Our Seminarian is Distributing the Eucharist During Communion, Is This an Abuse?

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Paragraph 166 only applies if it is impossible for a priest to be present to celebrate Mass on both the preceeding and the following Sunday. That’s what the text says, but you are trying to apply it to a situation where the priest is indeed celebrating Masses on both Sundays, since the priest is only absent for the weekdays.

Clarification…
On the days that this Repemptorist priest gave the communion service, there was both a 6:30 and and 8:30 mass said IN ADDITION TO the communion servive he held on those three evenings he was givng his talks on Christianity.
 
You’ve answered my question.

It’s your PRIDE that was hurt.
Oh Cluny,
If it was my pride then i probably wouldn’t have talked about the punishment I received, for the the rest of the world to see on Catholic Answers…I’m trying to problem solve. Let it go and stop beating me up about it. There are bigger issues we are talking about that have to do with the title of this thread. Either focus on the isssue at hand or go somewhere else please.:o
 
Update:

I just did some searching online to try to discover why there are liturgical abuses at our church. My intent was to see if they were prevelent at other churches within our Diocese.
My answer sadly is yes, very much so, with many abuses stemming from the Bishop.
Perhaps it is time to move to another thread entitled…What do you do when your Bishop continues to persist in error. I’m very saddened by what I’ve read online tonight.
 
Paragraph 166 only applies if it is impossible for a priest to be present to celebrate Mass on both the preceeding and the following Sunday. That’s what the text says, but you are trying to apply it to a situation where the priest is indeed celebrating Masses on both Sundays, since the priest is only absent for the weekdays.

Clarification…
On the days that this Repemptorist priest gave the communion service, there was both a 6:30 and and 8:30 mass said IN ADDITION TO the communion servive he held on those three evenings he was givng his talks on Christianity.
In the Roman Church, it’s not whether the mass has been said at that location x times that day; it’s if the celebrant.
Can. 905
§1. A priest is not permitted to celebrate the Eucharist more than once a day except in cases where the law permits him to celebrate or concelebrate more than once on the same day.

§2. If there is a shortage of priests, the local ordinary can allow priests to celebrate twice a day for a just cause, or if pastoral necessity requires it, even three times on Sundays and holy days of obligation.
vatican.va/archive/ENG1104/__P38.HTM
 
Oh Cluny,
If it was my pride then i probably wouldn’t have talked about the punishment I received, for the the rest of the world to see on Catholic Answers…I’m trying to problem solve. Let it go and stop beating me up about it. There are bigger issues we are talking about that have to do with the title of this thread. Either focus on the isssue at hand or go somewhere else please.:o
cknick, it seems that YOU are the problem.

Your very words about “trying to get the Church back on track” show what a swollen idea you have about yourself.

The very fact that you don’t know the right terminology demonstrates that you don’t always know whereof you speak.

Grow up!
 
BRENDAN:

I am quoting from “THE LITURGY DOCUMENTS”. third edition; Liturgy Training Publications.

ACOLYTES: " In the ministry of the altar, acolytes have their own proper functions and should exercise these even though ministers of a higher rank may be present.

Their proper ministry is to look after the service of the altar and to assist the deacon and priest in liturgical services, especially the celebration of Mass.

When necessary, acolytes should instruct those who serve as ministers in liturgical rites by carrying the book, the cross, candles, or the center or by performing other similar duties.

So that they may fulfill their responsibilities more worthily, acolytes should take part in the celebration of the Eucharist with ever increasing devotion, as the source of spiritual life and the object of an ever increasing devotion, as the source of their spiritual life and the deeper appreciation. They should seek to acquire an interior and spiritual sense of their ministry so that each day they may offer themselves wholly to God and grow in sincere love for the Mystical Body of Christ, the people of God, and especially for members who are weak and inform." The Liturgy Documents{; A Parish Resource; Liturgy Training Publications.}

PROVIGIL

PS I APOLIGIZE ABOUT THE PERPLEXION OF YOUR QUESTION, I WAS THINKING OF SOMETHING ELSE,
I believe we are all HUMAN and can make mistakes. I think when something is misunderstood, the people on the website could be more charitable. I hope this exclamation clears up any doubts or doubting Thomas’.

Mat the Holy Spirit and the Eternal Father help you in understanding this complex ministry.

God love you.

As for seminarians giving out Communion, if a lay person can do it, why can’t a seminarian who is also a lay person before he is a Deacon?
 
As for seminarians giving out Communion, if a lay person can do it, why can’t a seminarian who is also a lay person before he is a Deacon?
No lay person has a RIGHT to be EMHC. That privilege is bestowed when one becomes an acolyte and the diocese and the seminary are both free to impose restrictions on who is accepted as EMHC when no instituted acolytes are available.
 
BRENDAN:

I am quoting from “THE LITURGY DOCUMENTS”. third edition; Liturgy Training Publications.

ACOLYTES: " In the ministry of the altar, acolytes have their own proper functions and should exercise these even though ministers of a higher rank may be present.

Their proper ministry is to look after the service of the altar and to assist the deacon and priest in liturgical services, especially the celebration of Mass.

When necessary, acolytes should instruct those who serve as ministers in liturgical rites by carrying the book, the cross, candles, or the center or by performing other similar duties.

So that they may fulfill their responsibilities more worthily, acolytes should take part in the celebration of the Eucharist with ever increasing devotion, as the source of spiritual life and the object of an ever increasing devotion, as the source of their spiritual life and the deeper appreciation. They should seek to acquire an interior and spiritual sense of their ministry so that each day they may offer themselves wholly to God and grow in sincere love for the Mystical Body of Christ, the people of God, and especially for members who are weak and inform." [The Liturgy Documents{; A Parish Resource; Liturgy Training Publications.}

PROVIGIL

PS I APOLIGIZE ABOUT THE PERPLEXION OF YOUR QUESTION, I WAS THINKING OF SOMETHING ELSE,
I believe we are all HUMAN and can make mistakes. I think when something is [misunderstood, the people on the website could be more charitable. I hope this [exclamation clears up any doubts or doubting Thomas’.

Mat the Holy Spirit and the Eternal Father help you in understanding this complex ministry.

God love you.

As for seminarians giving out Communion, if a lay person can do it, why can’t a seminarian who is also a lay person before he is a Deacon?
Those unofficial publications should be treated as resources, but not as authoritative documents. It’s a necessary distinction.

The word “acolyte” might refer to two different people. The first is the *instituted Acolyte *(usually a seminarian). This office is permanent and must be conferred with the proper liturgical rite. The word acolyte might also be applied to a layperson who is is serving at the altar (altar boys, although they can be adults too!)

The instituted Acolyte should always exercise his proper functions when he is present at Mass. But remember that an instituted Acolytes is an extra-ordinary minister of Holy Communion, not ordinary. That means that he can only assist the priest/deacon if there is a genuine need. In other words, it’s not the proper function of an Acolyte to distribute, it’s an extra-ordinary function. I would hope that the book makes that distinction clear in another place. If not, it’s a serious omission.

The other kind of acolyte would be what we would usually call an “altar boy” (in this case, we’re speaking of adults). Those who serve here might likewise potentially be appointed as extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion if there is a genuine need, but again the function is strictly extra-ordinary. If a priest has a choice between appointing an acolyte or an instituted-acolyte to assist in Communion, then the correct choice is always the instituted one–that’s what the book means but is not making very clear (perhaps intentionally?).

Your last question is a very good one. It is always an odd situation that seminarians are often exercising extra-ordinary functions before being admitted to the formation programs, yet once admitted they are often prohibited from being appointed to these functions until they have been installed in the proper offices (reader & acolyte). This is done more as a part of the seminarian’s training than a matter of conforming to liturgical law as such. And yes, it can be akward.

The original poster asked if a seminarian can distribute Communion at Mass. The answer to that one is “yes” but it’s a qualified yes. It depends on other circumstances.

The other question was one of a seminarian (or any other layperson for that matter) conducting a so-called “Communion service” on a weekday simply because the parish priest is not in-town on that weekday. The answer to that one is “no” because such services are not in harmony with the liturgical life, or liturgical norms of the Church. These services can only happen in extreme circumstances on Sundays, and must be doubly-extreme for them to occur on a weekday. Since there is a resident priest, and Masses are being offered on Sundays, these services are not permitted.
[/quote]
 
cknick, it seems that YOU are the problem.

Your very words about “trying to get the Church back on track” show what a swollen idea you have about yourself.

The very fact that you don’t know the right terminology demonstrates that you don’t always know whereof you speak.

Grow up!
Asking questions and wanting to help isn’t a crime Cluny, especially if God led me to this place. God doesn’t always choose the best and the brightest to serve Him. Will you please stop attacking. If you want to help, stay, but if you don’t go to another thread.
 
Those unofficial publications should be treated as resources, but not as authoritative documents. It’s a necessary distinction.

The word “acolyte” might refer to two different people. The first is the *instituted Acolyte *(usually a seminarian). This office is permanent and must be conferred with the proper liturgical rite. The word acolyte might also be applied to a layperson who is is serving at the altar (altar boys, although they can be adults too!)

The instituted Acolyte should always exercise his proper functions when he is present at Mass. But remember that an instituted Acolytes is an extra-ordinary minister of Holy Communion, not ordinary. That means that he can only assist the priest/deacon if there is a genuine need. In other words, it’s not the proper function of an Acolyte to distribute, it’s an extra-ordinary function. I would hope that the book makes that distinction clear in another place. If not, it’s a serious omission.

The other kind of acolyte would be what we would usually call an “altar boy” (in this case, we’re speaking of adults). Those who serve here might likewise potentially be appointed as extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion if there is a genuine need, but again the function is strictly extra-ordinary. If a priest has a choice between appointing an acolyte or an instituted-acolyte to assist in Communion, then the correct choice is always the instituted one–that’s what the book means but is not making very clear (perhaps intentionally?).

Your last question is a very good one. It is always an odd situation that seminarians are often exercising extra-ordinary functions before being admitted to the formation programs, yet once admitted they are often prohibited from being appointed to these functions until they have been installed in the proper offices (reader & acolyte). This is done more as a part of the seminarian’s training than a matter of conforming to liturgical law as such. And yes, it can be akward.

The original poster asked if a seminarian can distribute Communion at Mass. The answer to that one is “yes” but it’s a qualified yes. It depends on other circumstances.

The other question was one of a seminarian (or any other layperson for that matter) conducting a so-called “Communion service” on a weekday simply because the parish priest is not in-town on that weekday. The answer to that one is “no” because such services are not in harmony with the liturgical life, or liturgical norms of the Church. These services can only happen in extreme circumstances on Sundays, and must be doubly-extreme for them to occur on a weekday. Since there is a resident priest, and Masses are being offered on Sundays, these services are not permitted.
Dear Fr. Dave,

Once again, thank you for the clarification! You have a wonderful gift of seeing through to what is being asked, sifting through the information and summarizing, in an “easy to understand” way.
 
To all Posters-

For those of you who joined me on my new thread regarding what to do when Bishops persist in grave error, The moderator d/c’d the thread, and recommended that we continue it from a “hypothetical” standpoint.

It was good advice, and I would like to continue hypothetically, so please re-join that thread if you are interested. There was one poster who gave some very good and specific advice on steps. Can you please re-post that information with approximate times to wait for responses, please.

Thank You!
 
Your seminarian has every right to distribute Communion just like the lay-people do. A seminarian is a lay-person, too until he becomes a transitional deacon.

Yes, he can have a Communion Service so can the lay people.

Do you realize what you are asking?

Don’t be shocked because of the shortage of priest if this is all we have on the weekend in a Communion Service–so get use to it.

PROVIGIL
 
You probably missed my previous post but the point that I made was that I was pretty sure that our seminarian giving homilies, wasn’t suppose to be, and I thought that this same seminarian was only suppose to be distributing precious blood and not the eucharist, so I thought I would ask. However through a series of questions and answers, we determined that this seminarian recently became an acolyte, in which case, it is fine to distribute under both species, and purify the vessels when there is not a Deacon present.
 
You probably missed my previous post but the point that I made was that I was pretty sure that our seminarian giving homilies, wasn’t suppose to be, and I thought that this same seminarian was only suppose to be distributing precious blood and not the eucharist, so I thought I would ask.
  1. When is going to sink into to you that the Precious Blood is JUST AS MUCH the Sacrament of the Eucharist as the Holy Body?
  2. Where did you get the idea that a seminarian could distribute the species of Wine but not Bread?
  3. Since you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about much of the time, I suggest you NOT go around looking for lapses–real or hypothetical–and try LEARNING something for a change.
 
Your seminarian has every right to distribute Communion just like the lay-people do. A seminarian is a lay-person, too until he becomes a transitional deacon.

Yes, he can have a Communion Service so can the lay people.

Do you realize what you are asking?

Don’t be shocked because of the shortage of priest if this is all we have on the weekend in a Communion Service–so get use to it.

PROVIGIL
However, Communion Services should only be held following very specific parameters. These are mostly the Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest and have strict guidelines as to when such can be done. Weekday “communion services” should not be happening.

Inasmuch as there are some areas in the United States that have SCAP, these are not wholesale and the documents clearly state that the faithful should make every effort to avail themselves of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
 
Your seminarian has every right to distribute Communion just like the lay-people do. A seminarian is a lay-person, too until he becomes a transitional deacon.

Yes, he can have a Communion Service so can the lay people.

Do you realize what you are asking?

Don’t be shocked because of the shortage of priest if this is all we have on the weekend in a Communion Service–so get use to it.

PROVIGIL
NO lay person has a RIGHT to distribute Communion. The seminarian may well be restricted by his bishop from becoming an EMHC until he becomes an instituted acolyte.
 
Your seminarian has every right to distribute Communion just like the lay-people do. A seminarian is a lay-person, too until he becomes a transitional deacon.

Yes, he can have a Communion Service so can the lay people.

Do you realize what you are asking?

Don’t be shocked because of the shortage of priest if this is all we have on the weekend in a Communion Service–so get use to it.

PROVIGIL
I fear you are missing the point of the question. Please consider re-reading posts # 1 & 16.

The question referred to a “communion service” conducted on a weekday as a substitute for daily Mass when a priest is not only available but is celebrating Mass on both the previous and following Sundays.

There is no justification for this, and it is completely forbidden by the Church.

No one can conduct a “communion service” except in the most extreme of circumstances.
 
However, Communion Services should only be held following very specific parameters. These are mostly the Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest and have strict guidelines as to when such can be done. Weekday “communion services” should not be happening.

Inasmuch as there are some areas in the United States that have SCAP, these are not wholesale and the documents clearly state that the faithful should make every effort to avail themselves of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Our bishop needed to specifically come out with an official letter banning Communion services in our diocese except in hospitals and nursing homes. Since most of our pairishes are less than a 15 minutes drive from another, there was no reason to have them. The liturgy commission is trying to encourage parishes to have communal celebrations of Morning Prayer on days when a Mass cannot be celebrated because there is no priest, but it is not going over well. As Phemie said, they are not “getting anything” so they don’t want to come. However many of these same people think nothing of coming 15 minutes late to daily Mass, receive communmion and leave. So it is not Mass they want, just communion. That in itself is wrong.
 
Our bishop needed to specifically come out with an official letter banning Communion services in our diocese except in hospitals and nursing homes. Since most of our pairishes are less than a 15 minutes drive from another, there was no reason to have them. The liturgy commission is trying to encourage parishes to have communal celebrations of Morning Prayer on days when a Mass cannot be celebrated because there is no priest, but it is not going over well. As Phemie said, they are not “getting anything” so they don’t want to come. However many of these same people think nothing of coming 15 minutes late to daily Mass, receive communmion and leave. So it is not Mass they want, just communion. That in itself is wrong.
My parish is facing the last two Sundays of June without a priest. Our parish coordinators had no problem opting to go with two Sunday Celebrations of the Word with Communion (that’s what our Rite is called in Canada) rather than spend about $2500 - $3000 to get a priest to come in for two weeks (flight + stipend).

Then the pastor mentioned that he would be forming the lay leaders of prayer to lead Funeral Vigils/Funerals. All of a sudden having a priest became of paramount importance and it has been decided that should a parishioner die the diocese will be called to provide a priest for the funeral. That could prove more expensive in the long run since we have at least two parishioners who could go at any time plus ‘we know not the hour’ so any number of others could die too. Sunday wasn’t important but a funeral…
 
  1. When is going to sink into to you that the precious blood is just as much the sacrament of the eucharist as the holy body?
  2. Where did you get the idea that a seminarian could distribute the species of wine but not bread?
  3. Since you clearly don’t know what you’re talking about much of the time, i suggest you not go around looking for lapses–real or hypothetical–and try learning something for a change.
1.to help reduce this posters stress i will from now on refer to the two species as precious body, and precious blood.
  1. Read it.
  2. Statement not worthy enough to respond to.
 
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