Our school is imposing the rosary

[thequeen]

I see no problem with having children pray the rosary most children in Catholic School love praying the rosary.

 

[Memaw]

My question is, out of all the different churches I’ve been to, why is the Catholic Church the ONLY one which honors the prophecy of calling Mary blessed/

I started a thread about this and cannot get a single answer.

You should be asking them not us. We can’t answer for others properly. God Bless. Memaw

 

[clarkest]

If a person has some sort of an understanding of how great, majestic and good our God is and how much lower than Him we are, and also a Catholic understanding of Mary, then to reject any and all devotion to her is not enough to warrant hell but does reflect a profound lack of humility.

…

One last point, you make the mistake in believing that the Rosary is not personal. Yes, the Rosary is not directly all about us. But we are Catholics, and so we don’t want our lives to revolve around ourselves. We want our lives to revolve around Love. Divine Love. Sure it’s important to pray for ourselves and our needs, but just because the Rosary is not all about me does not mean it is not personal. One of the goals of the Christian life is to give ourselves totally to God and be like Jesus Christ in everything we do. How can we become like Jesus if we never meditate on His life? How can we apply the truths we learn in our meditation to our own lives, transforming how we live and who we are, if we refuse to meditate on His Life? And how can we allow God to work on our hearts in the dark secret places of our souls if we don’t spend a lot of time with him in prayer? So while the Rosary is not something a person praying wrote himself, it is still deeply personal and has everything to do with making him a more godly person.

Agreed.

 

[Rin]

My question is, out of all the different churches I’ve been to, why is the Catholic Church the ONLY one which honors the prophecy of calling Mary blessed/

I started a thread about this and cannot get a single answer.

Actually, the Protestant denominations are the only ones to not call Her blessed. All Apostolic Churches do; Catholic, Orthodox and Oriental alike.

As to why? From Magnificat: “for behold from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed.” (Luke 1:48)

 

[tee_eff_em]

tl;dr

But since you do not seem to have answered the question, I will join my voice to the chorus of those asking:

I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses

, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

You do not seem to have a problem with “forcing” the children to go to Mass, why do you have a problem with “forcing” the children to pray the rosary?

tee

 

[ProVobis]

In my day it wasn’t called “forcing” it was called TEACHING. What about the Mass. Should we not pray together then too. You do have a problem my dear. God Bless, Memaw

We could, although theologically the sacrifice of the Mass offered by the priest is no less pleasing to God whether the priest speaks in our language or not. Or whether we respond or not. Praying the Mass is not quite the same thing as praying a rosary.

 

[maryjk]

My question is, out of all the different churches I’ve been to, why is the Catholic Church the ONLY one which honors the prophecy of calling Mary blessed/

I started a thread about this and cannot get a single answer.

Would you post a link to that thread?

I searched and found 5 threads that you have started. Two titled, Why did God create Man?, and one each for Reality of Hell, Preparing the Spirit and The relationship between faith and works.

 

[babochka]

So, you all agree that insincere prayers are valid, that children should be educated in repetitive prayers, and that such prayers are as valid as any others.

I disagree that prayer that is not spontaneous is insincere.

This is a simplistic attitude. Do you mean that you can’t find the words to pray? Really?

While I don’t think there is anything wrong with spontaneous prayer, let me share with you something that someone much wiser than I has to say about it. This is from the book*** Beginning to Pray*** by Anthony Bloom, an Orthodox Metropolitan (Archbishop). Agree or disagree, but realize that there is another perspective on praying the prayers that have been given to us by the saints who journeyed before us.

In the use of words there are three things we can do. We can use spontaneous prayer, the kind of prayer that gushes out of our own souls; we can use short vocal prayers which are very short, extremely intense in their content and wide so that they can contain as many meanings as possible; and we can use what one calls, at times in a rather unpleasant way, ready-made prayers, which range from the flattest productions of people who are trying to invent prayers for all occasions, to the expressions of the saints’ deepest experience, expressed in the prayers that they did not invent but which the Holy Spirit coined within their lives and within their hearts.

(paragraph skipped)

Now, if we imagine that we can sustain spontaneous prayer throughout our life, we are in a childish delusion. Spontaneous prayer must gush out of our souls, we cannot simply turn on a tap and get it out. It is not there for us to draw from to use at any moment. It comes from the depths of our soul, from either wonder or distress, but it does not come from the middle situation in which we are neither overwhelmed by the divine presence nor overwhelmed by a sense of who we are and in the position in which we are. So that, at those moments, to try to use a spontaneous prayer is a completely illusory exercise.

He goes on to explore this concept in more depth, then continues:

So there is a need for some sort of prayer which is not spontaneous, but which is truly rooted in conviction. To find this you can draw from a great many of the existing prayers. We already have a rich panoply of prayers which were wrought in the throes of faith, by the Holy Spirit. For example, we have the psalms, we have so many short and long prayers in the liturgical wealth of all the Churches from which we can draw.

 

[OraLabora]

I disagree that prayer that is not spontaneous is insincere.

I agree with this completely. In fact prayer that is “not spontaneous” is at the very heart of monastic life; seven times a day, monks stop what they are doing and gather in choir to sing the Office. Whether they feel like or not, whether they’re floating on a cloud of joy, or suffering from acedia, whether they’re sad or happy. Moreover they are praying the Office that they are assigned to pray by the liturgy, not just the prayers and psalms they feel like praying. They pray sad psalms when they’re feeling joyful, because somewhere someone is sad and needs to be accompanied spiritually. They sing joyful ones when they’re sad, because somewhere, someone has reason to give thanks.

At times, they may even pray when their mind isn’t into it. That doesn’t make it insincere. Their commitment, by taking vows, and just by showing up at each Office, demonstrates their overall sincerity even if from time to time their mind or mood drifts.

Learning this gave me a whole new perspective on the Liturgy of the Hours. Prayer is not just something we do for ourselves. As Christians, it is our duty to pray for everyone. We are the Body of Christ, each member supports the other mutually, and this reaches a special kind of fulfillment through communal prayer such as the Liturgy of the Hours or a communal recitation of the Rosary.

So all I can say is… a Catholic school teaching the Rosary? Quelle surprise!

 

[Teelynn]

I have no problem with Catholic schools doing Catholic things: school Masses, retreats, daily prayer, occasional confession opportunities, a general focus on good living, compassion and generosity. We are good at those things, even though few students or staff are actually “Catholic” in the way they practise their faith.

What I have a problem with is forcing children to say a repetitive prayer (counted off on the beads, of course - we wouldn’t want to count incorrectly) when they could be offered the opportunity to make a more personal, meaningful prayer.

For example, when I am required to say a prayer at a meeting, I always ask people to offer quiet prayers of a personal nature. This is in keeping with Matthew 6:6 (“go to your room” etc).

Another concern: if prayers are forced, they can’t be genuine. Therefore, they will not “get through” at all.

If Marian Devotion is not required of the faithful (beyond the main dogmatic statements which are more recognition than devotion), and if praying the Rosary is not required, I won’t be inclined to enforce this.

Surely a carefully considered prayer is of more personal and spiritual value than a dull, repetitive, forced prayer.

(NOTE: I have nothing against those with a devotion to Mary. I admire and respect that. It’s not for me, that’s all.)

This is a common complaint by people who don’t understand The Rosary. Of course it is not correctly prayed by one who robotically repeats the “Hail Mary” or the “Our Father”. The Rosary is meant to be a meditation on the life of Christ. When you pray the rosary correctly, you (of course) pray the Hail Mary’s repeatedly, but at the same time you are to meditate on the Mystery of the decade you are praying, applying that mystery to your own life and walk with Jesus. WHEN YOU PRAY THE ROSARY YOU ARE ACTUALLY PRAYING THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST.

Personally, I think all kids in Catholic Schools, and at home should be taught how to pray the Rosary, but they need to be taught the correct way to pray it, which takes time for kids to get the hang of what they are really doing when praying it. They may possibly not keep up the practice when they grow up, but at least they will have a point of reference if and when they want to pray it.

I remember as a child having to learn how to pray the Rosary while attending my Catholic Grade School. When I was an adult, I went back to praying it during a difficult part of my life…and believe me, praying that Rosary SAVED MY VERY LIFE. Many miracles came my way by the way of the Rosary.

As Padre Pio once said: “The Rosary is the Weapon”

 

[TimothyH]

I agree with this completely. In fact prayer that is “not spontaneous” is at the very heart of monastic life; seven times a day, monks stop what they are doing and gather in choir to sing the Office. Whether they feel like or not, whether they’re floating on a cloud of joy, or suffering from acedia, whether they’re sad or happy. Moreover they are praying the Office that they are assigned to pray by the liturgy, not just the prayers and psalms they feel like praying. They pray sad psalms when they’re feeling joyful, because somewhere someone is sad and needs to be accompanied spiritually. They sing joyful ones when they’re sad, because somewhere, someone has reason to give thanks.

At times, they may even pray when their mind isn’t into it. That doesn’t make it insincere. Their commitment, by taking vows, and just by showing up at each Office, demonstrates their overall sincerity even if from time to time their mind or mood drifts.

Learning this gave me a whole new perspective on the Liturgy of the Hours. Prayer is not just something we do for ourselves. As Christians, it is our duty to pray for everyone. We are the Body of Christ, each member supports the other mutually, and this reaches a special kind of fulfillment through communal prayer such as the Liturgy of the Hours or a communal recitation of the Rosary.

So all I can say is… a Catholic school teaching the Rosary? Quelle surprise!

Sometimes I go to adoration and say, “Lord Jesus, my offering is my presence. I am just going to sit here and yawn at you. That’s all I can give you today.” Those are the times when I really appreciate the structured, liturgical prayers of the Church and prayers like the rosary.

Jesus himself would have prayed the morning and evening prayer, day in and day out, over and over and over. He would have started every morning and evening prayer with the Shema Yisrael - the text from Dueteronomy 6:4-9.

You can hear exactly what Jesus would have recited twice daily at hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Torah/The_Shema/Complete/complete.html. There is a small audio speaker icon about 1/3 of the way down the page. Joseph and Mary would have diligently taught this prayer to Jesus.

-Tim-

 

[Miserissima]

Sometimes I go to adoration and say, “Lord Jesus, my offering is my presence. I am just going to sit here and yawn at you. That’s all I can give you today.” Those are the times when I really appreciate the structured, liturgical prayers of the Church and prayers like the rosary.

Jesus himself would have prayed the morning and evening prayer, day in and day out, over and over and over. He would have started every morning and evening prayer with the Shema Yisrael - the text from Dueteronomy 6:4-9.

You can hear exactly what Jesus would have recited twice daily at hebrew4christians.com/Scripture/Torah/The_Shema/Complete/complete.html. There is a small audio speaker icon about 1/3 of the way down the page. Joseph and Mary would have diligently taught this prayer to Jesus.

-Tim-

This is it exactly! Thank you for the link.

 

[Joe_5859]

Anyway, I won’t mind if they get “into” the Rosary and prove me wrong. I just won’t be forcing them. If a kid interrupts the Rosary of another kid, I’ll kick the offender out. If a kid wants to offer a prayer of another kind, I’ll do anything to give them the space to do that.
Oh, and I won’t be praying the Rosary out loud. No way. Prayer should be internal; a thought process. (Matt 6:6)

I would encourage you to be open to forms of prayer that do not resonate with you. As a Catholic school teacher, your job is not simply to convey to the children your own personal preferences but to give them access to the entire treasury of the Church. That will include the parts that you don’t like as much.

Prayer is not one-size-fits-all. Yes, there is silent personal prayer. That is good. There is also vocal public prayer (e.g. the Mass). That is also good.

Is the rosary repetitious? Sure. So are love songs that repeat the same refrain over and over again. We don’t ask musicians to make up their lyrics on the fly every time they sing and to never repeat a single phrase. That’s not how most music works.

The rosary is like a musical prayer. But just because we say the same words over and over again does not make those words meaningless.

By all means, teach the children how to offer personal prayers in their own words. That is absolutely necessary. But it is also necessary to teach them the wonderful prayers that have been handed down to us from generations past. And it is extremely important not to let your own personal opinions bleed through to your students the way they do through your posts here. Your students have a right to Catholic teaching as it is, not any one person’s opinion of it.

The Church is not setting aside the rosary any time soon. If you are expecting that, you are setting yourself up for disappointment. So, again, I would encourage a spirit of openness. Rather than writing off all memorized prayer as being “rote” and/or “meaningless”, try to understand why the Church utilizes such things.

 

[hansard]

Thanks for the comments, everyone (some of which probably took effort far beyond the deserving of this thread).

Very interesting.

 

[Miserissima]

Required? No. But it teaches memorization of important events in groupings and teaches meditative prayer, both of which should be taught in Catholic schools.

To build picture frame, I can use saw A for a particular type of cut, saw B works just as well. When building a picture frame, is it the tool or the product that’s more important?

 

[paperwight66]

It seems to me that there is huge difference between teaching children what the rosary is, and how to say it, and enforcing the actual saying of it as a school. year group, whatever.

I know when my own son was in Catholic high school and there was a compulsory Mass, he was shocked and sickened by he behaviour of the boys at the back of the hall, who played up and mocked what was going on because it was a way of getting back at the Brothers. He was equally shocked by the harsh punishments handed out, too.

If the school Mass had been voluntary, this wouldn’t have happened ; the ‘bad’ students wouldn’t have been tempted into blasphemy, and the students for whom the Mass meant something wouldn’t have been shocked nor had their experience spoilt.

 

[OraLabora]

It seems to me that there is huge difference between teaching children what the rosary is, and how to say it, and enforcing the actual saying of it as a school. year group, whatever.

I know when my own son was in Catholic high school and there was a compulsory Mass, he was shocked and sickened by he behaviour of the boys at the back of the hall, who played up and mocked what was going on because it was a way of getting back at the Brothers. He was equally shocked by the harsh punishments handed out, too.

If the school Mass had been voluntary, this wouldn’t have happened ; the ‘bad’ students wouldn’t have been tempted into blasphemy, and the students for whom the Mass meant something wouldn’t have been shocked nor had their experience spoilt.

In order to learn math, you have to do the times tables. Over and over again.

In order to learn a prayer form like the Rosary, you actually have to say the Rosary. Over and over again.

It really is that simple.

The school either has a mission to teach Catholicism, or it doesn’t. The Rosary is deeply rooted in Catholicism. Learning it requires a certain degree of rote and practice. Hence, the kids need to be forced to recite the Rosary just as they are forced to memorize the times tables.

No hidden agendas, no hand wringing. It’s a Catholic school. Catholic schools teach, among other things, the Rosary. Teaching the Rosary involves repeatedly saying the Rosary.

Learning the Rosary involves saying the Rosary regularly. Catholic schools teach the Rosary. How can a school call itself Catholic if it doesn’t teach the Rosary?

Have I repeated myself enough?

PS I’m an adult. I don’t pray the Rosary. It doesn’t work for me. The Liturgy of the Hours works for me. But I’m an adult Catholic. Not in school. When I went to a Catholic elementary school… guess what, we all prayed the Rosary.

 

[Memaw]

It seems to me that there is huge difference between teaching children what the rosary is, and how to say it, and enforcing the actual saying of it as a school. year group, whatever.

I know when my own son was in Catholic high school and there was a compulsory Mass, he was shocked and sickened by he behaviour of the boys at the back of the hall, who played up and mocked what was going on because it was a way of getting back at the Brothers. He was equally shocked by the harsh punishments handed out, too.

If the school Mass had been voluntary, this wouldn’t have happened ; the ‘bad’ students wouldn’t have been tempted into blasphemy, and the students for whom the Mass meant something wouldn’t have been shocked nor had their experience spoilt.

No it may not have happened, there might not have been anyone there to act up!! It should have been reported to the Brothers. Maybe some kids needed strong punishment. I doubt very much they gave high school boys a spanking! The parents should have been notified God Bless, Memaw.

 

[losh14]

OP has a good understanding of the intimate and personal nature of prayer. There is also a communal nature to prayer - we see this in the Mass, when we say the same prayers, and I think that meetings within a school, an organization such as the Knights, the Auxiliary, or other groups, are appropriately-led by a single prayer and a single person praying.

It’s not wrong to take a moment and ask for personal prayer, either. If I were leading a meeting I’d lead prayer myself, much as how I lead prayer when we have company at our home.

As for compelling what is otherwise a personal devotion, I understand both why the school would wish all students to pray it, and also why an individual student or family would not. I personally feel a distinct devotion to the Holy Trinity, though I’ve never felt one to the Blessed Virgin. So in my private prayer life I’m going to prefer one devotion to the other. Perhaps if a family approached the pastor, monsignor (who I take to be a priest assigned chiefly to the school), or principal and explained that the family keeps a specific devotion that is more meaningful to them than the Rosary, an exception might be made.

Or the school may wish all students to pray the Rosary together as a sign of unity, to be in accord with the prayer intentions of Pope Francis or the local bishop, or to honor the patron saint (either the Blessed Virgin herself, or a Marian devotee such as St. Bernadette, St. Theresa Liseaux, or St. John Vianney).

 

[ProVobis]

In order to learn math, you have to do the times tables. Over and over again.

In order to learn a prayer form like the Rosary, you actually have to say the Rosary. Over and over again.

It really is that simple.

What you say is right. However, the problem as I see it is when they change things. For example, they’ve changed the responses in the Mass (at least the ones in English), and they’ve changed the rosary as well. Maybe we’re used to just reciting decades but there were supposed to be mysteries that we were to reflect upon when reciting these decades. These of course have expanded and so has the rosary. And there is no guarantee a future Pope won’t come along and change the English prayers again, including the Our Father next time. So no big deal, we’ll just have to re-memorize?