Outrage over John Wayne interview

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There’s enough evidence out there that Wayne held some racist views. I guess how I’d view it is whether or not they were views out of step for the time. Wayne was certainly not a white supremacist in any way we define the term, and he certainly didn’t seem to view African Americans and native peoples as inherently inferior; he just happened to think his culture was superior. I guess one might call them Eurocentric Supremacy, but let’s be honest, most of us here hold those views to one extent or another. I certainly view China in a dimmer light than, say, Poland or Italy. It’s not that I think Poles and Italians are somehow superior, I just think, culturally, they match my own beliefs on how society should work more than the Chinese system.
 
gracepoole said:
And no one needs to stop watching John Wayne’s films because he was a white nationalist.
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Do you really think that of him? “White Nationalism” is generally understood as being a conviction that certain nations ought to be composed of whites only, usually based on some notion of inherent superiority. Wayne was talking about the inferior education blacks were getting at the time; something that can’t be reasonably denied. Apparently he was not asked about exceptional people or those who got better educations than the still-largely-segregated education available to blacks at the time. If he was, it’s not part of what’s quoted.

Wayne himself was married to a woman of Mexican extraction at his death, and had been married to two Latinas before that. His children would be of “mixed ancestry”. I think “white nationalist” is excessive.
 
It’s worse than excessive. I think it’s completely inaccurate. It’s taking a statement out of any kind of context. I imagine Wayne would have had no time for the sorts of “White Nationalists”, and yes, he clearly had no issue with Latin Americans, which would put him sharply at odds with some “White Nationalists”.
 
Ridgerunner said:
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gracepoole:
And no one needs to stop watching John Wayne’s films because he was a white nationalist.
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Do you really think that of him? “White Nationalism” is generally understood as being a conviction that certain nations ought to be composed of whites only, usually based on some notion of inherent superiority. Wayne was talking about the inferior education blacks were getting at the time; something that can’t be reasonably denied. Apparently he was not asked about exceptional people or those who got better educations than the still-largely-segregated education available to blacks at the time. If he was, it’s not part of what’s quoted.

Wayne himself was married to a woman of Mexican extraction at his death, and had been married to two Latinas before that. His children would be of “mixed ancestry”. I think “white nationalist” is excessive.
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Use whatever term you like. The point is that his views of whites and blacks should not keep audiences from seeing his films.
 
In the end, I certainly admire anyone who has never had a racist idea, never said anything that could be construed as racist but I do believe many of us have probably done or thought something at one time that could be seen as racist, bigoted, homophobic, Islamophobic and so on.
 
Victoria33 said:
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gracepoole:
Use whatever term you like. The point is that his views of whites and blacks should not keep audiences from seeing his films.
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Okay, we’ll use any terms we like. Such a description as you posted may as well be Orwellian, Stalinist, progressive, presumptuous and/or politically correct. So, we all can use terms.
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What the what? The antagonism is unnecessary. If you find fault with the term I used and wish to correct it, great! I’m actually okay with being corrected.

I’m less okay with snarkiness for snarkiness’ sake.
 
It’s not being snarky, asserting “white nationalists” from 50 years ago just does not seem appropriate. I don’t know if they existed, I do know that such extreme racist groups did exist back then, very clearly but to assert such because a school system was known to serve whites better from my understanding, does not seem proper.
Stalinism, authoritarian, totalitarian, many definitions. Such a judgement seemed rather harsh.
the communistic theories and practices developed by Joseph Stalin from Marxism and Leninism, especially his development of the cult of the individual with himself at its center, his advocacy of national revolution_, and his extensive use of secret police and slave-labor camps to reduce opposition._
Stalinism - definition of Stalinism by The Free Dictionary

Orwellian,
“Orwellian” is an adjective describing the situation, idea, or societal condition that George Orwell identified as being destructive to the welfare of a free and open society. It connotes an attitude and a policy of control by propaganda, surveillance, misinformation, denial of truth, and manipulation of the past, including the “unperson” — a person whose past existence is expunged from the public record and memory, practiced by modern repressive governments.
Orwellian - Definition and Examples
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The definitions are lengthy but I find it troubling to judge others on so little evidence, not taking into considerations, the culture, the time, the social mores to just all of a sudden, declare someone a white nationalist.
 
gracepoole said:
Sure. But often a mistaken assumption is made that it’s either/or: either we uphold strong values and principles or we cling to myth. T
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Very nice post. But I would say that your teaching goes far beyond the veneer of mythos raises the important issues. Of course we don’t want to burn the books. But neither should the mendacity of the invaders go without critical comment. Neither should there be all the wailing about departing from the mythos and exploring the issues more critically.

In the end, that may mean a shift in who and what we memorialize. I don’t see that as a problem. I think we can be fearless in the pursuit of truth, no matter where it takes us.
 
Ridgerunner said:
Wayne was talking about the inferior education blacks were getting at the time;
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That is spin of whiplash proportions.
The quote above is this:
“I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility”

He specifically endorses " White supremacy".
His discussion of education suggests that blacks are have no reached a “point of responsibility”.
Clearly that goes far,far beyond saying that the education received by blacks is inferior.
 
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That’s great but as I already noted, I’m fine with replacing the term I used. So there’s absolutely no need to describe anything I’ve said as Orwellian or Stalinist. In light of my overall comments here, these terms are both unnecessary and irrelevant.
 
The Searchers is one of my favorite John Wayne films. There is definitely some dialogue in the film that would not be used
in today’s cinema.
John Wayne no doubt grew up hearing stories from his Mother or Father or grandparents about life in the Old West. I know I did growing up in Kansas. In some areas of western Kansas you can still see the tracks left by the wagon trains.
He was from a different era and was a legend in Western cinema. But the liberals
are happy to destroy any legends whether they are related to FOX news, the Civil War,
the Old West or any historical figure associated with the discovery of any new lands from the 15th century onward.
 
dvdjs said:
That is spin of whiplash proportions.
The quote above is this:
“I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility”

He specifically endorses " White supremacy".
He discussion of education suggests that blacks are have no reached a “point of responsibility”.
Clearly that goes far,far beyond saying that the education received by blacks is inferior.
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This calls one to wonder about the exact context, I have it here, it is a printed version on the Virginia.Edu site… still… I won’t link. What is he talking about then? To some of us, it is about taking something out of context. No graphics, just the printed interview is what I’m reading.
PLAYBOY: Angela Davis claims that those who would revoke her teaching credentials on ideological grounds are actually discriminating against her because she’s black. Do you think there’s any truth in that?

WAYNE: With a lot of blacks, there’s quite a bit of resentment along with their dissent, and possibly rightfully so. But we can’t all of a sudden get down on our knees and turn everything over to the leadership of the blacks. I believe in white supremacy until the blacks are educated to a point of responsibility. I don’t believe in giving authority and positions of leadership and judgment to irresponsible people.

PLAYBOY: Are you equipped to judge which blacks are irresponsible and which of their leaders inexperienced?

WAYNE: It’s not my judgment. The academic community has developed certain tests that determine whether the blacks are sufficiently equipped scholastically. But some blacks have tried to force the issue and enter college when they haven’t passed the tests and don’t have the requisite background.
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Just go to bing.com and search for 1970 john wayne interview playboy and one should be able to find it. I don’t know if it is proper to link to this even though, my link is to virginia.edu

So often we hear something like such and such a person actually means this when they said that and so on and it’s not hard to see who I mean, our leaders, past and present.

There are people right now, who say, we owe Europe and the British Empire for our form of government. Then, they can take into all kinds of directions on that. If one has heard people say this, perhaps, it’s a form of a bit of what John Wayne was saying.

Say, our form of a Democracy or a Republic versus what is in a lot of the rest of the world, even the Americas.
 
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Thank you for the more extended quote.
I am not sure that there is anything in that extended quote that is exculpatory.
 
dvdjs said:
Thank you for the more extended quote.
I am not sure that there is anything in that extended quote that is exculpatory.
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And I don’t know if there is anything there that needs to be excused. It’s about a different time, taking things out of context.

I could say in turn, this could seem fearsome and something like what the Communist Secret Police did,

en.wikipedia.org

Stasi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

In a sort of hunting down of thought crimes, it’s almost terrifying that innocent appearing statements to some are what others could use 50 years later to impugn someone.

People are imprisoned in some totalitarian states over things like this.
 
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One can easily way Wayne is talking about the educational system, the social malaise of the time.

The article infers that during those troubled times, one group wanted power at the time, Wayne seems to say, you get that power by being educated better. No more and no less.
 
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