Our thoughts are controlled

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That’s correct, our thoughts are not our own, but the product of Satan or the Holy Spirit! Contemplate the implications! The best we can do is to be righteous in discerning the thoughts implanted by the Holy Spirit and clutch onto them while ignoring those thoughts and desires brought about by Satan! Again, contemplate that we are not who we think we are, but a mere byproduct of Satan, the Holy Spirit, or a cross-product of both!

With faith and prayer the temptations (implanted thoughts and activation of desires) of Satan will be minimized and the Holy Spirit will rule Supreme!

What I’m saying here is implicit in the Catholic faith. Bringing it to our attention is to take what is implicit and make it explicit.
 
That’s correct, our thoughts are not our own, but the product of Satan or the Holy Spirit!
That can’t be correct because Jesus admonishes us not to contemplate others with hatred, or with lust, or be governed by greed. These are all “thoughts,” which if we entertain, even interiorly, cause us to be in a state of sin.

We are free to shape ourselves through our thoughts.
 
That’s correct, our thoughts are not our own, but the product of Satan or the Holy Spirit! Contemplate the implications! The best we can do is to be righteous in discerning the thoughts implanted by the Holy Spirit and clutch onto them while ignoring those thoughts and desires brought about by Satan! Again, contemplate that we are not who we think we are, but a mere byproduct of Satan, the Holy Spirit, or a cross-product of both!

With faith and prayer the temptations (implanted thoughts and activation of desires) of Satan will be minimized and the Holy Spirit will rule Supreme!

What I’m saying here is implicit in the Catholic faith. Bringing it to our attention is to take what is implicit and make it explicit.
It would seem this would entirely rule out the concept of free will.:confused:
 
Sorry, but I just don’t agree. Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You. This is to be taken enough heed of… In every step you make, in every smile you fake, in every meal you eat, in every friendship you have, in every tennis-backhand you perform, in every single thing you do in life, I claim that you’re unique, genuine, individual and one. Now you of course have choices: the road is ever before your feet, and you’ll face situations, and you’ll also have to handle problems, and all those things counting on God, for sure. And joyful.

Only evil is divided, for, remember that dreary passage of the Scripture in which a possessed is asked to speak his name and he says something like we have no name, for we are many and our name is legion (it rings me a bell of gollum’s tolkien character)

But here is one point I’d like to tinge. You, in wrenching your will (your will=you), can of course be more like a saint every hour, every day; and thus Christ will be really inside you, as He is actually present, both physical and spiritual, after receiving Holy Communion. But who decides in those painful moments in which you know you ought to make an effort to do something? (for instance, in waking up earlier in order to attend Mass), I mean, plainly speaking, in wrenching your will. You’ve always got the choice. For we’re fated and yet with free-will; remember that “We are what we repeatedly do, therefore excellence is not an act, but a habit.” It follows that Christ pours and plunges into your heart only when you give your Love first (and then you receive a much greater “amount” of what you’ve first given; only when you lose your-self, you win your true-self: it’s you who ever makes that decision) , and I deem it only depends on you, not in the angel nor in the demon beside your ear!

Excuse me if my English doesn’t fit here as I’d like to! As you can all guess, I’m Spanish (and proud of it!:D) and I love your language.

Thanks!👍
God bless ye 🙂
 
That’s correct, our thoughts are not our own, but the product of Satan or the Holy Spirit! Contemplate the implications! The best we can do is to be righteous in discerning the thoughts implanted by the Holy Spirit and clutch onto them while ignoring those thoughts and desires brought about by Satan! Again, contemplate that we are not who we think we are, but a mere byproduct of Satan, the Holy Spirit, or a cross-product of both!

With faith and prayer the temptations (implanted thoughts and activation of desires) of Satan will be minimized and the Holy Spirit will rule Supreme!

What I’m saying here is implicit in the Catholic faith. Bringing it to our attention is to take what is implicit and make it explicit.
Aaahhhh…no.

This is along the lines of Luther’s metaphor of the horse, where we are the horse that is ridden, sometimes by God, and sometimes by Satan, and the two fight for control of us.
This is erroneous.

Also makes it possible for us to rationalize failure to strive for perfection, contrary to Jesus’ command that we be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect.

Also contains hints of the Protestant idea that the Blood of Christ only covers us, while we are still filthy and disgusting underneath.

Also ignores the other two sources of temptation, namely, the world and the flesh.
 
That can’t be correct because Jesus admonishes us not to contemplate others with hatred, or with lust, or be governed by greed. These are all “thoughts,” which if we entertain, even interiorly, cause us to be in a state of sin.

We are free to shape ourselves through our thoughts.
Yes, but from where do our thoughts and desires originate? It’s like turning on the TV and claiming that the voices and the picture come from within the TV set! Of course, we know this is not the case. The voices and the picture of the TV are broadcast from some television station. When it comes to our thoughts and desires, however, we quickly rule out Satan and the Holy Spirit and claim that thoughts and desires are ours, and originate from within! Might we be a bit pompous in these assertions?
 
Sorry, but I just don’t agree. Today you are You, that is truer than true. There is no one alive who is Youer than You. This is to be taken enough heed of… In every step you make, in every smile you fake, in every meal you eat, in every friendship you have, in every tennis-backhand you perform, in every single thing you do in life, I claim that you’re unique, genuine, individual and one. Now you of course have choices: the road is ever before your feet, and you’ll face situations, and you’ll also have to handle problems, and all those things counting on God, for sure. And joyful.

Only evil is divided, for, remember that dreary passage of the Scripture in which a possessed is asked to speak his name and he says something like we have no name, for we are many and our name is legion (it rings me a bell of gollum’s tolkien character)

But here is one point I’d like to tinge. You, in wrenching your will (your will=you), can of course be more like a saint every hour, every day; and thus Christ will be really inside you, as He is actually present, both physical and spiritual, after receiving Holy Communion. But who decides in those painful moments in which you know you ought to make an effort to do something? (for instance, in waking up earlier in order to attend Mass), I mean, plainly speaking, in wrenching your will. You’ve always got the choice. For we’re fated and yet with free-will; remember that “We are what we repeatedly do, therefore excellence is not an act, but a habit.” It follows that Christ pours and plunges into your heart only when you give your Love first (and then you receive a much greater “amount” of what you’ve first given; only when you lose your-self, you win your true-self: it’s you who ever makes that decision) , and I deem it only depends on you, not in the angel nor in the demon beside your ear!

Excuse me if my English doesn’t fit here as I’d like to! As you can all guess, I’m Spanish (and proud of it!:D) and I love your language.

Thanks!👍
God bless ye 🙂
Our thoughts do come from multifarious things, namely our circumstances, our genes, our psychology, our family, what we are studying, our job, our relationships… but there among them all and deeper are you. Remember that you are an “unitas multiplex”; thus matter, thought and spirit play their role but being part of one nature, that is, the “I”.
 
That’s correct, our thoughts are not our own, but the product of Satan or the Holy Spirit! Contemplate the implications! The best we can do is to be righteous in discerning the thoughts implanted by the Holy Spirit and clutch onto them while ignoring those thoughts and desires brought about by Satan! Again, contemplate that we are not who we think we are, but a mere byproduct of Satan, the Holy Spirit, or a cross-product of both!

With faith and prayer the temptations (implanted thoughts and activation of desires) of Satan will be minimized and the Holy Spirit will rule Supreme!

What I’m saying here is implicit in the Catholic faith. Bringing it to our attention is to take what is implicit and make it explicit.
I will add my voice to those who disagree. Our thoughts come from within us, although they can be affected or swayed by “outside” influences. This idea brings to mind the cartoons from my childhood which showed an angel whispering in one ear of the character and a little devil in the other. Which one will they listen to? But there is a big difference between being influenced to think and do good or evil and having your thought controlled.

And not all our thoughts are necessarily about choices. I could see a majestic redwood and think, “wow, that is a tall tree.” From where did that thought come, Satan or the Holy Spirit? Or is it only some thoughts you think are controlled and not our own?
 
Aaahhhh…no.

This is along the lines of Luther’s metaphor of the horse, where we are the horse that is ridden, sometimes by God, and sometimes by Satan, and the two fight for control of us.
This is erroneous.

Also makes it possible for us to rationalize failure to strive for perfection, contrary to Jesus’ command that we be perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect.

Also contains hints of the Protestant idea that the Blood of Christ only covers us, while we are still filthy and disgusting underneath.

Also ignores the other two sources of temptation, namely, the world and the flesh.
If you listen to what I’m saying you should take it as “common sense.” Yes, I’m saying that both God and Satan are fighting for our soul, but that we have free will in which thoughts we are going to entertain and follow.

When we come to Christ later in life, we are indeed filthy dirty with all the evil thoughts of Satan. We must confess these sins and work toward purification.

Satan indeed uses temptation of the flesh and that of the world, tempting us to worship the evil thoughts and desires he has planted in us.
 
Excuse me, but I having trouble addressing everyone’s post, as I would like. For those of you that I miss, please read my comments to others, as the comments will likely be germane to more than one post.
 
That’s correct, our thoughts are not our own, but the product of Satan or the Holy Spirit! Contemplate the implications! The best we can do is to be righteous in discerning the thoughts implanted by the Holy Spirit and clutch onto them while ignoring those thoughts and desires brought about by Satan! Again, contemplate that we are not who we think we are, but a mere byproduct of Satan, the Holy Spirit, or a cross-product of both!

With faith and prayer the temptations (implanted thoughts and activation of desires) of Satan will be minimized and the Holy Spirit will rule Supreme!

What I’m saying here is implicit in the Catholic faith. Bringing it to our attention is to take what is implicit and make it explicit.
Yes, according to our Lord’s words evil resides in every man’s heart, but with our freewill we can choose to contain it rather than let it out.

**“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:”
(Matthew 15:19 KJV)

Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.
(Proverbs 4:23 NIV)

So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
(James 4:7 NLT)**
 
Lock me in an asylum, and throw away the key!🙂

(I’m really outnumbered here, but that does not mean I’m not correct. “Like sheep without a shepherd,” you guys have been led astray!)
 
Throw me in an asylum, and throw away the key!🙂

(I’m really outnumbered here, but that does not mean I’m not correct. “Like sheep without a shepherd,” you guys have been led astray!)
I said you were correct and backed it up with scripture. 🙂
 
Yes, I’m saying that both God and Satan are fighting for our soul
Let’s get it straight:

First there’s Good
Then there’s evil
And then there is a spiritual warfare between Good and evil in which you take part; for evil is Good bent.

Now… Having God created evil, and being evil a “thing” that always nourishes from Good, what need will God have to struggle with something that He Himself has created? I would rather believe that He created us not to fight for us with evil (there’s no such a need; He can overcome evil just when He wills) but that He created us to show is eternal Beauty, and thus, breaking our hearts, give us the strength for fighting.
 
Let’s get it straight:

First there’s Good
Then there’s evil
And then there is a spiritual warfare between Good and evil in which you take part; for evil is Good bent.

Now… Having God created evil, and being evil a “thing” that always nourishes from Good, what need will God have to struggle with something that He Himself has created? I would rather believe that He created us not to fight for us with evil (there’s no such a need; He can overcome evil just when He wills) but that He created us to show is eternal Beauty, and thus, breaking our hearts, give us the strength for fighting.
I think I agree with most of what you said, but I believe the “battle” is that God wants us to reject what is evil (evil thoughts and desires), and choose what is “Good.” This is the process (battle) of purification, here in this world.
 
Yes, according to our Lord’s words evil resides in every man’s heart, but with our freewill we can choose to contain it rather than let it out.

**“For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:”
(Matthew 15:19 KJV)

Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life.
(Proverbs 4:23 NIV)

So humble yourselves before God. Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.
(James 4:7 NLT)**
👍 like it.
 
Nothing is known that did not come from Satan or the Holy Spirit, this includes ALL earthly knowledge. Contemplate the implications!!!
 
Nothing is known that did not come from Satan or the Holy Spirit, this includes ALL earthly knowledge. Contemplate the implications!!!
This is the most ironic statement I have seen yet and back it up with numerous of the most anti-philosophical posts on this thread, I can only say this whole discussion is the worst example I’ve expected from ‘spiritual’ Catholics.

Are you aware that the act of choosing is a thought in of itself? So hence, if such an act belonged to another entity, then it’s not ours. Autonomy is a myth and our salvation is dependent on outside forces rather than a decision that is our own.

You cannot say that my thoughts are controlled yet claim that free will, which is a thought in of itself, still isn’t. Furthermore, to attribute people’s thoughts entirely to outside forces strips them of accountability.

“I raped a 13-year-old girl because I was possessed!”
“He blew himself up because Allah told him to!”

You sir are presenting the line of thinking responsible for the erroneous (if not blasphemous) caricatures secularists and liberals concoct about religion.

Over a hundred years ago man learned how to make dynamite. His original intention for its use was solely for the mine and the quarry. In fact, his invention succeeded and many placed orders for it.

He did not foresee that it would also be used to make bombs and cause the deaths of many.

Over a thousand years ago, man learned how to craft knives and spears from mere rock. Such weapons were originally intended to aid man in the hunt of woolly mammoths and in defense against sabre-toothed smilodons. In fact, they did just that.

Decades later it was used against man himself by other men. The hunting tools became the first weapons of war.

When men first discovered medicine, they enhanced the quality of life. Such healing power however, prompted men to fight and wage war over its supplies.

And let’s not just stop at scientific endeavor, let’s throw religion in as well.

In the early days of the Church, when Christians just began its mission of evangelizing, they believed they were preaching a message of love and hope.

Fast forward to the start of the 19th century that same religion was now being used to justify imperialism in Europe’s colonies of Asia, Africa as well as North and South America. I myself, despite being a conservative Catholic Filipino, will never forget the atrocities committed by corrupt Spanish friars and how it was through the manipulation of a pro-Spanish bishop who ensured the execution of our national hero.

All I’ve presented to you are thoughts. Inventions were conceived with only the good in mind. They did not foresee how they can be put to use in evil ways. Strangely enough however, the good in which they were originally intended for truly did deliver. Dynamite did make rock mining easier; the first knives and spears did ensure the survival of early man; and medicine really did save many ailing brothers and sisters from the clutches of death.

In that regard, you claim the thoughts conceived were of the Holy Spirit. However, what about during times when they were used in the service of evil? Has it all of a sudden became a product of the devil and we should thus, shun it?

Here is were your faux-spiritual dichotomy breaks apart.

Our thoughts are ours and ours alone. They can be influenced. They can be tempted. However, the decision to control them is a thought in of itself. It is autonomy. It is controlled by neither Holy Spirit or the Devil.

It is Man’s.

Tis truly ironic for you to implore people to ‘contemplate’ yet claim that it’s either the Holy Spirit or the Devil doing the contemplating for us. :rolleyes:
 
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