer should be.

Okay. One last time.

Those who disagree with me: What, exactly, is the purpose of praying the same prayer over and over again?
(I don’t want a throw-away answer like “it brings us closer to the virgin” or “it calms us in the stillness that is God”, or any other almost-meaningless platitudes).

I would like (if you would be so kind) a specific answer about why repetitive prayer is any better than personal prayer.

One thing the Rosary is a meditative prayer. Each decade one the prayer we are suppose to meditate on a certain aspect of the life of Christ and his mother. To help ourselves get into meditation is by repetition. Praying 10 Hail Marys brings us closer to that meditation in which we are to do.

Being repetitive also builds love for Mary in our heart. Just as The Little Engine repeated the words “I think I can” gave him the confidence to overcome the obstacle of the hill so does repeating the Hail Mary softens our heart to her.

 

[OraLabora]

I’ll begin by saying that I am not particularly attached to Marian devotion and especially not to the Rosary; my main attachment is to the Liturgy of the Hours. However I’m not looking at this from the perspective of the value (or not) of the Rosary. Marian devotion is a personal thing and for those who derive great spiritual benefit from it I encourage it.

However, his is a Catholic school. It should be no great surprise that kids are taught Catholic devotions. I was certainly taught the Rosary when I was in Catholic elementary school and I promptly quit praying when I left. As far as I can tell, learning something that bored me left no permanent scars…

It would be impossible for a child to develop attachment (or not) towards Marian devotion without learning what it’s all about first.

It sounds in fact you’re projecting your prejudice against the Rosary onto your child. There can be no harm in teaching them the Rosary. It doesn’t bite though for some it may bore.

I hated history as a child. Found it a thoroughly boring subject. Nobody needs to know history to succeed in most areas of life; my success was in the pure sciences (I hated catechism class too…) and languages; others took more to social sciences, etc.

But now I love history and most of my leisure reading is… history. I wish now I’d paid more attention in class; the more we learn, and the more diversity of subjects we acquire, the richer we are. We’re all different, but all had to endure the same curriculum.

Learning a subject isn’t the torture we often make it out to be when we hate the subject, but we can’t have a well-formed mind unless we learn the subject. Teaching the Rosary in a Catholic school is fine. Grading a child on how well they know the Rosary is fine. It is after all a Catholic school. As an adult the child can make up his/her mind as to the value of reciting the Rosary. But unless (s)he learns the Rosary, the child won’t have the basis on which to form a judgement. I would have found my return to Catholicism very difficult if not for the catechism I was taught as a child.

I say this with the greatest restraint and I’m going to try to be as charitable as possible: you should get over your own prejudice against Marian prayer when it applies to your child. We have a duty to raise our children in the Faith, but we don’t have a duty to impose our own blind spots or prejudices on them. Let the school do its job of teaching the Faith. By all means, if your child asks why you don’t pray the Rosary, explain it to him or her. But don’t project your view by forcing the school to restrict an important part of its curriculum.

Like my dad always said when I hated a subject at school: you have to learn it to pass. When you’re a grownup, you can choose. Tell your child that this is part of learning about the faith, and when (s)he is a grownup, (s)he can decide to continue praying the Rosary or not.

 

[Memaw]

well that’s disappointing. You got some decent responses here, and it’s too bad you aren’t going to engage people who took the time to read and respond to you.

But I’m interested to see that you are saying it’s actually your problem with the rosary not any of the children’s. So, let them find their own way with this devotion, and don’t worry about it.

Sometimes I wonder if some don’t get on here just to stir up trouble then leave as soon as they get some flack. God Bless, Memaw

 

[Cricket2]

As the children are apparently attending a Catholic School I would see no problem with this. Prayer is prayer, and one way of learning is through repetition. Why not look at this as a way that they will develop the discipline of prayer; a way of focusing on prayer that is not about what they want; and a possible way to find praying the Rosary as a source of comfort and simple routine to become more prayerful?

Those attending Christian Schools should expect that prayer is part of that environment, and as Catholics we should well expect the Rosary to be part of this prayer development. Let it go and instead of seeing it as a forced inconvenience look at this as spiritual opportunity for inner growth for the kids.

 

[johnnyc176]

The Holy Father prescribes daily rosary for what ails you…

VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Pope Francis admitted he wasn’t a pharmacist, but he didn’t hesitate being the spokesman for the heart-healthy benefits of 59 little pills strung together: the rosary.

“I want to recommend some medicine for all of you,” the pope said Nov. 17 at the end of his Sunday Angelus address. “It’s a spiritual medicine.”

Holding up a white medicine box with an anatomical drawing of the human heart on it, Pope Francis told some 80,000 people gathered for the midday prayer that the boxes contained a rosary.

“Don’t forget to take it,” he said. “It’s good for your heart, for your soul, for your whole life.”

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1304848.htm

 

[Corki]

I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)

You are setting two things in opposition to each other that need not be.

1. how do you know that the children are not also taught to pray in other ways? Does the school entirely focus on the Rosary and spend no time teaching the children to pray liturgically, silently or meditatively?
2. the Rosary has value beyond the individual prayers. One of the reasons Catholic schools exist is to pass on the traditions of the Church to the youth. The Rosary is a great tradition of the Church. In most Catholic schools, the children are also exposed to other traditions such as saying the Angelus, Stations of the Cross, adoration, lenten sacrifice, etc.
3. what exactly do you mean by “forced”? Are the children not forced to attend school, to do homework to go to Mass with their classmates? Do these things lose their value simply because they are not optional? And how would a child ever spontaneously pray the Rosary if he/she had not been taught through a classroom exercise?
4. silent, personal prayer is good but it is not the only form of prayer. Children need to learn all the forms of prayer while young so they can call upon them all as adults.

If you don’t want your children exposed to the Treasury of Prayers of the Church, maybe Catholic school isn’t the best option.

 

[Memaw]

The Holy Father prescribes daily rosary for what ails you…

catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1304848.htm

I love it, Pope Francis is a breath of fresh air for the Church, he has a wonderful way of putting things in perspective. God Bless, Memaw

 

[izzydizzydo]

Hansard - Catholic (unsure about anything) Isn’t it great that we all have this place to work out our struggles with Catholicism)

I never had children but I did have personal experience being raised by a mother who often times brought into our family her own thoughts of rebellion about various aspects of Catholicism. But then again so did her father. As my brother and I went through puberty so did we. See the pattern here.

As I was in discernment to return to the Catholic Church from a progressively rebellious Protestant Church who rejected numerous biblical teachings I finally became willing to say, “I may not understand or embrace this or that but I am willing to accept that in time I probably will one day through the grace of God.”

That willingness to become teachable is just wonderful. It’s really terrific as I see myself grow and stop struggling as I used to do. I still don’t get some of our practices but I have the consistent example of good Catholic friends as my guides".

I say nothing about those aspects which I don’t yet appreciate but am confident I will in time.I still don’t get Adoration but I thank God he is so patient with me.

 

[MomaMary8]

See post #24. He’s the teacher, not a parent.

 

[johnnyc176]

I wonder if Catholics who seem to fall into the same misunderstanding as protestants about ‘repetitive’ prayer understand that the Mass is our most important prayer. The same prayer every day…

 

[ccmcmg]

JimG: no, that would actually be a prayer initiated by Christ himself.

SimpleChristian: No, I understand the points fully. I can actually understand these comments. I will be taking it up with the REC. As for feeling sorry for me: well, the Church has spoken. No need for Marian Devotion. No need for the Rosary. You can feel as sorry as you like, but the word of the Church is more important.

A footnote: I am often appalled by the “whatever” attitude by the Church towards Mary. She has about 5 articles of doctrine attached to her, yet devotion is not required, the Rosary is not required, anything She says in revelation is only “worthy of belief”. It is an almost dismissive, casual attitude. Yet an ancient scribbling by some prophet is enshrined in Holy Scripture. Go figure.

Whatever, attitude? Towards Mary? I see the opposite! While the Church is focused on God (Father, Son and Holy Spirit) and that’s what is held up as the basis of our belief, Mary is definitely 2nd among devotion. Many great Catholic saints, scholars, popes and laypeople have had, as well as promoted, a great devotion to Mary. In fact, that’s one of the ‘knocks’ we receive from Protestant faiths!

It’s a Catholic school, there should be nothing wrong with having the students pray the rosary. Try not to see it as forced prayer, but teaching the children to pray.

And, done well, it is more than recited, rote prayer; it’s a meditation on the life of Christ.

Oh, I’m just a teacher at the school. I don’t want to make children take up rosary beads and count off prayers by rote. It seems meaningless to me. I suppose I have different and possibly unusual notions of what prayer should be.

Okay. One last time.

Those who disagree with me: What, exactly, is the purpose of praying the same prayer over and over again?
(I don’t want a throw-away answer like “it brings us closer to the virgin” or “it calms us in the stillness that is God”, or any other almost-meaningless platitudes).

I would like (if you would be so kind) a specific answer about why repetitive prayer is any better than personal prayer.

Mass is the same prayer over and over again. As is the Our Father. As is my calling to Him for His Mercy and Forgiveness.

Lord, please hear all our prayers, especially as we pray for the teachers in our Catholic schools. Bless them for their service to You, to the Faith, to our children, and to the community. Help them grow even more in your Love, in the Faith, for they are truly leading the little ones to You. Bless and fill their hearts, as their career is more of a vocation to You than a job of this world. We are thankful for them O Lord. Glory be to You, for the gift of Catholic school teachers and administrators. All Praise and Glory to You, God Almighty Father!! Amen, Alleluia, AMEN!

 

[JRKH]

No, JRKH: Pledges of allegiance are to secular institutions. Requirements to learn the curriculum are secular concerns.
I am astonished that you would see these as similar in any way to sacred matters.

So what you are saying is that it’s OK to “impose” secular things.
It’s OK to impose a love of country, respect for the flag and civil law, but not to impose meditation on the mysteries of the Rosary…

I’m surprised that you don’t see the connection…

Things will be imposed on children,It’s just a question of what…

 

[robwar]

I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)

I am not sure why you are considering or calling prayers said at school whether it is more formalize as a rosary or any other prayer as forced and not meaningful. I am sure they are doing “Our Father” would you consider that forced? I am sure they all go to Mass, is that forced to you? Since you are sending them to a Catholic school so they are going to do Catholic things such as praying rosaries, Our Fathers and attend Mass. You perception of “force” is a little off here. My boys went through Catholic School and did these things, they went to Mass every week and even those who weren’t Catholic attended Mass with their class, even if they couldn’t receive the Eucharist. Maybe something like a rosary is not a devotion for you but I can’t understand why this would be a complaint that a Catholic School is having the rosary prayed during school time. Thinking that prayer isn’t “meaningful” if it isn’t spontaneous is off base and more Protestant than Catholic. Jesus did give a formalized prayer to the apostles when asked and it is called Our Father. Thinking that there isn’t meaning or power in these types of formalized prayers again is off base and incorrect thinking.

 

[Magdalen2013]

Oh, I’m just a teacher at the school. I don’t want to make children take up rosary beads and count off prayers by rote. It seems meaningless to me. I suppose I have different and possibly unusual notions of what prayer should be.

Okay. One last time.

Those who disagree with me: What, exactly, is the purpose of praying the same prayer over and over again?
(I don’t want a throw-away answer like “it brings us closer to the virgin” or “it calms us in the stillness that is God”, or any other almost-meaningless platitudes).

I would like (if you would be so kind) a specific answer about why repetitive prayer is any better than personal prayer.

Repetitive prayer is a meditation technique. It calms the mind and the body, and eases stress. Even if I weren’t Catholic I would see no harm in teaching children to recite the Rosary prayers.

I’m not sure why you think the Rosary ISN’T personal prayer. It is considered a devotion, and the Church has no rules about when, where and why it can be said. The Church is big on community-building, and saying the Rosary as a group can do that.

Considering your difficulties with this I am surprised you have chosen to work for a Catholic school.

 

[Dorothy]

First it sounds like YOU are the one who has a problem with praying the rosary.

The rosary is meant to be a contemplative prayer. It is not better or worse than “personal” prayer but it was given to us by Our Lady Herself, and therefore vicariously by Her Son, so that in itself should make EVERY Catholic want to have a devotion to the Rosary.

If one prays the Rosary as a contemplative prayer it is not repetitive and mundane. The Rosary tells the story of the Incarnation, Passion and Resurrection of our Lord and the events of Our Lady’s life such as Her Fiat, Assumption, and Coronation. One can contemplate these events or contemplate on the graces to be obtained by saying each decade, such as mortification of the flesh when saying the decade on the scourging, etc…

Yes! It takes a while to learn how to pray the Rosary correctly. The heart of the Rosary is meditating on our Lord’s life, and some of her special privileges. The saying of the Hail Mary is repetitive, but the point is to stay with it and picture or think of the particular mystery of the Rosary. The Holy Rosary has the potential of aiding one in reaching the heights of contemplation as they plod along and learn to know, love, and serve our Lord better, having meditated on His life, passion, resurrection and ascension all for us.

It begins with baby steps, and how the person saying the prayer cooperates with the graces given.
It is like holding Mary’s hand while meditating on the life of her Son, and who knew Him better? We begin to ponder in our hearts, as she did. Many graces come from the prayer of the Rosary!

It saddens me very much when children are not nurtured with ways to pray, especially the Rosary.